A survey: how many people here channel?

[sacha]

It seems that there are a lot of scattered references throughout many threads to the fact that many people on this board receive channelings themselves.

I would like to see a survey or "census." (The next step would be to extract common threads of meaning.)

So, some questions:

How many people here receive messages that come from sources other than their "conscious minds"?

For how many are the messages purely intuitional, and how many receive messages coming through in words?

Have you received messages or intuitions about a great change into which humanity is moving at this time?

For those who receive messages that come through in words: How long ago did it start?

(That is an important question, since, as we have been able to see through Daniel, the integration phase is important, and it takes a certain amount of time. Many new or unintegrated channelers take the specifics of their messages literally. Channeling can be ungrounding at first.)

(This question is significant in another way: I think that as we get closer to the "target date," more and more people find channeled messages breaking through them. That in itself is a sign of the changes in our species groupmind.)

More questions to follow. This is just a starting point.

[ April 26, 2006, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: sacha ]

[Humming]

sacha, this is an interesting point of discussion. I'd like to give a point of view that may re-contextualize your view of "channeling".

Anyone who's ever been present inside of a dream has, 'received messages that come from sources other than their "conscious minds"'. But this isn't exactly accurate....

For a long time when I was studying dreaming and trying to understand reality, I was perplexed by the duality of the dream world. I wondered, why are these dreams happening? Is this a totally exterior force manipulating me from the outside, or is the whole dreamworld actually a landscape of my inner mind?

The conclusion that I've come to is that there is no duality. The objective perception IS the subjective perception and vice versa. In these realms, a voice or a messenger may seem to come from outside of you, but really it's a part of you that is presenting itself to yourself in whatever way that is most likely to get your attention.

Whenever I find myself in the perceptual twilight between waking and sleeping, if I pay attention I usually hear occasional voices. Most of the time it will be just a few words, always spoken in different voices. In psychology this would be referred to as a "hypnogogic hallucination".

Sometimes I've experienced a very loud and powerfully expressive voice, when I have been conscious in my dreams. Once I dreamed that I continually ascended a very long, seemingly infinite staircase. When I got to the top I would have a full dream experience--meeting people, talking, walking around, etc.--and then I would eventually be "re-set" and appear down at the bottom of the staircase again. This happened several times until I became powerfully conscious while ascending the staircase. I looked to my left and the staircase stretched out infinitely wide like two reflecting mirrors, and then I heard a booming voice that said, "THE CENTER IS EVERYWHERE!"

I later found out that Frederic Nietzsche had written this statement, "The center is everywhere. Bent is the path of eternity."

I consider this aphorism to be very useful in thinking about reality. It contains the earlier paradox about the perceived dualistic difference between subjective and objective perception.

[dragonfly]

I don't think of what happened to me as "channeling" per se, but I had an experience about 20 years ago while walking alone in the woods near my childhood home in which a voice -- authoritative, female -- told me to "clean the river." This was well before I had become ecologically aware enough to know that the stream running through the woods was contaminated with industrial toxins. Later, after the deaths of my father and many of our neighbors from cancer, I did become involved in local environmental health advocacy work.

[jezebelle]

interesting thread:
I think any time anyone sits down and really gets into any sort of creativity, they are channelling from their place of power.
The trick is too become more conscious, zen says something about becoming more pregnant in the moment of the "now," this is where you can reach your genius. This makes sense to me. Historically more of the conscious bleed-through(s) were when I was younger and I still go by the info I learned then.
After peru (last summer) I am more grounded in my daily activities and the present seems like plenty enough to deal with. Like Humming, waking, sleeping, whatever, all seem to be closely related to you and the learning needed therein.
The point is to learn from the information, in whatever way resonates with you.
Love and respect,
jez

[sacha]

Jez, you are right that all creative inspiration is channeling -- channeling is the process of receiving and translating those energies into a form that our senses and "conscious" minds can apprehend. That can be painting, music, any form of art.

An inspired work of art will resonate with our spirit -- you can recognize inspiration, if you are in tune with it. It will speak to your spirit.

But channeling "information" in conceptual form presents some unique problematic issues. That was why I specified "informational" channeling, in the survey.

I want to address Hummer's points about dreams and the "conscious" mind and related issues, but I think I should have put this thread in "The Dimensional Shift" forum in the first place. And besides, the discussion should probably have a separate thread anyway, so the survey remains a survey. So, Hummer, I'll be responding in a new thread in "The Dimensional Shift" forum.

[Douglas]

sacha,

How many people here receive messages that come from sources other than their "conscious minds"?I have. (Not including television and radio.)

