Earth: a rape or plan?

[Halfglass]

Here's a thought. What if--(like the Bible says, "...let them have dominion over all the earth")--the whole trip (of getting to the self-aware "unit" on the surface of the planet), from pre-cambrian till today, was "intended" to be fueled by the earth--the earth as a drone which shoots its load for the furtherance of the self-aware "unit"...to be made possible by the draining of the earths resources? If you take out for, or leave enough (resourses)in the figures, for all that superfluous greed...the end, 2012, the day of reconing etc., might be the only real goal (a race or a gamble that we might merge into a single mind?--or die trying just like any other attempt by any other organism) and our worries about the condition of the planet might be pointless or missplaced. Isn't it odd that there was all these metals in the ground for early cave dwellers to stumble on? (I'm not saying this is what I belive, but I have been giving it some thought lately.) Any thoughts yo?

[Bandolino]

Quite a novel thought. It is strange that we can do science at all. Was it always there, or did we discover it? The earth as a drone that shoots it's load as a means to get the "unit" to a point, where? Something to think about.

[Agent Smith]

not quite so novel. in fact this is the exact world view of those who currently occupy the whitehouse. It's called 'dominionism', and the load they believe the Earth was created to shoot is called 'the rapture'. which is why they are liquidating as much of the Earth's resources as fast as they can, you gotta pay if you wanna ride on the jesusexpress...

...aaaaieeee! :mad: it's too much to take right now! I realize that you're just proposing this as a thought... still, there are people willing to gamble YOUR future on THEIR interpertation of these things... oh, and by the way, YOU aren't invited to their acsension...(neither am I.) :rolleyes:

[Halfglass]

Agent Smith: Point well taken. (I hate them.) But the idea came because this whole story (history) seems too set-up. Caves to the moon in what?--ten thousand years? If consciousness (self-aware) is the purpose, nature (or "gods" way of causing things to move) if you look at it, shoots mega-loads all over the place with 99% of it dieing straight off the bat (no pun intended!). I saw a program the other day where thousands and thousands of baby flamingos had to walk miles from their nests in the African sun to reach a certain lake and they all died slowly with mud caked on their lil' feets. Why should the attempt to get the self-aware being to the next level not be such a shot in the dark like anything else in nature? (Mind you I love the green in the world--I release trapped flys from my windows--but nature has shown it's way of making attempts at new heights and it's always with alot of "waste" (and waste is a concept I think only humans have managed to wrap their minds around.))

[daniel]

Halfglass,

Your idea is, I think, essentially the same as mine. Also McKenna talked about the current situation being like the caterpillar in a cocoon, devouring the entire environment surrounding him in order to morph into a butterfly.

While the headline is the ecological devestation of the planet, the small print is the unification of esoteric systems and spiritual technologies and those nuggets of truly rational and enlightened science. What if utopia and apocalypse arrive together and simultaneously? What if time is simply the medium in which consciousness self-organizes to a higher state, using the material realm as the interface to collect the necessary "sparks" or vibrational frequencies (such as those provided by psychedelics) in order to move into a deeper state of being and knowing? The individual then has the choice of being at the vanguard of this process, or the hapless victim of it.

Islam is a collective experiment in telepathy and collective mind. Six times a day, 1.2 billion people focus their psychic energies at the Ka Ba, a chunk of rock in Saudi Arabia. The "deep cosmology" of Islam is that at the moment of Apocalypse or world transformation, those 1.2 billion will fuse with that rock into a collective God consciousness.

That is their trip, but it is not the Western trip. I don't believe that the development of individual egos was for nothing - I think that we will continue that development on a "higher octave" until and after "2012." However, I think we will be forced to recognize that the Ego or the Self is a more transparent form than the current materialist perspective suspects. After all, God looks out from every pair of eyes, and sees all. I think that the philosophy of the future will be concerned with trying to understand the paradoxical existence of human freedom. Also, I think that the "science" of post-history will be the exploration of paradox (being and nonbeing, time and no-time, etc).

[Buzz]

This is sort of taking up on a discussion in THe Psychedelic Experience topic, "Recent Twistedness" thread. There, Daniel states, "Human Consciousness is in the process of self-organizing to a higher state - a higher state of being and knowing. The destruction and chaos are simply necessary parts of the process - the projection of the "shadow" of the psyche into material form, so it can be reintegrated by those who are ready to make the transition."

