Guide?

[crown]

I’ve been having a recurring discussion with a friend of mine about our personal approaches to Ayahuasca (we are both independent drinkers) and thoughts on individuals gaining instruction through traditional spiritual frameworks using this sacrament, both shamanic and syncretic, and I’d like to hear some perspectives from members of this forum.

As independent drinkers, in most cases we are not operating within an established or prescribed model, and there are both concerns and benefits here. One practicing in this manner, without guidance, may have difficulty perhaps identifying certain astral/psychic/spiritual/physiological processes, and in turn fail to grasp particular concepts of healing and transformation in these ‘realms’. (To offer a personal example, I once found myself undergoing what felt like a physical metamorphosis in which I took on the form of a beast, and opened my eyes to find a pair of curling alien claws where my hands should have been...to this day I do not fully understand why this ‘shapeshifting’ occurred, but had I been studying within any of the shamanic or syncretic disciplines I’m sure I would have been readily offered an explanation in accordance with that system of belief, or not.) On the other hand, I suspect -dare I say believe- we are all in some way connected with the mythic ground from which these different frameworks evolve and do not necessarily require a system to dictate reasons or purpose. However, many feel that they do.

I have never had the opportunity to partake in these different contexts (circle, religious, shaman guided), but I tend to think I am much more prepared to do so having explored the madness and ecstasy without any guidance or influence to color the journey. I know there are surely arguments for this being an unhealthy and perhaps dangerous approach, but in my case I think it was the ideal approach..So, how did you go about it? Are you pursuing a teacher or guide? Why? Why not?

Peace.

[sidecross]

Guides from other cultures have linguistic views that may or may not correspond with our linguistic view.

Even with the same linguistic culture, two people expressing ideas can have complete breakdowns in what they thought each had understood.

Concerning which is better, the issue that is raised has no definitive answer; what is left is a subjective view.

Obviously this issue is immense and one could spend life times pondering it.

[crown]

"what is left is a subjective view"

That's precisely what I was asking for, your subjective view.

[sidecross]

I have not used a guru, a shaman, never bothered to go past high school, and did not belong to any organization other than a labor union.

My views carry as much weight as the gravity of the situation warrants, and in this case not much.

[Danila]

Crown, I have been pondering the same issue for years now.
Once my friend told me to read Carlos Castaneda. I called him after reading a few chapters. He listened carefully to my excited ramblings and said: "Remember, it is just a book."
While reading Daniel's book (the part about the two snakes that told everyone that they were the Gods of the Universe), I started thinking about the degree of error in my own experiences. I guess I will never know.
It sure would be nice to have a teacher, but I should be able to survive without one. I think.
Actually, I have been searching (well, keeping an eye out) for a teacher and until a few months ago had no success. This summer I was in Alaska where I had a lucid dream in which I met my teacher. I only remember his middle name. He is Russian. Looks and acts like a dirty drunken bum. Threw his own excrements at me. Nice stuff, huh?
Yeah, might as well hack at it myself.
And there definitely are benefits to doing your own thing. For example, I play chess. I have played chess for many years and have never read a book on how to play. It is a disadvantage, because in developing strategy and tactics I have to re-invent the bicycle. However, unless I am playing against a master, most people do not have a chance with me, because my openings are unorthodox, unpredictable and don't have an antidote from some chess manual.
Yeah...
Peace.

[crown]

Thanks D.

One very important lesson I have learned from Ayahuasca is that this brew has the habit of tickling one’s ears. One of Prof. Shanon’s informants had aptly titled the brew “the worst of liars”, and this is something very important to recognize when approaching Ayahuasca (and many other Power Plants); it retains the power to catalyze your beliefs, or just as easily destroy them.

Until I can successfully keep a foot in both worlds, there's going to be a dismemberment each time in order to expunge that which I have granted complacency and the contexts I have forced upon it, something it appears I need to learn over and over. It's becoming a bit of a game.

[ September 24, 2003, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: crown ]

[daniel]

crown,

I would definitely recommend at least experiencing a few sessions with a rainforest shaman, to get a sense of what and why they do what they do. Everyone has their own path so this is not proscribed. ... However, if you are already experiencing animal transformation you might want to connect with somone from an ancient lineage. I think the chess master analogy is a decent one. You wouldn't want to turn into a hawk and then find you didn't know the necessary skill to turn back into a man, or perhaps you would?