For how many are the messages purely intuitional, and how many receive messages coming through in words?They come through in words - "audibly", though not "verbally". (If that makes sense - I "hear" the words clearly, in my mind, much as one might "hear" the sound of someone's voice if they "replayed" it in their minds.)

Have you received messages or intuitions about a great change into which humanity is moving at this time?Yes.

For those who receive messages that come through in words: How long ago did it start?My first such "message" was completely unexpected. I was walking along a hall in the apartment building I was living in, back in April of 1984 (or May, or June, of 1984), when I heard, quite clearly (in my mind): "Wait until she has reconciled with her father". I wasn't even thinking anything about this issue at the time I was walking, by the way, and the message was so clear, it stopped me in my tracks. (I could explain the context of the message, but it's not that important, especially not now.) I now recognize that that "voice" was the Holy Spirit's. (I can discern which Person of the Trinity it is Who is speaking to me.)

The first such message I received which related to "a great change into which humanity is moving" occurred in a dream on January 23, 1993...a dream which was in two parts. In the first part, I was in God the Father's presence (though I didn't see Him almost see Him, but could very definitely sense His presence), and I asked Him, "When will the End be?" (and by "the End" I meant the Rapture [an Evangelical Christian doctrine]); God the Father responded by saying, "When it is spoken by Iraq". In the second part, I saw a man dressed in white standing beside a round, wood kitchen table, and he three times placed a white, sealed envelope on the table, each time looking at me very intently and saying, "Here is a message at 9 o'clock".

I wasn't sure what the dream meant, at the time (I had some opinions), but I am now almost certain the second part referred to the Israel/PLO peace treaty signed in Washington, D.C. on September 13, 1993. The Rapture is related to the Antichrist confirming a 7-year peace treaty between Israel and Israel's enemies, and thus the September 13, 1993 treaty could have been a foreshadowing ("a message") of that which is to come; the "9 o'clock" referred to the 9th month of the calendar, September. What is also interesting is that from the morning I had the dream (sometime between probably Midnight and 5 a.m. on January 23 [a Saturday]) and the signing in Washington on September 13 (at 11:43 a.m.) could have been exactly 233.3333 days, or 7.7777 "Biblical" months (of 30 days each). Beyond coincidental.

(And, at no time that I have received any of these "communications" have I felt intruded upon, or anxious, or angered, or repulsed, or disgusted, or in the presence of evil.)

A few others:
</font> "Learn to love." (Jesus - 1987 [1988?])</font> "You did not love them." (Jesus - 1990)</font> "My student." (God the Father - 1991)</font> "What a beautiful spirit." (The Holy Spirit - 1992)</font> "Shabbat. Welcome to My time." (God the Father - at 2 a.m. on a Sunday morning, after my first, hard, week of work in a trailer factory, in December of 1995 [I was so exhausted I had fallen asleep, clothed and without getting under the covers, early Saturday afternoon, and didn't wake up until God the Father woke me up with this "greeting"] [note also that I had no idea, at the time, what "Shabbat" meant])</font> "It is woven into the fabric of time." (Jesus - 1996)</font>

[ May 01, 2006, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Douglas ]

[Douglas]

I guess I scared everyone off. "Channeling" God is so unbelievable and off-the-wall, I suppose.

[daniel]

"God the Father" ... just curious: Did He have a long white beard?

[Douglas]

daniel,

I never actually saw Him, but I imagine He might have. Why? Would that be just too weird, or unbelievable, that the Creator of the Universe, the One Who created man in His image, would look like a human being? Why would that be less believable than "God" having no form whatsoever?

(Oh, and I received my copy of "2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl" yesterday [Friday]. In reading through the first portion, somewhat, I did notice you have a penchant for portraying Evangelical Christians with unflattering, prejudiced and uninformed stereotypes [for your information, practically no Evangelical Christian I am aware of thinks Jesus has blue eyes {nor that He is caucasian}, etc.]. I'm disappointed in you - surely a journalist of your caliber would seek to avoid cheap stereotypes.)

[ May 06, 2006, 05:27 AM: Message edited by: Douglas ]

[Lowlight]

God is nothing.

[Douglas]

Lowlight,

That's not what He says.

[ May 06, 2006, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: Douglas ]

[Thom]

No, it's what She says. His Mother.

