Monogamy Issues in 2012 [Archive] - Page 2

magicbean

11-22-2006, 06:40 AM

You mistake 'ecstasy' for positive polarity. Ecstasy is unification. It is
pleasure and it is pain and it is neither. And I never said it is easy.
Change is mobility of consciousness (and life). But what is riding the
changes?

Ecstasy is more commonly defined as I referred to it. I would say you're talking about equanimity. I think that makes it clearer.

Every pleasure and every pain is self-created. They may seem to
be triggered by external stimulus or events, but the entire experience
is internal....a mix of perceptions with memories and interpretations.
What we once thought was 'pleasure' and exciting and great, we may
one day discover was pure pain and torture. That is a really interesting
discovery in itself.

But aside from all of that is the key ingredient which tends to get
overlooked in all of the ruminations. Concsiousness - our own - is
behind it all. We make our reality. We make the pain and we make
the pleasure.

All true, and we all love the theory but don't (yet!) live the practice of utter non-judgment. Rare is the person who has the presence of mind to live in perfect equanimity. If anyone here does, I will still eat my pants. With equanimity. Try telling a Bombay rag picker or a torture victim that we are all responsible for our own happiness and unhappiness. And in the meanwhile, while we're all busily working towards non-judgment, I think it's more practical and honest to admit that we do very humanly feel pain and cause pain and act out of ego and are learning to develop the skill to accept discomfort. Discomfort is. You cannot avoid it...until you've learned perfect equanimity

nyk

11-22-2006, 07:38 AM

All true, and we all love the theory but don't (yet!) live the practice of utter non-judgment. Rare is the person who has the presence of mind to live in perfect equanimity. If anyone here does, I will still eat my pants. With equanimity. Try telling a Bombay rag picker or a torture victim that we are all responsible for our own happiness and unhappiness. And in the meanwhile, while we're all busily working towards non-judgment, I think it's more practical and honest to admit that we do very humanly feel pain and cause pain and act out of ego and are learning to develop the skill to accept discomfort. Discomfort is. You cannot avoid it...until you've learned perfect equanimity

If anyone ever reached a state of 'perfection', then what would they do?

It's all well and good to deflect this onto Bombay rag pickers and such,
but what about magicbean?

Also, give yourself credit for also feeling beauty and causing beauty
while you are acknowledging suffering.

nanouk

11-22-2006, 09:18 AM

Ahhh! Nirvana... :D It will come all who strive for non-judgement and "perfection", despite discomfort, and the ragpickers and torture victims will definately reach it.
Magic, nyk, it is nice of you to comfort all "lost" and seeking teenagers and yes, people of all ages who find themselves here...

Love and Respect,
~n~

nyk

11-22-2006, 09:33 AM

Yes. We are all simply living in denial of ourselves. Our true self. That is
absolutely undefineable and yet is also a totality. It is totality.

The surest way to move thru and transform anything is to first say YES
to it, whatever it is. Total acceptance. No matter what it is. Enter into
it completely. Turn around inside it, become it. Then walk it - yourself -
in a new direction. Anything short of total acceptance perpetuates the
conflict by butting heads with it and holding it as it is. Yes there is
suffering and failure and all kinds of other things too. But let's get more
practical with this. When you are engaged in battle and face your
opponent with swords drawn, can you afford any thought of failure in
that standoff, any lack of confidence, any slack? Not if you hope to
survive. So, while we must acknowledge the full spectrum of manifest-
ation, we must ourselves always be in the saddle with sword drawn.

Fusion of male and female in the chest - the sternum - bring it there
and hold it there. And keep holding it there. It is a deep and singular
compression - in the Soul. And breathe. And let everything above
and below and around that core start to melt and flow.

nanouk

11-22-2006, 09:37 AM

Verbal or Artistic sword, that is ;) ...unless what is dear and near you is in immediate danger...
~n~

nyk

11-22-2006, 09:48 AM

I have to remember that not everyone is involved in martial arts. ;)

A sword is a metaphor for an extension of self into environment. A pen
is also a sword. The concept of always having sword out means to always
be extended into and thru the world, not just be a static (and certainly
not a collapsed) stillness.

