Astral Plane?

[Nicole]

Hi everyone.

You might remember me as the skeptical, rational person that underwent a rather powerful spiritual transformation back in January. The whole year has been filled with discoveries and experiences of gnosis.

More weird experiences have been happening.

About a week and a half ago, I had an extremely realistic dream that I was being pushed up my wall, up, up, up to the ceiling. It was actually kind of frightening, as I'm scared of heights.

Then, two nights ago, I had a similar dream. I was floating above my bed. I kept trying to grip the bed with my hands, but to no avail. I just floated up to the ceiling again. I became lucid at that point and thought, 'This is only a dream. It isn't real.' Then, to check, I reached out to touch the walls and ceiling and found they felt *completely* real. The tactile, sensory quality of the experience was exactly like "reality." At that point, water gushed out from the top of my head. (I know enough to realize that has some spiritual symbolic meaning, but exactly what I'm not sure.)

I began researching this, and found that such dreams are very common before one has an out-of-body experience. A website also listed several other "symptoms", many of which I have. One was "spinning sensations." This happens lately when I close my eyes sometimes. Sometimes when I have meditated as well. It feels like I'm being sucked into a vortex or a whirlpool. Another symptom was panic attacks. I've never had a panic attack in my life -- up until a couple months ago. Now that I look back on it, it did begin in my sleep. I woke up choking and unable to breathe. The experience was really awful, but I won't go into details. (My resting heart rate was 120 for three days straight.) Finally, a most intriguing symptom is "being able to see with your eyes closed." This is something I have noticed within the past few weeks, and didn't think too much of it beyond the fact that it was weird. I didn't really consider it a "paranormal" experience -- I just chalked it up to the fact that there's lots we still don't know about our brains and our visual systems. But, yes, I can see with my eyes closed sometimes. I've noticed it just after waking up. I'll look over at my nightstand and various objects in the corner of the room,...and then realize my eyes aren't open. Not even a little bit. The single most bizarre thing was when, with my eyes closed, I saw a face next to me. It was my own face, I soon realized. When I moved my head, the face moved its head. When I scrunched up my nose, the face scrunched up its nose. This wasn't a simple mental visualization -- it was like looking in a mirror. I, again, just assumed it was some weird optical illusion or trick of my brain (ever the skeptic).

Then I started doing research on these strange floating dreams and came across information on the astral body. Something in me is convinced this is what happened to me -- my astral body separated from my physical body. I feel stupid even typing that, because I've never believed in such things. "Belief" really becomes irrelevant at such a point, though.

Has anyone ever had similar experiences? Anyone have any information or experiences they'd like to share about the astral plane? I know very little about it -- just what I've managed to uncover briefly online.

For the record, I haven't been using any psychoactive drugs, been meditating only infrequently, and haven't tried to induce this in any way. I didn't even know about it!

Thanks.

[Charlie]

Another symptom was panic attacks. I've never had a panic attack in my life -- up until a couple months ago. Now that I look back on it, it did begin in my sleep. I woke up choking and unable to breathe. Hi, Nicole.

This particular episode sounds like Sleep Paralysis, a scientifically-studied phenomenon. You can take a look here (http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html), or simply google it... a lot of information exists on the subject.

I'm in the midst of reading Robert Moss´ Dreamgates, which explores quite a bit the relationship between the astral plane and dreaming. I know there are a few other board members who've read him as well.

He outlines different techniques (including closed-eye "seeing") to induce the states of consciousness you seem to be experiencing naturally. None of his techniques involve the use of drugs, either. According to Moss (and I would concur), you can utilize the episodes that currently baffle you to access portals of self-discovery.

Don't worry about pre-conceived notions of "rationality" or normalcy. You seem grounded enough to make forays into the void, and then analyse them later on from an objective perspective. I've found that separate worlds should be kept separate, and circumstances carefully controlled. In other words, don't go surfing the astral plane at work, or on the subway.

On a personal note, I had a brief lucid dream about a week ago, the first in several years. It really is difficult afterwards to make a rational determination of what actually occurred--the awake mindstate at the time says Reality, the events taking place says Dream. It seems to be a bridge-point between two worlds.

[ November 21, 2005, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

[Lowlight]

Hey nicole, yes i remember you. You sound like you have been experiencing a lot the last few months,

"Sometimes when I have meditated as well. It feels like I'm being sucked into a vortex or a whirlpool."

Thats really interesting. about a year and a half ago i was staring into a piece of quartz crystal, holding very close to my eye, before i went to bed. I didnt know much about them and had always been sceptical of 'crystal powers' etc. But after a while i put the stone down, and closed my eyes to sleep. Instead of the normal blackness of closing your eyes i was confronted with a kind of smokey whirling hole which seems to be literally pulling my consciousness into it. It felt like i was about to be annihilated. I fought as much as i could and after 5-10 mins it disappeared. It has never happened since when i have done the same kind of thing but i have seen other things like a small shoal of blue eye/fish things which moved around for quite a while then disappeared. Im not sure hwat to make of it to be honest. It all felt like an experience rather than a time of learning etc which i undergo with Salvia and other entheogens. There must be more to it...