[Caprinardo Delirio]

douglas, what would your stereotype of the evangelical christian look like?

although i've met christians with great attitudes towards themselves, their faith and the world and so on, still when regarding christians as a whole, which undeniably is like making a model of earth out of playdough and displaying it to the aliens on whose ship you've happened to find yourself, i'll still catalog christians as the most ignorant, intolerant, and downright life-threatening of the people in the world. those who'd rival, would do so by sharing the very same essence of intention as is the christian intention. which is in short, mis-understanding. yes, there are others, but christians really can do it like no one else!

did you ever see that simpsons episode where bart converts to catholicism and in the end becomes the new messiah? the end scene is set in some cyber future where two great armies meet on a battlefront, and the two generals or whatever approach eachother, and then the first one is saying that they believe that bart simpson, the last prophet of god, taught compassion and forgiveness to the people of earth, and the other general replies that his side believes that bart preached tolerance and acceptance. then each of the armies utters what they respectively think was the messiahs favorite catchphrase, before they annihilate eachother. MESS-AGE!

that's my prejudice of europe's and the us' christian-cultural heritage in a nutshell: shame, fear, hatred, murder, ignorance, delusion, conformity and every kind of monstrous evil known to man, including genocide, torture, rape, incest, terror and all down the line on the lighter side of it all: toe-cringing and profound uninspiredness of every musical act and every cultural effort that has been pursued by christians in the 20'th century. all along with a little humanism that had/has a tough time surviving. and that was partly thanks to this young bloke jesus, who went and had an experience of the sort people in india welcome as a thing of utmost sanity and validity, but that jesus himself had a tough time communicating to his infantile culture, as well as to himself.

you see, i don't think anybody who come here except you would think that having religious experiences involving mythological material from either of the world religions, would oppose the experiences of someone whose mythological content (persons, deities, supreme-beings, clothes, architecture, geographical locality, and so on) differed, and argument that one has more leverage. i think most people who come here know very well that the fact is, that when you're in the presence of the devine, there is no doubt whatsoever that it is so,, but furthermore that while people brought up in a particular religious culture have experiences that does not deviate from their culture, so does buddhists have revelations of jewish character, muslims have experiences of hindu deities, aboriginals who've never met a white person, have talks with the blue-eyed christ, and post-modern new york journalists experience identification with quetzalcoatl, and everything inbetween, not so easily descibed, as well!

knowing that a symbol is merely pointing to the transcendent, and cannot have it's essence existing amongst the same phenomena where the symbol itself exist, is the key to end the tedious battles of definitions and arbitrary aesthetics, that you so gleefully are pursuing.

you had this notion that people here would not be able to believe the stories of religious nature that you told from your own life, because they would oppose our worldview, and because you yourself was so baffled by them, it seemed. i for one must admit that the story of you the kid alone at home making up jesus-lyrics while listening to your brother's music, and the subsequent prejudicial tackling of that devine intervention, bears witness to me of a child whose psychological sensory apparatus had already been severly malpracticed by it's parental programmers. maybe whatever splitting of your soul you did right there, was what was got healed while you were driving your car, who knows!?

what you're bringing to this table is that of a 2-year old proudly slamming a piece of his own shit onto a kitchen table where his parents are trying to make chocolate cake, for gods sake!

[ May 06, 2006, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Caprinardo Delirio ]

[snow]

wait, where did all that happen? the music, the brother, and the revelation in the car? which discussion is that in? damn. missed it. hard to keep up on this board.

[snow]

for the topic, i havent channelled, but sometimes i get funny dreams. a while ago i had all these scientology dreams - no idea why. scientologists talking to the dreamspace, no me there, but somehow chanelling it. and then it was wierd cuz the next day daniel put up some post about dreaming initiations... but i just didnt feel like commenting.

there was a wonderful italian opera singer. she only sang at the met in nyc once, in italy she sang all the peasant roles. she said 'i dont try to hit the notes. i just look at the light i see opening out of the ceiling and sing to it'.

[Douglas]

Caprinardo,

although i've met christians with great attitudes towards themselves, their faith and the world and so on, still when regarding christians as a whole, which undeniably is like making a model of earth out of playdough and displaying it to the aliens on whose ship you've happened to find yourself, i'll still catalog christians as the most ignorant, intolerant, and downright life-threatening of the people in the world.Pure bigoted baloney, I'm afraid. First, it is completely unfair to categorize ALL Christians based on the behavior of a few, or even of a many. Are all Muslims terrorists? I agree that there are those who call themselves "Christian", yet who are "ignorant, intolerant, and downright life-threatening". But such people aren't true Christians, because they do not follow Christ, but a specter of Christ created by their own imagination, or by the deceptions of Satan.

those who'd rival, would do so by sharing the very same essence of intention as is the christian intention. which is in short, mis-understanding.The "christian intention" is "misunderstanding"? Perhaps I'm not understanding you.

