Hallucinogens/chakras/occult theories and kundalini

[hiosoy]

Hey, I just found this website which tries to explain what psychedelics do in accordance with occult and yogi ideology. The second site mentions how it can lead to psychosis if the chakras are displaced too much and can't return to normal. Wondering your theories of lasting effects if this is all true, and how to keep healthy, any of you who are well versed in chakra energizing.

http://www.deoxy.org/psyguide.htm

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/12082

[CASPER 1]

What's up Hiosoy?The second link was a great read.I find much truth in it.I find though that I was born with the effects said to be caused by long term use of drugs.Maybe it's something in my genes that has been passed since ancient days.I believe that I am of Maya descendance being that I am from Guatemala.So I think the effects have less potential for harm in me unless of course I abuse which is bad because then I,m beeing GREEDY which is something that can cause damage to proper evolution.As for feeling spaced out or not completely in touch with reality,I have always felt that way,What would have been reality anyway if not individual experience before the establishment of a standardized society which is too fast for it's own good,powered by greed ignorance,and many other distractions.There would then have been a standardized society based on universal truth that would have greatly aided the proper evolution of the spirits and cosmos.I'ts all art language and music.
God being the high chief,master artist,musician,CREATOR,even of other gods,of positive and negative.Negativity not necessarily meaning bad unless used for bad which has ties to selfishness and greed.Negativity can also have positive output.On earth,males represent positive force and women,negative force.None better than the other just different,within the same absolute reality.In the eyes of God both are equally strong.There is only ONE dominance and it belongs to no one on any material plane.Some say men are the dominent race because we are physically stronger than women,some say we are even smarter.I don't believe in that.There are ignorant men and women whom are ignorant.None to be hated though, because they are victims of interrupted evolution of spirituality.
THE 5TH SUN WILL SET!!!PEACE!!!

[CASPER 1]

By the way thank you for the links YOSOY!I could only get into the second one though.As for my reply,it is only an opinion influenced by my reality.Though I take my beliefs seriously I am also a clown.Love to joke around with my freinds.Afterall laughter is good.I am still young and I am also a city resident.I guess that's the American in me!Peace!!!

[hiosoy]

Hey Casper no problem, That's a wierd way of using negativity, through me off, that's why I generally think of it in as the yin and yang symbol. And I pity the fool that takes anything to seriously, ANYTHING, no good. I've learnt to laugh at most of the bullshit in life, for the stuff too hard for me to laugh at, that's where art and specifically music comes into play.

[David Orange]

to be honest, i don't find much worthwhile in either of the two articles. not that i don't accept the idea of chakras and psychophysical energies; in fact, i do, but...

the shroomery one seems especially egregious...the article purports to tell "THE TRUTH", which immediately sets my b.s. detector into overdrive. then there is the great line at the end: "P.P.P.S:ONE DAY YOU WILL DIE AND SEE THAT I AM RIGHT." ...is the author a serious entheogenic explorer or a 13-year-old fundamentalist christian? At one point the author writes, "This is not my theory or one i have made up, it is the honest truth about drugs"...this coming at the tail end of an article which seems to consist entirely of one person's half-baked speculations. It doesn't help his argument (or revelation of "THE TRUTH"; sorry
:rolleyes: ) that the whole thing is written in one breathless paragraph, complete with misspellings. was the article put there as a joke? it half-reads like the work of some usenet troll.

The other article notes that ecstasy "causes severe nerve damage if taken enough", which immediately clues me in to the fact that it is not particularly well-researched/fact-checked.

The following is certainly not "THE TRUTH", but rather my brief two cents on the matter...different systems, both eastern and western, have different concepts of the chakras and the "meridians", regarding their numbers, placements, pathways, etc. The classical indian yogic system of working with the psychophysical energies most definitely does not equal the chinese systems do not equal the tantric buddhist systems (i mean "equal" in terms of corresponding to one another, & not as any judgement of the respective systems' legitimacy/efficaciousness/accuracy).

In addition, there are differences within these particular broad traditions. Within the chinese system, for example, there are various schools holding forth differing ideas as to the prominence of, location of, and significance of various points and meridians. The western systems all have their differences, as well. The authors of these articles grossly oversimplify and naively attempt to standardize something for which there exists a variety of different, and in many cases conflicting, systems/approaches. Then they discuss vastly different drugs and clumsily attempt to overlay them on top of the authors' rather arbitrarily constructed esoteric mappings.

Yes, there does seem to be a "heart center", and yes, ecstasy would seem to exert significant action there...but to then draw up a list of numerous other compounds and say, "okay, lsd mostly affects this particular chakra or chakras, & this other compound mostly affects this other chakra" seems to reflect more on the individual thinker's idiosyncratic perceptions/speculations then on the actual phenomena at work.