I came across something in Peter Russells book, "Waking Up in Time: finding inner peace in times of accelerating change". He is a physicist who studied with Stephen Hawking and received a degree in psychology as well.

Russell writes about the evolution of the planet and life by comparing the different stages to stories in a 108 story building that is a metaphor for 4.6 billion years. To make a long story short we (our entire human existence) is on the roof of the top floor.
"If the pace of development continues to increase - and we shall see shortly that there is every reason to believe it will - then the amount of change that we have seen in the last 20 years will be compressed into the next ten years, or less, and after that into an even shorter time. This itself is not a new revelation; even so, it is not always fully taken into account in our extrapolations into the future. However, such constant acceleration has another, much more startling consequence - and one that is not usually considered at all.
We might imagine tht this speeding up could continue a long way into the future; in a hundred years it would be much faster still. Bukt this sort of acceleration cannot continue forever. The timescales involved are getting shorter and shorter: from billions of years, to millions, to thousands, to centuries, and now to mere decades. If you plot out the curve of this acceleration, you will find the curve soon approaches the vertical." (Sorry, don't know how to paste chart in here)"In other words the rate of change tends towards the infinitely rapid. Mathematicians call such a point a Singularity; the equations break down and cease to have any useful meaning.
....What is clear is that a trend that has been going on for billions of years is coming to an end
- and probably fairly soon....the general conscensus is it will happen early in the 21st century- assuming" that we don't destroy the planet or ourselves.
"Some...see the singularity to be a consequence of technical acceleration, with ultra-intelligent computers creating an exponential runaway effect. But I believe technological process to be but a phase in the overall pattern of development. Millions of years ago it was biological evolution that was accelerating. Ten thousand years ago, the development of agriculture was speeding the rate of progress. A century ago it was industrial breakthroughs. Today it is information technology that is pushing the rate of development ever faster. Tomorrow we may be in a new phase of progress. The exploration and development of human consciousness could take over from information technology as an even faster arena of quickening. If so, it would be spiritual evolution, not technical evolution, that take us into the singularity."

Interesting that those in the science community as getting a little itchy about this. I guess all I can say is that I hope Russell and many of you folks are right, that it will be a spiritual awakening.

[Charlie]

Buzz,

Thanks for the post. Mr. Russell’s ideas do seem to be running parallel to Daniel’s thoughts about technology.

I see this word “acceleration” cropping up more and more on this forum, and in the media as well.

Frankly, I still don’t understand how a materialistic, societal element like technology can propel the human race forward on a spiritual basis, with perhaps the exception of a communicational level, where the internet is dredging up to the surface “underground” ideas like united peace movements and natural entheogens for millions of people.

Quoting Russell, “The exploration and development of human consciousness could take over from information technology as an even faster arena of quickening. If so, it would be spiritual evolution, not technical evolution, that take us into the singularity."

Does he explain anywhere how this “take over” occurs? If I’m driving a Ferrari at 60 mph, and increase my speed to 160 mph, that doesn’t necessarily mean my mind has accelerated proportionally as well; it certainly doesn’t entail a spiritual take over.

[Buzz]

Hi Charlie,

The exerpt from Russell's book is from the near beginning of his book and sets the stage for the investigation which is the book. I read half of it and dropped it for another read. I need to get back to Waking Up in Time and finish it. It's pretty hopeful, but points out the pit falls.

McKenna speaks of this future in terms of UFO's. Forget which book, but he presents to the reader that we have a choice: to receive the UFO phenomenon spiritually or as a technological manifestation. He was also promoting the spiritual.

Done a lot of thinking about this sort of stuff over the last 30plus years. Over the last few years I have begun to form the idea that this will not be an all or nothing event, but that we (humans) are going to split off in two directions, one spiritual, one technological; evolving into two seperate species.

[Halfglass]

Daniel: "...in the vanguard or a hapless victim." This does seem to be the direction of a plausible outcome. And yes! The apocolypse and utopia coming in together...wow! What a show we're in for. The ego thing: I'm certain that the ego experience is largely not "us." But its importance must be grand somehow! Charlie: I can't see it yet either (technology merging with or saving (?) human experience). But (for Buzz too) McKenna had an interesting thought. The instant time travel happens, (from the future back--not the other way around) instantly everyone from the future will be upon us...time will stop!