yes, there are others, but christians really can do it like no one else!We always strive to excel.

did you ever see that simpsons episode where bart converts to catholicism and in the end becomes the new messiah?No. But I don't think "The Simpsons" is a good place to look for spiritual or religious insight.

the end scene is set in some cyber future where two great armies meet on a battlefront, and the two generals or whatever approach each other, and then the first one is saying that they believe that bart simpson, the last prophet of god, taught compassion and forgiveness to the people of earth, and the other general replies that his side believes that bart preached tolerance and acceptance. then each of the armies utters what they respectively think was the messiah's favorite catchphrase, before they annihilate each other. MESS-AGE!Sounds like a cute episode. But not relevant to what the Bible teaches, nor what Evangelical Christians believe or practice.

that's the my prejudice of europe's and the us' christian-cultural heritage in a nutshell: shame, fear, hatred, murder, ignorance, delusion, conformity and every kind of monstrous evil known to man, including genocide, torture, rape, incest, terror and all down the line on the lighter side of it all: toe-cringing and profound uninspiredness of every musical act and every cultural effort that has been pursued by christians in the 20'th century.If you are from Europe, then your view of genuine Christianity is most certainly skewed by the abominations of the Roman Catholic Church and its history. Are you unaware, though, of all the genuine Christians who have been persecuted for their faith through the years? Those the RCC sought to exterminate, for instance? Or the Anabaptists, who suffered at the hands of both Roman Catholic and Protestant "leaders", simply because of their commitment to Scriptural truth?

all along with a little humanism that had/has a tough time surviving. and that was partly thanks to this young bloke jesus, who went and had an experience of the sort people in india welcome as a thing of utmost sanity and validity, but that jesus himself had a tough time communicating to his infantile culture, as well as to himself.That's a myth. There is no reason to think Jesus ever visited India. Not to mention that if Jesus had achieved "Christ consciousness" (as the popular New Age myth has it), then He certainly screwed up big-time by manifesting in that era and culture, rather than one more "receptive" to the supposed "New Age" message He supposedly had. Further, if one accepts the Gospels, at the least, as accurate records of Jesus' life and sayings, then it is absolutely clear that His beliefs and teachings CONTRADICT, at a fundamental level, some of the most essential teachings of India which you would claim that He actually tried to convey.

you see, i don't think anybody who come here except you would think that having religious experiences involving mythological material from either of the world religions, would oppose the experiences of someone whose mythological content (persons, deities, supreme-beings, clothes, architecture, geographical locality, and so on) differed, and argument that one has more leverage.Listen, logic and reason, the meaning of words and language, make it QUITE clear that some teachings absolutely contradict others, regardless of whether those teachings are received through "religious experiences involving mythological material" from various world religions or not. You can't mix Truth with Error, and claim you still have pure Truth. Truth is not subjective. (And, if you claim that it is, why could I not merely reply, "That's your truth, not mine"?)

i think most people who come here know very well that the fact is, that when you're in the presence of the divine, there is no doubt whatsoever that it is so, but furthermore that while people brought up in a particular religious culture have experiences that does not deviate from their culture, so does buddhists have revelations of jewish character, muslims have experiences of hindu deities, aboriginals who've never met a white person, have talks with the blue-eyed christ, and post-modern new york journalists experience identification with quetzalcoatl, and everything in between, not so easily descibed, as well!Sure it is. Lying spirits, spiritual deception, etc.. Just as there are those who lie in this life, there are spirits who are characterized by their lies and lying. Daniel has become acquainted with a prime example of this, in his communications with "Quetzalcoatl". Or would you argue that every "message" received from the "spirit world" is trustworthy, and that all such spirits are themselves always truthful?

knowing that a symbol is merely pointing to the transcendent, and cannot have it's essence existing amongst the same phenomena where the symbol itself exist, is the key to end the tedious battles of definitions and arbitrary aesthetics, that you so gleefully are pursuing.Oh, glee!! Joy and glee! (I always appreciate it when others here so objectively and fair-mindedly analyze me, without even knowing me.) But, no, understanding truth, being careful with definitions (for example, exactly what constitutes a "Christian", or what, for instance, the Bible means by "redemption" and "salvation") is VERY important in separating lies from fact, error from truth, and allowing individuals to make informed spiritual decisions.