One could say it represents a dynamic between the inner and outer
worlds. The metaphor of sword is used because it brings the issue to
a matter of life-and-death, not out of brutality, but because it forces
consciousness into acute awareness. And out of such enhanced
awareness comes great actions and also great appreciations too.

nanouk

11-22-2006, 10:42 AM

Now You're talking, nyk, of course the pen, brush, or tongue are the most potent weapons in history, i do not know much in detail about people like W. Churchill(please put me right if any objections, those in the know!), but i like his tongue, especially between, himself and Lady Astor *lol*

Much Respect, :)
~n~

nanouk

11-23-2006, 04:49 AM

nyk, this one's for you!*lol
http://www.kidlink.org/italiano/liste/kidproj-italiano/descrizione/images/pippi.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo79LHO0zhI

~n~

nyk

11-23-2006, 06:58 AM

Yep. Typical day in my life.

:o

nanouk

11-23-2006, 07:24 AM

Ole!

Take the Bull by the horns and you'll be fine...

if you want a head scramble, if you can get out of that full-lotus that will say...start researching TT which is supposedly the word of G-D, go to Babelfish, and type in any beautiful keyword that you can think of, translate it into Greek, and jot it down....start with.....

....say Thunderbird, or Rock, Pizza(as we know, a little piece of G-D), Fox, Son, Daughter, you keep your mind busy for a while, while i watch Jeff Buckley RIP, and more Pippi on YouTube...

TT= The The

Rock The Free World.

~N~

nanouk

11-23-2006, 07:26 AM

Beats that sodding Sudoku any Day! ;D

nyk

11-23-2006, 07:34 AM

if you want a head scramble, if you can get out of that full-lotus that will say...start researching TT which is supposedly the word of G-D, go to Babelfish, and type in any beautiful keyword that you can think of, translate it into Greek, and jot it down....start with.....

As if coming to BOtH isn't head scramble enough. :errf:

But what the heck. Into Greek you say? Okay.

nanouk

11-23-2006, 07:55 AM

...and don't forget to put Jose Feliciano on, will you? *lol* get the Gypsy in you going...

~n~

nyk

11-23-2006, 07:58 AM

του λυκόφωτος

Well, that's the first word that came to me.

...get the Gypsy in you going...

Now you are scaring me.

I am going to go out now...and see if mistletoe is growing on any madrones...

nanouk

11-23-2006, 08:01 AM

...or even better, Paco de Lucia ;)

nanouk

11-23-2006, 08:01 AM

no double t though...?

nyk

11-23-2006, 08:03 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFuRD3uiw3U

nanouk

11-23-2006, 08:04 AM

Oh! now i know who you are...why did you change your username?
~n~

nyk

11-23-2006, 08:06 AM

no double t though...?

Double t came back double t. :errf:

Oh! now i know who you are...why did you change your username?

Huh? I've only been here 2 months, and with one name. Are you talking
some other forum?

nanouk

11-23-2006, 08:09 AM

:cool: nice flute!

nanouk

11-23-2006, 08:33 AM

"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth, and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit."

Bill Hicks 1961-1994

Isaiah Mpski

11-23-2006, 09:43 AM

I used to drift,then I got some snow.

nanouk

11-23-2006, 04:06 PM

Double t came back double t. :errf:

Huh? I've only been here 2 months, and with one name. Are you talking
some other forum?

sorry, there used to be a "Twilight" posting here, dualities, you know...:confused:

~n~

nyk

11-23-2006, 04:13 PM

or projections of consciousness.

my world is a twilight world - that's where the alchemy occurs.

nanouk

11-24-2006, 03:18 AM

i understand...and i will meditate on that for a while...

...by the way, it turns out that TT occurs in the ancient Druid Ogham alphabet too but upside down for Oak: "Quercus - Oak - Duir" Luis is TT which is Blaze/Herb.
~n~

magicbean

11-24-2006, 04:19 AM

If anyone ever reached a state of 'perfection', then what would they do?

start all over again! there's that darn spiralling "everything changes" principle again.

It's all well and good to deflect this onto Bombay rag pickers and such,
but what about magicbean?

Well, I'm not suffering! At least not at this very moment. I'm asking how someone who says it's all about pleasure-seeking and mobility of consciousness would look at one of those folks and say with a clear, compassionate conscience that if they only were in a better frame of mind and looked at it differently, it would all be OK and they wouldn't be suffering. It's great to be theoretical about ecstatic union and equanimity and the flow of consciousness, and really I believe it, but ya gotta walk the walk too. Otherwise it's just words.

Or: great in theory, but what's the practical reality of it?

Also, give yourself credit for also feeling beauty and causing beauty
while you are acknowledging suffering.