Anyway stay grounded and i hope your experiences are good for you.

peace

Lowlight

[Nicole]

Charlie:

Yes, I’m familiar with sleep paralysis. I think it’s one of those things we’ve conveniently labeled a “disorder” that perhaps has a spiritual basis. (Of course, I think everything has a spiritual basis, though!)

If it was just the panic attack (or just the dreams), I think I may have said, ‘Yes, it’s simply sleep paralysis’ and moved on about my business. Until now, in fact, I just chalked the panic attack up to stress and anxiety. But I’m really beginning to suspect it is part of a larger picture. (I’m not even really stressed or anxious about anything. In fact, I feel more calm, grounded, and centered than I ever have in my entire life!)

Thanks for the book reference to Dreamgates. I’ll have to check it out.

It amazes me that people are actually *trying* to have these kinds of experiences. But yeah, I do have the intuition that something is working here that could lead to insight, self-discovery, etc. And don’t worry – I won’t go “surfing the astral plane” in public! I’m not sure I’m even ready to do it in my sleep yet! I suppose that’s probably why I had the panic attack. Instead of trying to have these experiences, I was simply pulled into them. I imagine I panicked about something for which I was not ready.

Lowlight:

Yes, I have been experiencing a lot! It’s very strange, because it has happened all spontaneously. Odd that you fought the spinning vortex feeling -- I’ve actually always kind of enjoyed it. The first time it happened to me was probably 4 or 5 years ago. I closed my eyes to meditate and was *immediately* sucked into that spinning spiral. I thought it was interesting, but I didn’t really connect it with anything “spiritual.” It’s been happening much more frequently lately, though.

I’ve always been skeptical of “crystal powers”, too, but I seem to be hearing a lot about them lately. I remain open-minded. I’ve been proven wrong on many things I was previously skeptical about.

I have been reading some things on spontaneous kundalini awakening. I’m not entirely sure, but I connected with it immediately and feel that perhaps this is what is happening to me. Maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know.

We'll see.

[craazyman]

I've gotten sucked out the bottoms of my legs and wandered around the room and also have had feelings that I'm standing up out of my body at night. Usually there's a buzzing that precedes these experiences. At first, this scared the shale out of me. On few occassions, after I got used to it and stopped panicking, I tried to fly out the window and take an aerial tour of New York, but when I tried to will myself out the window I'd immediately wake up in bed and think, "Sh--t! That didn't work." This is 100% true. I concluded that to make progress I'd have to practice and develop out of body skills, but I am too busy with work to really give it the focus it needs.

On many occassions at night during sleep I've also had the feeling I'm seeing through closed eyes in a half awake/half dream like state. Often I'll see things as they would be, in the dark, at night, etc. and not be sure if I'm perceiving physical reality or dreaming. Although inevitably when I wake up and remember what I saw there will be unambigous distortions that preclude any precise matching with physical reality. But while it's happening it seems quite real.

I've tended to conclude that all of this, for me, is either a 100% dream state or some mixture of a dream and very minor and occassional out of body states.

The test for me would be whether I could bring back from one of these states some memory that would verify that some form of an alert observation took place that would have been impossible during sleep. So far, that has not happened.

[bloofly]

Nicole,
I have had experiences like you describe. Quite a lot of floating up towards the ceiling out out of my room. I've flown around over tree tops. Alot of these dreams were very dark for me. I had a feeling of foreboding and sometimes, that I was being followed by. I eventually confronted this thing that was following me, I don't know if it was my id or an alien being but after I confronted it, I had a hard time having my "out of body" dreams again. I just recently had my first pleasent lucid dream. The strangest one I ever had was when I went through a hole in my ceiling into another universe. I went to a planet where I was sort of initiated into the race of alien beings who were, for my own benefit, human looking. They "enrolled" me in a school for children, which; at their level were kindergarteners but by our standards astronimically more intelligent and metaphysically inclined than the best of us. I asked if I could be put in a more advanced "grade" because of my age and they said, no; "no matter how much you have lived on earth, it doesn't compare with what we can teach you here even at elementry levels." I left the school and darkness invaded the dream. The id was following me, and I had a minor confrontation with it. It was my dead grandfather and when I didn't let the fear overcome me, he turned into a high heel shoe.
I don't know if I have been back to "class" or not. Not lucidly, at least.
I would like to know how the out of body or lucid dreams of others feel. Are they anxious and frightening for anyone else? Do lucid dreams start out that way for people in general? I would like to hear about positive lucid dream experiences and if the people who have positive dream experiences have always had them. I'm also wondering if past life experience, such as being abused, affects how these dreams happen.

[okster]

I don't think I have consciously experienced astral projection. I have always been very interested in it. There are probably tons of books on it by now, but I read a couple of really good ones a long time ago. Both are classics on the subject. In case anyone is interested in them:

The Projection of the Astral Body - Sylvan Muldoon and Herward Carrington (1929)
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0766146049/

Journeys Out of the Body - Robert Monroe (1973)
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0385008619/

I always use Amazon to research books. Lots of interesting reviews there.