you had this notion that people here would not be able to believe the stories of religious nature that you told from your own life, because they would oppose our worldview, and because you yourself was so baffled by them, it seemed.Not true on several counts. I actually thought people here would be more receptive to the stories of a religious nature I had to share than even most Christians (though I assumed they'd try to spin it into a "New Age" cloth). And, I haven't been "baffled" by my experiences at all, really. As I said, I can discern Who it is Who is "speaking" to me, and I understood all the "messages", save for the one, which I am now fairly certain I understand.

i for one must admit that the story of you the kid alone at home making up jesus-lyrics while listening to your brother's music, and the subsequent prejudicial tackling of that divine intervention,...I was thirteen years old, and my "mental age" was probably closer to 20 or so. "Prejudicial"? I simply believe in Jesus, or found Him quite compelling, at the time. The experience I had came from outside of me - whatever "prejudice" was involved (assuming there was any, which I would deny) would have come from the source of my "vision", not from me. Why is it you cannot accept that, just perhaps, my "vision" reflected genuine spiritual reality? It sounds as though you yourself are "prejudiced" against this possibility.

...bears witness to me of a child whose psychological sensory apparatus had already been severely malpracticed by it's parental programmers.Pshaw. My parents didn't push Christianity on me at all. They were United Methodists, whose Christianity involved attending church regularly every Sunday, sitting in the pews, and going to dinner right after service. And that's about it. We never talked about Christianity or the Bible, and my father never read the Bible, except if called upon to do so at some church service (which was extremely, extremely rare). "Psychological sensory apparatus..." - I appreciate the free psychoanalyzing, but I'm afraid you are way off.

maybe whatever splitting of your soul you did right there, was what got healed while you were driving your car, who knows!?My soul was not "split" there. I felt quite spiritually strong and whole after the experience (when I was young). It was not until I began experimenting with Ouija Boards, and becoming interested in occult/New Age things, that I felt a "splitting" of my soul (that is, where I felt removed from hope, innocence, and any sense of joy).

what you're bringing to this table is that of a 2-year old proudly slamming a piece of his own shit onto a kitchen table where his parents are trying to make chocolate cake, for gods sake!Baloney. My understanding of my spiritual experiences, and spiritual reality, is quite "adult", and reasonable. It is YOUR reaction, essentially calling my views "sh*t", and trying to portray my spiritual sophistication in comparison with those here as equivalent to the understanding of a 2-year old in comparison with his parents, that is childish and quite uncalled-for. Not to mention that it reflects a tremendous lack of discernment on your part.

Nice talking to you, though. It's always refreshing to have someone of your exaltation deign to refer to someone of my lowly status as being a purveyor of "sh*t". I am honored.

[Douglas]

snow,

If you go to the thread, "The Return of Quetzalcoatl" in this forum ("Quetzalcoatl Returns"), then hunt down my post dated July 17, 2005 09:06 PM (you can find it on page 10), you will find an account of my experience/vision when I was 13. I'm not sure where my account of my having a demon cast out of me when I was 27 is, but I imagine it's around here somewhere.

[Caprinardo Delirio]

i was willfully portraying a prejudiced picture of christianity, but i know you're not too good at the between-the-lines thing, so sorry. neither, did i say anything of jesus going to india.

look, say what you want, but your recent martyric defense of youself, was setup by yourself with your unbelievably high n mighty ignorance, that you graced this board with to begin with. that little comment on daniel's kerouac quote, was just one example of your whole "i'm ok - you're not ok" scheme, which is just as ugly as any of the attempts you've done to sound modern, mature or modest.

please tell me this, if truth isn't subjective how can you know it?

[snow]

Merci Douglas, Que je suis bête, et Dieu sait quoi!

Advienne que pourra, I will search for your stories.

quelle vie !

[ May 06, 2006, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: snow ]

[snow]

channeled by coco channel.

[Douglas]

Caprinardo,

i was willfully portraying a prejudiced picture of christianity, but i know you're not too good at the between-the-lines thing, so sorry.Well, that may be, but it also may be that you're not too good at presenting "between-the-lines" things. I'd say you gave no clues, though I suppose you'd say I'm clueless.

neither, did i say anything of jesus going to india.Okay, I see that you are right. Darn it. I guess I just read into it a bit more "between the lines" than you intended to be there - there is a popular myth floating about that Jesus headed to India sometime between His 12th and 30th birthdays, and learned from some "masters" there, coming back to Israel to try to "enlighten" them. So, forgive me for thinking this was a "between-the-lines" meaning you had in mind.

