QUESTION: sosphisticated machinery

[jezebelle]

I have a place that appears to me from time to time, usually when I am waking up. No drugs were injested previously. In fact, I'm a light weight, some mushrooms and weed when I was in my twenties. I'm in my 50's. (I would say my dreams are more interesting) It is a scene of machines, of incredible complexity that almost look like they evolve or at least are very busy transforming. The matrix looks simplistic, comparitivley. Is this the machine elvens, everyone keeps talking about?
I've also gotten symbols stream into me, that were understood by me, but as I awoke further, I could not understand the information. Anyone get this? I guess everyone sees their own symbols, since I am creating my hologram. Thank you beautiful explorers for being here, I love this forum.

[daniel]

hi jezebelle,

I suspect that DMT / 5-meo-DMT are very related to different sleep/dream states, so it may well be that you are seeing something related. I sometimes wake up in such a "matrix" myself, and when i do, I try to stay in it/explore the space as long as possible.

[Halfglass]

Jezebelle: What you describ, yes, I instantly thought, "Maybe we're all coming into seeing this Place." Machines made of organic/metal...green or blue plastic/plasma "devices?" Silver-fire machines? I've seen these living "appliances" with other "things" seemingly at the "controls." I've even had them explained to me to some degree that I can't be certain of (all lost, like looking for the alphabet in crop circles). I was "told" once that I would be able to give 'em a try some day. (Unlike you though, there was alot of chemical involved!) Oh and the symbols...I've seen The Ceiling of Medallions. (On DXM.) It was a vaulted area...I've gotta try smoking DMT just once. I'm certain it's the same Place.

[ November 13, 2003, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Halfglass ]

[jezebelle]

Halfglass/Daniel
Way cool, the trick is to be conscious of the experience. Who is to say what a machine really is? Here in this dense soup, its plastic and metal. I mean blood vessels are pretty plastic. Sentient consciousness can occupy any intersection of merging systems. Just think of our carbon based units, the rubberband of occupancy is very wide and far. Thank god we have the animal componet to keep us anchored so we can relate to the diversity, and communicate. I love the book "Nothing in this Book is Real, but its the Way It Is," we are the result of a rip the time-level continuum and we got exposed to an ego ray too soon (I am paraphrasing big time) hense our present state of affairs. But the seed has to be planted in the dark before it can sprout. I sometimes think that we are the lost emanations of the Hierachie(s) still unclaimed as it first entered inert matter. Once in and the job started, it then can now bring home (back to a state of oneness) it's pieces from the initial bang. (Hense the story of Isis). The point of it all is to create new life.

[dragonfly]

Originally posted by jezebelle:
I have a place that appears to me from time to time, usually when I am waking up ... It is a scene of machines, of incredible complexity that almost look like they evolve or at least are very busy transforming.Molecular consciousness, perhap?

[jezebelle]

I don't think there can be matter without spirit. In astrology, spirit enters the portal of 4 (cancer for any astrology people) and it becomes matter.
In "Forest Visions," a book about a bunch of people experienced in the taking of The Vine, live there and formed a church. They are there to help people with "end times" and are lead by experinced healers who started it. They claim there are many senerios as to why evil is attaches itself to an individual. One thing that I thought was interesting. Evil beings become attached to you (of course one allows this to happen) because along with your transformation, it has the opportunity to transmute too.
If you read Rudolf Steiner you would learn that we are sort of being pulled all the time in 4 directions by 4 major groups. It's sort like being in an airplane that must stay centered while the up, down, left, right pulls are acting on you all the time and still fly. I think we as adventurers have come to this dense arena to manifest love and change the vibe. How well we do this is the great struggle of life.