One interesting thing I came across long ago is the idea that when you suddenly wake up with a jolt, what is happening is that you were out of your body and something happened to scare you back in and you kind of snapped back in. Supposedly you are always connected by some kind of "cord" and this can be kind of elastic and snap you back in quick. I have experienced this many times.

Oh I wish I could fly!

[silentwolf]

Nicole, I've had experiences very similar to what you described...mostly consciously. I wrote a book on the subject, "Awakening: Theory and Practice for the Aspiring Shaman."

It has been my experience that the spinning/whirlpool effect is due to the structure of your energy sphere, or aura as some people like to call it. Within the center are two intertwined strands that twist both directions at once, and at the northern and southern poles are vortexes where energy is exchanged through the system. When you are unfamiliar with the system and have a spontaneous experience, it is very possible to become disoriented by the spinning ether and feel motion sickness, or like you're spinning without moving.

Seeing with the eyes closed is also not unusual. About 10 years ago, I picked up a book on Ninjutsu, and it had a couple of exercises for doing that, so you could see completely around you at once, even behind you. I feel that you are able to do this by sensing the waves of energy flowing into and away from other objects...this is what most shamans mean when they say "everything has a spirit."

One of the techniques I use to consciously project is to set myself firmly upon the place or person I wish to visit, and then gather a mist of myself there, slowly solidifying myself. When I use this technique, I sense more by what other people present are feeling than I do "seeing" and "hearing." At other times though, I use another technique where I physically lay down, and then spiritually sit up, look around at the room, and walk or fly out. I usually use that technique more when I'm being troubled by a circumstance and I feel motivated to do something about it.

If you start to practice with your energy system, you won't have spontaneous occurences like you described. Try to keep in mind that when you do have a spontaneous occurence like that, the best approach is just to go through it and know that nothing can hurt you, relax and allow the fright to dissipate.

[Kathy]

Hi Nicole and Everyone~

I am new here and found this topic about OBE and the Astral Plane very interesting.

I was looking for information on the Astral Plane and the Crystal City and came across this site from a friend's links. I have worked as a Psychic for 5 years plus used hypnotism which worked great. Seeing passed loved ones for others was the easiest for me to see...until my own father passed away 3 weeks ago. It is very difficult to see through one's own emotions and be psychic.

Two night's ago I hypnotised myself to try and see my father...where he is and how he is doing. Instead I saw a round Colliseum building that looked like something in Las Vegas without all the added glitz. It was all lit up in Blue Lights with a Design of Red Lights. Then I felt as if I were seeing through the eyes of my father standing above and looking down ahead in the distance at a Long White Road that lead to a City. Everything had a white light yet no sun...just white as on a cloudy day but without any darkness. This city seemed like it was in a valley with Skyscrapers and other smaller buildings that were all spread apart. No crowding. Each building had some colored lights. Now I woke myself out of it. I spoke to my friend afterwards and he said it sounded like I may have visited the Astral Plane and the Crystal City. I am open to anything since my logic is that life itself is a miracle and we accept it and dying. I would like to know if anyone here ever saw this place too in a vision. I know I would never see a specific type of city when I am asking to see how my father is doing.It's really the last thing I expected to see so therefore it may be valid.

Am open to your view points.

Thanks,
Kathy

[Dna]

Hi Kathy,

I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your father. Welcome to the forum. I am afraid I don't know much about what you are asking for but I am sure someone here could help.

Best wishes,

Dna.

[Thom]

Kathy, may i also offer my condolences.

I've not had any concious experience of the Crystal city which you mention; if you'd like to share your knowledge of this i'd be very interested.

A dicussion about astral projection is going on here, which you may find useful: http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=7260&sid=20f9e33a1bd5528c7b4d27dc29ebe577

Best wishes,
Thom.

[Kathy]

Thanks for your replies and your kind words of sympathy. Actually I am not certain that what I saw was "Crystal City". If someone saw similar to what I saw then I can confirm it. Everyone has psychic ability which is natural. Some have it more intensely than others and can further it. I am hoping that someone here tried to contact a loved one passed too and saw similar visions. Believe me, seeing as a psychic for oneself can be subjective. It becomes too emotional to be neutral. I'll want to see the best but I am only interested in the truth. Thanks for the link.

Kathy

[liz_46226]

yes. i have have been there on two occasions. it is very foggy in my mind. but it exists. Ask anyone who is draconic by nature. they should have an answer for you. I was simply a visitor. All my friends who project have been there on occasion themselves. i dont remember a dome, but i do recall the light...and that road you were on? you cannot run or skip on it, but you can always rest; it will always lead to the same place no matter what direction you take. does that sound familiar to you? Was there a large body of water? possibly a sea? was there a large crystal dome in the center? if so..then we are speaking of the same place. just remember, same place...possibly different experiences and perspectives. Just one thing...you had a totally different reason for being there than i did. that makes your journey completely your own for interpretation.

[Isaiah Mpski]

Sounds like the house we're building out on Lake Eufaula.;)

And Kathy,what is truth?

You know the truth but you won't let him set you free.