[ December 18, 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Halfglass ]

[Proteus]

The question of whether we’re on the path to metamorphosis as a species or a vast die-off—or a little of both is in contention everywhere on this list. Will human evolution take such a quantum leap up the evolutionary ladder that we'll suddenly find ourselves, post-2012, beyond the need for such things as air, water, and a safe food supply? If not, then even the most optimistic appraisal of what happens when we emerge from our techno-chrysalis must allow that billions of humans and countless other organisms will die unless we somehow IMMEDIATELY manifest the means and the habits that stop stressing biosystems and that start rebuilding them. Massive die-offs—at least for species that we don’t deem marketable, beneficial to humans, or particularly cute—isn’t just a given, it’s happening as we speak. Whether or not the next 4-5 decades also include a massive human die-off is a little less certain, but seems likely as supplies of fuel and potable water shrink and our population continues to expand. The question is whether these die-offs signal our incapacity as a race or our imminent transformation into super-organic beings who no longer need natural resources to survive.

At one end of this rope, i see a noose by which we're going to hang ourselves. i see a crash coming that will be triggered when the archon-world vision reaches its logical conclusion. We'll consume, consume, consume until Earth's energy resources are so depleted that we can no longer power this state of "human development." There will be, quite literally but also figuratively, a global power shortage that will crash economies, permanently cripple global communication systems (which run on oil-fed electricity), and disrupt the transportation networks that bring us such basic necessities as groceries and clothing. Folks like us BOTHers won’t be chatting over coffee through the Internet with interesting ideological allies from around the globe. We’ll be burning our furniture for heat and scrounging rubbish heaps for food or items to barter. The west has developed to the point where most of its citizens are so far removed from the business of creating food, clothing, and shelter that when there is too little oil to run the machines on the massive corporate farms, too little diesel fuel to power the trucks that bring goods to markets in the cities, very little artificial light, very little artificial heat (and on and on) billions will literally have to learn how to fend for themselves. The safe bet is that billions won’t be able to learn this fast enough, will become panicky as they feel the pinch of hunger and drudgery of privation, and will turn violent, perishing in riots.

My darker angels smile a bit to think about all those Wal-Mart drones using their $29.95 DVD players as bricks to build make-shift shelters on the outskirts of the cities in which they lived in order to be close to arable land. But we've killed off and reduced the numbers of so many species that we can't go Paleolithic--or at least not with the nearly 10 billion people that should be looking for lunch in 2012. We've modified the genome of many staple crops, making them susceptible to mass die-offs as well. There aren’t enough deer or fowl or fish left in the world to support 10 billion. There aren’t enough forests to burn for heat. We can't just revert to the agrarian and hunter-gatherer mode of our ancestors without a huge die-off. Our physical survivability—indeed the physical survivability of all organisms on our planet is and has always been directly and proportionally tied to the Earth's resources. Herds wax and wane depending on the amount of vegetation a given year can produce. Predators wax and wane proportionate to the size of herds. Humans, through a variety of technologies, have managed to create a cushion between themselves and this law of proportion. But that cushion is largely sustained in our times through oil-energy. We've created a network of energy-intensive systems to insure long lives, ample food stores, and to forget everything our ancestors knew about living with and off the land. And for this reason, we’re vulnerable to a sudden, cataclysmic collapse.

But, at the other end of the rope, I see (though much less clearly) a ladder to the stars. Hyper-connectivity, galactic gravitational and energy forces properly aligned, and spiritual training will—at least for the chosen few—translate into freedom from the material realm and its many binding necessities (food, clothing, shelter, sleep, companionship, gravity, mortality, etc.) Suddenly a hive mind will emerge freed from its former bondage to the meat sack’s appetites and limitations. We’ll leave behind the poisoned planet as a butterfly leaves behind its chrysalis and ride the eddies of space and time. My brighter angels rejoice at this beatific vision. A transformed humanity, serene, ever evolving, potent beyond description creating worlds, curing all ills, and at one with itself.

But between these two ends of the rope is a tangled knot and at the moment, I don’t see much difference between the Rapture-crazies in the White House and the 2012 transformationists. Both believe in some form of supernatural grace or miraculous salvation at 11:59 that will render the nay-sayers’s whining about environmental degradation, overpopulation, and resource-hoarding moot. The question is whether one believes in miraculous interventions or not—whether it takes the form of some supernatural event or some infinity-point at which geometric technological growth and human consciousness merge to form something quite unprecedented.