[jezebelle]

Halfglass (I love hearing of your adventures)
Opposite the Ceiling of Medallions, I am reminded of a very powerful dream that seemed more real than reality, that was in a cave. The voice that was narrating, was me (I knew) but at the same time I was a character there. The voice was sort of streaming continuously almost toning and very soothing. The cave was full of designs yet the designs were carved from natual rock and very sharp. I was shone the floor where my pattern was. Then somehow I was forced to run my finger over every sharp protusion of the pattern. It was very painful. I bled but told not to worry because the melodious voice was me, but that I had to relive all pain I had ever caused. I could only take so much and woke up exhaused and somewhat freaked.
I guess I have issues about being "here."
Since I am sharing, when I was an infant I have a memory of being angry about being born. I used to think this was weird but I hear this experience is so typical in india, that they have a word for it. Don't ask me what it is. I cried, my mother came to comfort me, but I didn't want food or whatever. I just kept crying mad.
I told my father about this and even discribed the room. It was a house they had lived in for a short while, before the current home, he was amazed.
I think it's interesting that dreams have a chemical component (DMT / 5-meo-DMT).

[Halfglass]

Jezebelle: "...(We are) the lost emanations of the Hierachie(s) still unclaimed...." I'm straight down that line of thinking. That we must be sort of, Probes, sent out or through the Back of Reality by the It Under. We are the It, somehow (and for some reason!) detached from itself and it's purpose for expression. (Although I have a hunch that the reason might simply be, because It could!)

[Scylla]

I recently read Daniel’s book and enjoyed all of it, but my primary reason for being so
curious was for the same reason thatI often
read the accounts of psychonauts on the web,
Terence McKenna, etc. I am always looking for a similarity between the experiences of others
and my own. Mine started many years ago when I did TM training. After meditating
for 20 minutes, I walked out onto Central Park West and into a world of supernal
beauty. I lived in this state of consciousness for 3 months and then one night it
was gone. This started me on 5-6 years of reading metaphysical books and then
I went on a fast for 25 days or so and being incredibly stupid, I took 5 tabs of cherry
acid on the first day. I then entered into an altered state that lasted one year. I
lost my apartment, lived for 11 months in the Chelsea Hotel in Manhattan where I
experienced a constant array of voices, visions, information, as well as the company
of my mother and former husband, both of whom had been dead for many years.
During this time I had telepathic communication with plants, animals, trees in
the park, etc. After this I felt a deperate need to find a spiritual path to follow.
Finally, after figuring it would never happen, I found the one that called to me the first time
I encountered it; a little-known 4-year program of study and psychic development which developed spiritual healers : the Spiritual Science Center of New York.
We studied Eastern and Western teachings, Rudolf Steiner etc., and our teachers in psychic development were guides on the astral plane who conducted the procedures and communicated with us with messages which we learned to interpret. When I was pretty desperate to find a job at the end of this study, I was guided to the first psychic telephone line in New York where I worked
for 2 years until they closed. There and on other lines I have done over 11,000 readings, often using the concepts of spiritual healing. For years I have had guides on the astral plane, no clowns or machinery, but loving presences
who speak telepathically or send a visual symbol or dream to let me know that they are there to guide and protect me and they Always come through.
I’ve had experiences that I don’t ever mention as I figure no one would
believe them...or else that devotees of this forum might respond with
“We’re psychonauts, but you’re crazy.” As I read Daniel’s book I kept
looking for what to me is the real goal of “breaking open the head,”
(which I believe is what happened to me due to the fast and the acid)
i.e., the realization of the reality of spirit and the desire to pursue the
Way, whatever it entails. At almost the end of Daniel’s book, I came
upon the following quote and thought aah! he got it:
“Yes it is ridiculous, but here it is: I have had the classic spiritual awakening, catalyzed
by use of psychedelics... I have become a “crazy fool,” one of “them,” the ones who have been discarded by this world, whose visions are greeted with mockery, dismissal, or fear. And I am much happier for it.”

[jezebelle]

scylla says,"I’ve had experiences that I don’t ever mention as I figure no one would believe them"

It's scary opening up to the world, but try me, I would love to hear more, or even the most vivid. Many have a few "no one would believe" stories and it's important to share. You have gone through the fire and found a way to ground your lucidness, thereby being useful to the rest of us. I think that its people like you that help the rest of us to advance. The mainstream exists in the rubberband and the brave few stretch outward, so that the rest may follow. love, love!