look, say what you want, but your recent martyric defense of youself, was setup by yourself with your unbelievably high n mighty ignorance, that you graced this board with to begin with.My "unbelievably high-n-mighty ignorance"? Did you actually read my first few posts on this board? What was I "ignorant" of? And in what way did I appear "high-n-mighty"? I guarantee you that my first posts here, at the least, were done with circumspection (not lacking in boldness, but not presenting myself as better than others, certainly), and without any prodding humor.

that little comment on daniel's kerouac quote, was just one example of your whole "i'm ok - you're not ok" scheme, which is just as ugly as any of the attempts you've done to sound modern, mature or modest.No, now it is you who are reading more "between-the-lines" than is there. My comment on daniel's kerouac quote wasn't intended as anything other than a cute (or semi-cute) comment on the importance of people.

please tell me this, if truth isn't subjective how can you know it?I will tell you, just as soon as you tell me how "truth is objective" is untrue, if truth is subjective. (Note that there's likely more to this statement than you might realize.)

[Douglas]

snow,

You're welcome (I think - I don't speak French). Could you translate what you said for me, please? (I'm not sure I trust the online translators.)

[Douglas]

snow?

[Douglas]

Hello?

[Caprinardo Delirio]

hi doug,

did you find hitler in your heart yet?

[snow]

sorry douglas, I was mercifully offline for a while there and missed your message. i didnt say anything important above, just that im a fool and god knows what. etc. best wishes douglas.

[M. Twilite]

It's funny that this thread just popped back into the headlines, because last night I had my first "recognized" channeling experience.

I was smoking a bit of low wattage salvia d. while painting, as this combination often results in some great trance work and paintings, wherein I seem to channel some previous life or spirit of a better artist.

In this case, after exhaling a big hit, a feminine voice said "you are not painting or doing anything YET, first you have to honor the mother." So I quickly threw my brush down and got on my knees, trying to suppress a smirk, sort of a "whoops we're in trouble but not really" thing, like a kid might make if the teacher walked into the room as they were doing something they shouldn't.

In this case, the "mother" was a distinctly feminine entity, speaking to me in my own voice, sort of urging me forward to a Holy Grail style quest.

I keep turning again and again to Ingmar Bergman's adapation of Mozart's the Magic Flute, which posits a bird-like "earth mother" witch against the father, a monk-like magus who dwells in a remote castle.

In this "honoring period" the mother spirit seemed to be pitching me to join her side in a way not unlike she does the hero at the onset of the Magic Flute. She was saying basically "you talk a lot about how we need to bring back the concept of a femal deity, instead of this male god, but you haven't made the change DEEP enough for it to be anything but lip service. This is it, this is your chance to put your $$ where your mouth is."

My initial thought in response was along the lines of "please don't kill me, oh wait, you are not going to kill me? Sweet, how may I serve thee? Just don't kill me and thy will be done." Sort of a craven response... but understandable considering the last few salvia trips have been nightmarish with a father/demon archetype moving right in and dragging "me" off to the dismemberment conveyor belt. I'm hoping that now I'll be protected, as Lady S wants me for some sort of courtly love style mission.

The weird thing too, was to realize what a powerful hold the "male" god had on me, way more than I thought there would be. Worshipping a female deity seemed like a "betrayal," like joining the room of "half-men" like Norman Bates, who let the voice of the mother completely overrun his boundaries. I don't think I've "crossed over" back to the mother but I'm enjoying playing YOJIMBO with the archetypes.

Seeing THE DA VINCI CODE undoubtedly factored into it.

Also, perhaps once one becomes fully mature as a man and doesn't need to hack at the apron strings, then they can return to the goddess freely and of their own will?

[ May 22, 2006, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: M. Twilite ]

[Caprinardo Delirio]

soo, tell me - where did you get the norman bates idea, and could you maybe talk a bite on that?!

that signature qoute of yours is beautiful! - in a way it plays well with your own game of yojimbo..

[Caprinardo Delirio]

oh right, you didn't present your idea of half-men, which you icon to yourself with the picture of norman bates, you were using that entire moving image to express a feeling. jæs!

[M. Twilite]

Just the idea of having a maternal voice speaking to you from the power seat of your ego, taking over so to speak, and being able to maintain a "whole" masculine self-image in the face of that cthonian onslaught.

Norman lost the battle in that regard.

I'm a film critic by day, and so am always reaching for "touchstone" films to use as handy metaphors.

[Caprinardo Delirio]

i still can't get over how great your signature is..

[M. Twilite]

Thanks! You should check out his book, THE DROWNED BOOK. He was the father of Rumi. It's his only work, his notebook, which holds everything from gardening tips to sex advice, to best times to pray, to his thoughts while watching the pretty girls go by... you know, real "here I am writing in my notebook" stuff, but done by a highly influential 13th century Sufi mystic.