If you put it in Halfglass’ terms, we’re talking about a planetary crap-shoot eons in the making. All evolutionary forces have been leading up to the moment when, just as we’ve consumed all the yolk in the egg, we burst from the shell of our present physical form and waddle off looking for conditions that favor the survival of a transformed humanity—do or die. My prejudices against tidy solutions where the smart or the saved are rescued from a collapse that they had at least a small part in precipitating aside, I’m not that much more comfortable with the implications of Halfglass’ formulation. Has all of planetary history been leading up to this one human-centered moment? Can it be true that the midges of summer and the narwhals under the ice caps are, in the final analysis, merely incidental to the all-important mission of Mother Earth to nurture human evolution? Is it possible that the barley and the bananas were only here to get us special creatures to the point when we could do without them and even without the Earth itself? Is the wad that Nature is about to shoot only to include us? Rainbow trout? Gold finches? Electric eels? Dragonflys? Amoebic dysentary? All of these organisms were here to serve our evolutionary moment of truth in 2012? Wow. Nature IS profligate if that’s the case.

What the hell do I know? But I don’t see anything in evolutionary history to suggest that lifeforms evolve beyond the limitations inherent to the material world and to all organisms. Perhaps fish do eventually learn to walk on land and reptiles eventually do learn to fly—but all of them needed clean air, ample food, the right temperatures, and a place to take shelter and bear young at each stage along their evolutionary journey. My concern is that unless humanity evolves beyond the need for a body altogether, what difference will it make if we experience a transformation of our species in 2012 or not? We’ve built an enormous Tower of Babel, a technological matrix in which human life as we all know it is inextricably intertwined. But the foundation—it’s oil-based energy—is insufficient to support this tower into perpetuity (or even beyond 2030). When it collapses sages and sinners alike will be buried under the rubble—or so it would seem based on the historic fortunes of other societies that have met with sudden calamity through war and natural disaster. So, what insures the survival of post-2012 Homo Super Sapiens Sapiens when they're just as likely to die of disease, hunger, and violence as the unevolved bugger who's living in his inert Hummer with the Bush/Cheney 04 bumpersticker on it?

Is it really possible that we humans are about to transcend the Natural order through no conscious effort on the part of the overwhelming majority of us? Is it possible that our next evolutionary step will obviate our need to restore the earth’s ecosystems to balance and sustainability? It takes big-time faith to believe that.

[Halfglass]

Proteus: (I was typing as you were so let me sneek back in here quickly.) The fact that the end is here for better or worse is almost laughable to argue. People using dvd players for bricks is funny. So is the mega-denial of everyone--especially the politicians. But remember if we go extinct, in a geological blink the earth will be green again. And a few blinks later diverseification will fill all the nooks with interesting creatures with endless patterns of color, fins, wings, legs. The earth will be fine--we're already gone man.

[gone]

“in a geological blink the earth will be green again. And a few blinks later diversification will fill all the nooks with interesting creatures with endless patterns of color, fins, wings, legs. The earth will be fine--we're already gone man.”

This actually sounds pretty serene.

[daniel]

These are good posts on this most pressing of all questions. However, I feel compelled to reiterate a few things...

All of you still seem to be starting with the Western presupposition that there is a duality between Matter (physical evolution, the earth, etc.) and Spirit (consciousness). This is an artificial dualism and must be transcended. Matter is simply temporarily densified spirit.

Take seriously Steiner's idea that everything in the universe is conscious at its own level, and everything is undergoing a process of transformation to higher or lower states of sentience.

Take seriously the Buddhist idea that this world is Maya, illusion, and what is going on right now, in our maniacal Apocalypse, is the necessary "striking of the set," in order to create the ground for a new level of being. If we weren't in this Kali Yuga crisis, we wouldn't be forced to evolve - and we are being forced to evolve, simply because the time is now for it to take place - the tool kit for achieving the new consciousness structure is available for us, if we have the courage to apply it.

Time (the kind of time we currently inhabit) is the medium in which consciousness self-organizes to a new, more intensified level. As Gurdjieff says, time is different in different cosmoses. Post-2012, we will experience time differently - perhaps, as Arguelles suggests, "time travel" will become possible.

The extraordinary beauty and complexity of the numerous life forms on this Earth represent the thoughts and deeds and syntax of higher spiritual beings, using the DNA as their expressive alphabet. On one level, they exist in and for themselves, but I do agree with Steiner that the evolution of human consciousness is not accidental or tangential, but the essential meaning and purpose of the Earth. Steiner describes nine previous hierarchies of spiritual beings, and states that humans are meant to become the tenth hierarchy - "the Spirits of Freedom." Clearly, learning how to accept freedom, to be free without being destructive or greedy, is a chaotic and complicated process.