[Charlie]

Originally posted by Scylla:
After meditating for 20 minutes, I walked out onto Central Park West and into a world of supernal beauty. I lived in this state of consciousness for 3 months and then one night it was gone.”Sounds like you had an experience of Kensho--the initial breakthrough of Zen enlightenment. I would guess you stopped meditating, or had no teacher to show you how to develop and integrate the experience into your daily life, so it just faded away with time...

I too would be interested to hear about any fringe experiences you lived through--not only Daniel Pinchbeck went to the "other side" and lived to tell about it. Many people reading and contributing to this forum have had supernatural experiences.

[daniel]

Scylla,

Thanks for your post - it sounds like you've had quite a ride.

Was the beauty you experienced during your illumination completely connected to the physical world, or somehow detached or outside of it?

I feel like I have been in similar states - actually, despite all sorts of typical aggravating experiences recently, I have maintained more or less of my equanimity, and even at times a kind of blissful centeredness.

[Scylla]

This was a wonderful gift to find these responses from Jezebel, Charlie, Daniel. There
are “guides” when you least expect them. Charlie, I have never known exactly what
that ecstatic 3 months was--I thought it was related to some Zen experience..but
what you have said answers the question. And, yes, I had no teacher or structure
at all at that time...if I had had some guidance...I might have avoided the terrible
experience of going into that altered state that literally left me completely lost
in, what one friend later called “the bardo” for one year. This, after the fast
and the acid. On the other hand, the experience during that year, as destructive
to my life as it was, led to all the rest, including the years in Spiritual Science
which was the greatest thing that ever happened to me and finally I’m grateful
for it all. Daniel: your question about whether that ecstatic experience was
in or out of Nature...it Was nature. I remember that all the sounds of traffic
in the street seemed muted, soft and pleasant, and sunlight, moonlight,
just walking down the street..or coming upon a city garden with flowers
and plants...was like a trip through paradise. There was no “information”
coming in...just this glowing joyous presence. I remember thinking of a
Zen saying I had read: “Zen is a finger pointing to the moon, but
it’s not the moon.” At one point I thought: THIS is the moon!.
One experience that I rarely ever talk about (except in poems--you
can say Anything in poetry and people accept it) and which has happened
several times, is having sexual experience with a friend who had recently
died, later with a man in California who could leave his body at will and
showed up in my bed one night, and with a man I had lived with for 12
years who had gone to live in Oregon and I guess he missed me one
night because I suddenly felt ecstatic waves of desire and we had
one last dance.
I don’t mean that the person appears in his body...it’s more as though
he and I were together in My body....my right hand was his hand, etc.
and we talked with each other too. I am devoted to the Path I found,
which goes back to the Spiritualism of long ago, is certainly not for
many people, but I think we all are destined for different roads to
the mountaintop--as Joseph Campbell said: all the paths are just
“different kinds of software.”

[jezebelle]

Scylla
Actually your experience is sort of similar to Hank Wesselman the author of Medicinemaker, Spiritwalker, Visionseeker, where he is occupied by a future self in the present and visa-versa and everybody is aware of each other in their bodies.
I had a friend who after injesting psychedelics, thought of an old friend and he materialized in front of him to chat.
Visiting a wiccan friend to celebrate the summer equonix, I injested mushrooms (after 30 years) and was hoping to meet a fairy or at least an elf or talk to a tree. Instead I was embodied by the earth/hindu/mary mother archetype herself and enjoyed looking at humans and their frailities, and nature from this human's side. As myself I saw how any personal power was really the result of this female's conection (me) to the archetype. Also, having driven (automobile-don't ask why) all the lights were green wherever I went, which was amazing if you knew the roads. This gift was to help the logical side of me see the power. As that experience ebbed away, I felt the fear of others and the impinging dark forces it brought. But I was not afraid, because by remaining still, including speaking, it dissapated, I found a statement that I think is true after this experience: "language is a virus from outerspace."