[Axl Omega]

I have acquired advice in the form of spoken messages at several times in my life. The most important one probably was a voice that told me "To not ever relax in my life - and to always strive to move forward as best that I could by not giving up. That vacations are a great chance at achieivng a perfect delusion, but not entirely of any usefull consequence as helpfll in the long run."

As far as voices from beyond then, besides this talk. Everytime a spirit has come to me I ended up telling them that they were totally nuts. That what they said could never be possible and for them to just go away. But surprisingly, as odd or out of place that their predictions often were, they always turned out to be true eventually. It is only the tricky way that it had been worded that made it difficult to be trusted.

And so I believe that all spirits like to have fun with people as much as deliver messages. Or also that in order to keep people from taking unfair advantage of wisdom from them, so then they always choose to cloak their information in mysterious or easily forgettable ways. (Some of both humour and cover up both being a motive probably)

As far as the quote here:
"God the Father" ... just curious: Did He have a long white beard?"

Well not wanting to be at odds with the Master here, to be frank personally I have to tell you that I don't believe in a "God" as is defined by relgion as is most commonly done today. I mean what person could keep an interest in his own creation for so long without wretching about it all too often, with them all being so imperfect as ever compared to him. And with him having to carry around all of that guilt for his ever failing in the first place in so many cases.

And if so a God like that, then where is it that he retires to after the world is entirely over? Does he go out and do it all again, and if so - then how come that is not just an utter boredom additionally - as it is only being a perfect re-run of the original? Who likes eternally redundant re-makes or re-runs of old favorites anyway? If then, he must look a lot like Howard Hughes in that case.

[Douglas]

Axl Omega,

Well not wanting to be at odds with the Master here,...I appreciate that.

...to be frank personally I have to tell you that I don't believe in a "God" as is defined by relgion as is most commonly done today. I mean what person could keep an interest in his own creation for so long without wretching about it all too often, with them all being so imperfect as ever compared to him.Only someone perfect in knowledge, wisdom, and love.

And with him having to carry around all of that guilt for his ever failing in the first place in so many cases.God never failed. It is we who fail. God's purpose was to have INDEPENDENT beings capable of love. To have that, they have to have free will. Having free will, the choice(s) is (are) theirs.

And if so a God like that, then where is it that he retires to after the world is entirely over?The world will never end. It will merely be changed. The Earth and its works (of corruption and sin) will be destroyed, and God will create new Heavens and a new Earth, which will exist forever. (Not to mention that where God dwells now has apparently never not existed.)

Does he go out and do it all again, and if so - then how come that is not just an utter boredom additionally - as it is only being a perfect re-run of the original?"Boredom"? Do you ever get bored of being in the conscious and full presence of the one you love, in a state of full and conscious love?

Who likes eternally redundant re-makes or re-runs of old favorites anyway? If then, he must look a lot like Howard Hughes in that case.You are arguing as if God were a mere human being. He is not.

[Douglas]

Caprinardo Delirio,

did you find hitler in your heart yet?Gosh, no. But your effort to convert me is appreciated, sort of.

[bordendazed]

What is heard is only in based reference to the hearer.

If a god were to communicate, would we register it as human?

If a god was, would we register it at all - for infinity is beyond comprehenson.

(As an aside that is how I can be an atheist and a spiritualistic being)

What is heard, is not always what is transmitted/transferred, and therefore is no longer "first entity"

We all have our interpretations, and we all interpret our haves.

"...but will you still love meeee, tomorrow..."

[M. Twilite]

Nicely posted, Borden.

By the same token, that is WHY we are here, to interpret and translate the cosmic message.

WHY? So God can have a good laugh.

Like when I ask my dog "what's two and two?" and she just cocks her head confusedly, then just assumes I meant "sit" and sits, confident a biscuit will soon be hers.

So cute!

[Agent Smith]

oh i suppose i'll admit that i 'channel'... but when godforms pester me with the Cosmic Debris, i prefer to 'change the channel.'

the energies of the I Ching are ever so much more enlightening than atlantean mummies spewing verbage.

who needs it?

[M. Twilite]

Those of us who are---for the nonce--strangers to the I Ching. We need it! We need our mummies.

[ June 01, 2006, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: M. Twilite ]

[Caprinardo Delirio]

hey douglas,

glad to see you taking an straight-faced, good-humoured interest (i think..).. i wonder if you read, or would like to read, that talk that the psychologist of religion and comparative philosopher alan watts did on carl jung that i've posted in the 'transformations' section?

it centers on some of the prejudices and problems i have with certain "religious" people, christians mostly, because well, i was raised in a country with a still rather strong residual protestant flavour.

it's in that context that the hitler thing which was meant both as a joke and as a serious statement of essential enlightenment could maybe yield some intersting discussion...