But time is an illusion. Those who don't make the transition in this life will get other opportunities. Steiner actually does describe the Earth splitting into two different bodies, with two different "human kingdoms" evolving in different ways. The ones who have evolved to a higher state continue to care for and help the ones who are stuck in more dense or lower vibrations, to make the transition.

I am reading a great book right now, Maya Cosmogenesis 2012 by John Major Jenkins. Interestingly, the Aztec myths describe the Tzitzimitl, "the monsters of the end times," who descend from the sky at the end of this world age to devour/carry off a large portion of mankind. It is perfectly clear to me that the Tzitzimitle are the same entities as the "Grey Aliens," and I suspect that they will literalize their manifestation as we approach the end-time date.

[Buzz]

I have seen UFO's on several occasions. To my knowledge I have not ever encountered these "greys", and I'm glad from what I've read. I have, however, always had a gut feeling they had something to do with death. I feel like they harvest souls. I read a half dozen of Whitley's Striebers books on the aliens and probably my idea comes from that reading, though I'm not sure if he ever addressed that directly.

As for the end times alien factor. Lately, I've been re-reading the Book of the Hopi by Frank Waters. In their creation myths, worlds have come and gone. Twice, at the end of an age, when the gods decided to destroy the world, the chosen people went underground to live with the ant people. From looking at native american pictographs, some folks believe these ant people are what we call the alien greys. By the way, in there legends, when the world is about to be destroyed a spot at the top of the head opens (metaphysically) to receive directions on where to go for safety.

It is interesting that one group of native americans seems to be in cahoots with the ant people (or were at one time) and another warns us to beware of them. Of course that is assuming they are the same creatures. The Cherokee call themselves the "Children of the Pleiades" and I think the Maya believe the same of their own origins.
Jenkins has possibly re-discovered something of tremendous importance (at least it was to the Maya). But if we can believe his research from his newest book, Galactica Alignment this re-alignment with galactic center was known world wide. And was heralded as something to look forward to. I also have gut feeling that JM Jenkins was on mushrooms at Izapa when he figured out what that location and its monuments were all about.

[ December 19, 2003, 05:34 AM: Message edited by: Buzz ]

[Agent Smith]

well I actually will not take either stiner, or buddhism seriously daniel. I don't have enough time to type this all out right now, but I think it's exactly the other way round...Matter gives rise to spirit, through bio-elcectro-magnetic processes... and those disembodied beings have been pulling our legs, and manipulating our perceptions to make these 'die offs' seem 'okay' to the few who 'matter'. acsended cheifs my ass... I'll give you a better account later. gotta run.

[dragonfly]

Originally posted by daniel:
The extraordinary beauty and complexity of the numerous life forms on this Earth represent the thoughts and deeds and syntax of higher spiritual beings, using the DNA as their expressive alphabet. This reminds me ... the other day I received in the mail a brochure for a conference led by Gregg Braden called "The God Code: Healing Our Future Through the Message From Our Past." It says:

"A coded message has been found within the molecules of life; deep within the DNA in each cell of our bodies. Through a remarkable discovery linking Biblical alphabets to the elements of Earth, our genetic code now reads as a text message of healing and peace! The code in our cells, including the 'signature' of God's ancient name, offers concrete evidence that all life is related and the result of an intentional act."

I've never read anything by Braden. Does anyone have any thoughts on his work, especially this DNA-language idea?

[sidecross]

"…I came across something in Peter Russells book, "Waking Up in Time: finding inner peace in times of accelerating change". He is a physicist who studied with Stephen Hawking and received a degree in psychology as well.

Russell writes about the evolution of the planet and life by comparing the different stages to stories in a 108 story building that is a metaphor for 4.6 billion years. To make a long story short we (our entire human existence) is on the roof of the top floor…"

As a side note Russell first wrote about this metaphor in 1992 in his book The White Hole in Time. The 108 floor building was The World Trade Center. And to be more accurate, "the Renaissance occurred in the top one thousandth of an inch: less than the thickness of a layer of paint."