Discussions of "kundalini" energy too often lead to oversimplification: "ya just fire up the old kundalini, and shoot it up through to the crown chakra, and boom! instant enlightenment/union with the godhead/whatever". From my admittedly rather limited knowledge of the different esoteric conceptualizations of energy systems, it's my understanding that there is also energy in the human body which proceeds in a downward direction...and which is also crucial in these matters...Bottom line, is, i think these are very complex systems and concepts, and they are not very adequately dealt with in either of these articles.

[David Orange]

incidentally, hiosoy, in response to your request for posters' input as to whether the chakras can be "displaced too much", or regarding other possible dangers to the psychophysical energy systems through drug use, here is my personal take.

i think the effects of entheogens do in part involve the opening and activation of the chakras or spiritual centers. whereas, traditional non-drug spiritual practices generally work towards encouraging a gradual, gentle opening of these centers and movement of these energies, in contrast, entheogen use tends to be more akin to busting the down the door, so to speak. whether this can cause "permanent damage" or negative lasting effects, i'm afraid i don't really know.

i tend to have doubts regarding the notion of lasting permanent damage to the spiritual centers; providing that your use of drugs is reasonably sane in terms of frequency (to give a rather extreme example, bombarding your system with lsd on a daily basis for several years running might not be such a good idea...particularly depending on your level of psychic strength/resiliency)...but, allowing for the idiosyncrasies of the individual and the particular drugs they are involved with and their patterns of useage, i reckon that it is possible for there to be "imbalances", which though reversible, may be naggingly persistent and take some patience and work to correct.

i imagine that the various traditions' gentle, slow approach to these matters is there for a reason other than an inability to produce quick results. in fact, i think it is not particularly difficult to produce quick results when you start playing around with psychophysical energies; but the trick is to do it in a balanced, grounded manner. so it seems the gentle approach is a wise one.

to wit, i would advise caution in both drug use and esoteric spiritual practices-- go slow, and always take time to integrate your experiences as thoroughly as possible. there is no need to rush. even the so-called "fast paths" to enlightenment, such as vajrayana buddhism, involve lengthy and elaborate preparatory/foundational practices such as the hundred thousand prostrations, prayers, developing the proper mindset. the foundational practices are there for a reason!! not as a sort of "cultic" indoctrination/brainwashing, or to make your guru happy, but rather to prepare and strengthen/purify your body-mind to be able to deal with potentially very powerful energies.

beware of persons or groups offering "quick" or "instant" enlightenment...and don't casually engage in complex yogic breathing exercises, "chakra-energizing" exercises and the like, without doing thorough research, asking plenty of questions, and knowing what you are doing. reading a book and trying out these things without the benefit of guidance from an experienced teacher (preferably a teacher with deep experience in one tradition; not one who has dabbled in a bit of everything, and claims mastery in x,y, and z traditions) is probably not a good idea; nor would i recommend doing practices taught in a "weekend workshop" without the benefit of continued supervision from an experienced person.

apologies if i sound too preachy or pedantic, but i think that many people rush into these things too lightly, and the potential for harm is genuine. the idea is to be sure that your system is capable of handling the amount of energy running through it at any given time, without being overloaded. being overloaded can lead to various kinds of psychic/bodily distress; manifesting as anxiety, spaciness, and so forth. the whole point of these practices is to be happier, calmer, and able to be of greater service to others; not disturbed and at less than full capacity.

drugs can be great, no doubt humans benefit from and have an inherent need to experience different states of consciousness, and it seems apparent that part of humanity's destiny is to explore the hidden and mysterious realms of inner space/hyperspace. but ya gotta keep your feet planted firmly on the ground...respect your body; you're a citizen of the earth, you gotta eat, exercise, rest, earn a livelihood, take care of your loved ones and all that stuff. so go slow, stay grounded, take time to integrate. take care of yourselves. i think it also is worth pointing out that it is of enormous benefit to one's self (and obviously others, as well) if your motivation for entheogenic exploration/spiritual practice of whatever variety, is founded on a sincere, heartfelt desire to help, heal, and benefit all (including yourself), rather than a desire to "get enlightened" or bust open your chakras, raise your kundalini, acquire magical or psychic powers, become lord of hyperspace tongue.gif etc.

[sire_012]

maybe this will help with the original question on this thread

http://www.erowid.org/spirit/yoga/yoga_info1.shtml

i haven't read it yet, but just came across it on another forum i am on. looks like its got some great stuff in it.