[Axl Omega]

You are arguing as if God were a mere human being. He is not.No - actually I am not arguing that any form of a "God" doesn't exist at all, and only that he is just not anything at all like a living being. (At least as concerns some parameters of the argument)

I didn't say that I don't believe in "God" at all, or not in the existance of a "Godhead" figure either - in my statements actually. Just how people most commonly misinterpret what prayer is supposed to do for you, as in asking for a new car or job etc. Actually prayer is not for selfish needs, and in some cases is only so that the grieving can get over their loss and will not save a life always either. if that was always possible then we might mistakenly preserve people who actually need to die, and so cause chaos in the world instead of helping it to progress or stay sane.
One cannot pray a lie - Mark Twain I think that differant spirits or former persons play the part of God in the spirit world for this plane, perhaps even trading off with that position every so many number of years. Or if you would, that any benevolent spirit will serve as the designated leader if called upon. (Such as any Saint or formerly departed person who is not traditionally dead) Just that not any one person
is at the top - who thought it all up originally - is all I am debating. That is just so ludicrous
a thought if you examine it with a realistic attitude.

So for example of how my version of a "God" might work, is in how when one spirit of a person recently deceased (who died only 10 years ago) visited me at least twice, and was someone who I didn't even know personally. And he only came to me because we had a common friend of acquintence. He told me to discuss with that mutual friend who could it be that a common friend of ours was. This all was because he had been btten by a spider and would lose his leg if not treated quickly enough. So the plan of the spirit friend of his was for me to make him remember who he had
been once so that he could with that remembering enter into him and make him feel the sickness that he was unknowingly suffering from, so that he would seek professional help.

So I stumbled around concerning the subject with him as to who it possibly could be who had once was his friend in the past before, and who had died. And didn't ever get it all ironed out actually as to who it could have been. But two days later I came back into his shop, and he had an IV attached to his leg, and then reported that he had found out that he had almost lost his leg if he would have waited any longer to seek help. (3 days) Then that after I had talked to him that day that he had started feeling ill later on that night and that is why he consulted a doctor the next day and so was consequently saved.

So just let me add this quote from Alleister Crowley that sort of pertains to how we misinterpret religion:

It will never do for his Christ to be a man of like passions with himself, else people might expect him to aim at a life like it was Christ's. He wants to wallow and swill - and hope for an impossible heaven.

[ June 02, 2006, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Axl Omega ]

[drew hempel]

In 1995 I had such a powerful dream that I immediately wrote it down in my journal. The dream was more vivid than being awake and I saw my activist friends and native americans standing on the roof of a house in order to protect a wooded area in Minneapolis. I wrote in my journal "i think this dream is predicting the future."

Then in 1998 I looked at a photocopy that gave me this strange feeling -- it was a photo of an activist campaign that I had got arrested participating in. The photo was of people, my friends and native americans standing on the roof of house protesting to protect a wooded area in minneapolis. This issue was called "the Minnehaha Free State" and was on the front page of the http://earthfirst.org in 1998.

Anyway I looked at that photocopy and just had this strange feeling -- no conscious recognition of a dream I had long forgotten.

I should mention that I had been the contact person listed in the EF! Journal back starting in 1994.

Then I had decided to visit my parents the next day after I had that strange feeling looking at that photocopy and found my self paging through my old journal -- just for nostalgia I suppose.

Suddenly I came across my old journal entry and could not believe it. My dream had predicted the future 3 years in advance!! It was totally incredible!

John Dunne wrote a book on dreams and cyclic time where he kept a journal and discovered similar precognition.

His book became something of a classic but I haven't read it -- just experienced it.

drew hempel, M.A.

[jcldragon]

My first experience of Channeling was when my GrandFather died. He was a Presbyterian Minister & Master Mason, a Civil Right Activist during the 20s & 30s, and a supporter of Eugene Debs & the Socialist Party.

He attained Enlightenment at Death, and wanted to watch his own funeral. I didn't know what Channeling was at the time, but I'd know my Grandfather's vibe anywhere, so I let him watch. hehehe

[witzmountain]

This thread unraveled some time ago, but there is a channeling group in Maryland and one of the transcripts from earlier this year speaks directly about 2012. There's a link for it called 'channeling 2012' on my site http://www.witzmountain.com/2012.html