[Halfglass]

Daniel, that sums it up nicely. "Illusion" might be a simplification somehow, but in the end, the things behind the action--the dead included--are in the "realer" state. I have a sense that this Thing, has gone and shaken itself awake, and endured endless setbacks and come around to itself (as us), by a huge undertaking, like letters in the mail, sent to itself, over and over, waiting for itself to recognize itself as author. Rocks and apparently unalive things could be thought of as "sleeping" but not seperate from It, just as we are not seperate, indeed we are It. I keep saying this but I'm certain that I'm onto the direction here. We are riding THE BLOOM! (Like you said somewhere in your book Daniel, where you had a vision of fields of plants endlessly growing, blooming and dieing, rapidly--so must what we see as time be unreal...a blink.(Be ready to leap off as a spore.)

[Buzz]

Thanks for the details, sidecross. Don't think Waking Up in Time speaks of the building being one of the world trade towers. That's pretty strange given the circumstances. This whole Lord of the Rings movie trilogy is so timely. "The Two Towers". Our towers coming down. Sauromon kills the trees and praises metal and fire. Is this living proof of Halfglasses idea of messages being sent from ourselves?

[daniel]

I think that, yes, the timeliness of The Lord of the Rings and also similar films like Harry Potter, The Matrix, The X Men, are like "letters sent to ourselves" through the medium of the collective unconscious.

In fact, all of the Marvel Comics of the 1960s which have recently been revived as flicks, posit the individual undergoing a "mutation" (usually through contact with radiation or some industrial chemical) that creates a massive evolutionary advance and also problems of loneliness, split personality, etc.

In Jean Gebser's Ever-Present Origin, written in the 1940s, he talks about the emergence of the new consciousness structure as a "mutation" which will lead to a new relationship to time and space. This "mutation" is not physical, as it is literalized in the comic books, but is an advance in awareness which leads to a total transformation of understanding of what is happening on the Earth, and what the purpose of human existence is. As I said above, how it seems to me is that historical time is the medium in which consciousness self-organizes to a higher state, ultimately taking complete control over the Earth's physical environment and turning the planet into a sacred utopian art project in 2013.

Or as it came to me in a dream in Brazil: "WHAT MANIFESTS OUTWARD FROM THE GROUND OF BEING IS FREEDOM IN TIME, AND FREEDOM FROM TIME."

I do disagree with one little comment made by Halfglass above: "Be ready to leap off as a spore." I suspect the opposite - that we go deeper into the physical and earthly, deeper into the here and now, to make the transmutation.

[Proteus]

Daniel writes:
Take seriously Steiner's idea that everything in the universe is conscious at its own level, and everything is undergoing a process of transformation to higher or lower states of sentience.

Take seriously the Buddhist idea that this world is Maya, illusion, and what is going on right now, in our maniacal Apocalypse, is the necessary "striking of the set," in order to create the ground for a new level of being. Hmm. i'd have said that i take quite seriously the idea that everything is sentient to one degree or another and that all things are Maya--though i think the preferred term is "empty." But i'd also point out that the recognition that all things are empty of any fixed nature or permanence is not the heart of Buddhist practice--nor should the notion of emptiness in any way suggest that spiritual and mental things DO have permanence. Even the gods in the Tibetan tradition die; they, too, have no permanence.

But, on the whole, i think we see things in roughly the same way. You say that the way to transubstantiation is through going deeper into the physical and earthly. My post essentially says the same thing: we may well be transformed in 2012 (that is indeed my sincere belief), but we aren't getting out of THIS (i.e. some form of space-time existence on this planet, on this plane). Or at least nothing so far in my spiritual experience has suggested otherwise. Indeed, my most profound visions have encouraged me to see the physical and the spiritual as mutally affecting harmonic overtones resonating over an underlyting Source Tone.

That's why i'm concerned that we don't get too comfy with the idea of getting "out" of here through some kind of Second Coming deal. There isn't any where else to get to; i believe we will develop faculties to perceive many other layers of "here" differently than we do now, but we'll still have ties to good old Mother Earth in some fashion or another.

Who knows what happens in the unseen worlds when we shit in this one?

[daniel]

Proteus,

Even to go one step further: There can be no waiting for 2012. It may be that the "process" of transition will be completed by that date. We are now in the time of fulfillment of prophecy, and people should orient their thoughts and actions with that idea in their mind.

No transcendence but immanence: Don't put off for tomorrow what must be achieved now.

[Agent Smith]

well I will agree with that last seniment daniel.
I for one have been putting off a more detailed reply to this thread, and will continue to do so for a little longer. (so that I can pay attention to more pressing things.)

I will say this however. I react rather strongly to the suggestion that the Earth maybe a hatching ground, egg, or host. This seems parasitical to me, and further it seems like killing the goose that laid the golden egg. There is no reason to believe that we cannot live in complete stability here, and even achive even more profound levels of consciousness. The 'host/parasite' version of looking at things seems like manipulation, and hardly worth it...

more later.

[Halfglass]

Agent Smith; maybe the plan will go either way. That is, the earth won't be that F'd up in eight years. Also all: "jump off as a spore" was just a little ditty to go with the "riding the bloom" thing. I don't have the sense that we'll be called up to the clouds or anything. I do have a nagging suspicion that there may be a single night when something huge happens.

[Agent Smith]

oh it's not YOU, there are plenty of people who fervently believe in 'dominionism', and they own major oil companies! also I've heard it bandied about in flakiod circles that since our 'souls are immortal'(a highly dubious concept at best) if the Earth is destroyed it 'wouldn't matter because 'spirit' would create a new planet for us to dwell on...it's all just part of the learning process...' ...um...yeeeeaaaaaah...

...in the meantime, maybe the Earth won't be so bad off in 8 years (maybe it isn't so bad off right now... realtively speaking) IF we FUGGIN' DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!! by which I mean, figure out a new plan, and implement it...like YESTERDAY!!! like daniel says, it might not be what we're doing in 8 years...but what we're doing NOW!! ...but this goes into a whooooole bunch of other stuff...like....'where is my attention being directed right now?'

[Halfglass]

I don't believe in dominionism. You said you understood my post as a what-if when you first posted. I'm saying suppose, and you're taking it wrong. There's a plan and it doesn't involve the human race turing things around now. It's all a big machine running on its own now. Don't you see?

[Agent Smith]

...I am not sure that I do. supose that it is a machine...well too bad I am a Man not a number...'Who is Number One?' I didn't mean to imply that YOU believed in dominionism, I only meant to add that there ARE people out there who DO see things this way. and guess what? to them WE are all expendable. (The whole entirety of the biosphere) A small price to pay for their fun... great cosmic all encompassing jollies, or the smiting, and bitings of those who dared to disagree...whatever. I ain't buyin' it, and I ain't havin' it, and it ain't goin' down. whatever it is.

I believe that the preception that the universe is mechanistic rather than fluid, organic, and plasitic, and that there is an inevitible outcome that we cannot alter is a well worn groove, that has been carefully designed, and imbedded in your soft drink, happy meal tie-ins, and that it ain't necessarily so. 'Everybody knows that ____.' do they? what if it were all a bunch of bullshit? what if we were even programed to question these things in ways that were completely irrelevant, and time wasting? Why, if I were the King, and no illuminatifreemasonic style plot to overthrow me existed, I just might start one to keep my opponents off balance. the more esoteric, and ludacris the better. That's right StarChild, the Protoculture(tm) will hatch soon. Just so long as you've activated your dormant 22 dna strands, with blah, blah, blah... not that what i believe is any less ridiculous, but hey.

[Halfglass]

Agent Smith; Right. I believe I misread your other post. Anyway, I think your line of reasoning must be the one we hold fast to, whatever happens. I have since my teens thought of everything I was fed (the way things were perceived and "whispered down the lane" by my parents, teachers etc.) as completely off the mark--nobody ever talking real stuff (they immersed in materialism). For a collective change in dominionism to happen, there needs to be a turning back, along the way of a thousand fears and tribulations, and except that this way has proven to be a way of error. (This is happening painfully slow with religion, but it is happening--molester priests, terrorists, all giving it a bad name). There needs to be a renouncing of the suduction of ego-centered, selfish desires. But the attempt to do this through the ego itself is a fox-in-the-henhouse! It cannot happen without a radical transformation. I havn't stopped believing as you do friend, it's just that I have to look at what is happening without my feelings in the mix, (everyone on a Path lives now in conditions they find irksome, but sometimes we get some light!)...I had a Satori if you will, that the Way goes onward and contains its own correction. And even if there is no transformation due to the Earth Mind (although that is what I have seen, more than hints, in the trance state) the Earth will not be done-in by us. It'll be back to the caves for the survivors, and the story of The Great Fuck-up, will be the New Doctrine.

[Agent Smith]

'The Story of the Great Fuck Up' i like it already. much more to say on this, but a merry Greedfest to all for now!! ;)