Lordy, I do. I think I may be giving the false impression with this discussion that I personally am miserable somehow, which isn't the case: I'm the eternal optimist and my work demands it, hooray! Every stumble just an opportunity.

But this is so far from being on stated topic. Maybe we should leave this for the monogamy discussions and start another thread for chat and philosophy.

daniel

11-24-2006, 05:08 AM

I'm asking how someone who says it's all about pleasure-seeking and mobility of consciousness would look at one of those folks and say with a clear, compassionate conscience that if they only were in a better frame of mind and looked at it differently, it would all be OK and they wouldn't be suffering.

I think that you have to consider karma and reincarnation as factors. Individuals have made particular choices over a series of lives that created their present conditions. At the same time, I don't think it is a case of the "punishment" always perfectly fitting the "crime."

I liked Christopher Bache's book, "Dark Night, Early Dawn," which considers the possibility that some people take on an extra burden of suffering on behalf of the greater species-mind. Bache's book also has the best description of what the 2008 - 2010 period might be like, drawn from his psychedelic visions.

sidecross

11-24-2006, 05:49 AM

I think that you have to consider karma and reincarnation as factors. Individuals have made particular choices over a series of lives that created their present conditions. At the same time, I don't think it is a case of the "punishment" always perfectly fitting the "crime."

I liked Christopher Bache's book, "Dark Night, Early Dawn," which considers the possibility that some people take on an extra burden of suffering on behalf of the greater species-mind. Bache's book also has the best description of what the 2008 - 2010 period might be like, drawn from his psychedelic visions.

To link ‘Karma’ and ‘reincarnation’ to a particular person or ego is a great misunderstanding. Not only is it a misunderstanding; it is a proof that the self ego has a firm grip on the picture of reality.

Isaiah Mpski

11-24-2006, 06:03 AM

Has anyone else spotted Wolf's bus?I assume he is heading west if he isn't hiding out somewhere around here.
Yes and No Sidecross.The Messiah inherits the most and the best and has a hold on consciousness forever.

nyk

11-24-2006, 06:58 AM

Well, I'm not suffering! At least not at this very moment. I'm asking how someone who says it's all about pleasure-seeking and mobility of consciousness would look at one of those folks and say with a clear, compassionate conscience that if they only were in a better frame of mind and looked at it differently, it would all be OK and they wouldn't be suffering. It's great to be theoretical about ecstatic union and equanimity and the flow of consciousness, and really I believe it, but ya gotta walk the walk too. Otherwise it's just words.

Or: great in theory, but what's the practical reality of it?

I'm not sure what your point is with this exercise, but...

No being can walk the walk for any other being. We must each do what
we can with where we are and what we are. Personal responsibility.

How exactly do you define 'suffering'? Are you certain you are not
projecting? Is it possible that perhaps you are suffering even more than
that rag picker but do not know it. I certainly am. And does my suffering
deter me from my soul alignment? Absolutely not: It spurs me on.

magicbean

11-25-2006, 10:46 AM

Looked him up, Bache sounds interesting. I agree with sidecross on the karma/reincarnation though.

magicbean

11-25-2006, 11:04 AM

I'm not sure what your point is with this exercise, but...

What exercise? This is just conversation and extracting fine points of interest, isn't it? But if it's not fun for you nyk, don't suffer...seriously!

Well, to bring it round to topicality...

If you believe that consciousness is about the pursuit of sensual pleasure and gratification of its own desire, then you'll have a much different take on relationships than if you believe that consciousness has a more comfortable home in change, acceptance, and the awareness of subtlety that comes through sitting with something because it exists. I am sitting warmly in the latter spot.

If you want to take up more of the personal responsibility/suffering/pleasure roundings, and that's fine, let's start another thread and leave this one mostly on topic.

gandydancer

11-25-2006, 02:29 PM

No being can walk the walk for any other being. We must each do what
we can with where we are and what we are. Personal responsibility.

How exactly do you define 'suffering'? Are you certain you are not
projecting? Is it possible that perhaps you are suffering even more than
that rag picker but do not know it. I certainly am. And does my suffering
deter me from my soul alignment? Absolutely not: It spurs me on.

I agree that psychological suffering can be as great as physical suffering. But nyk, are you saying that you are experiencing the same amount of pain that the 'rag picker' is experiencing? Or are you in physical pain? ...I'm just having a hard time following your post.

gandydancer

11-25-2006, 03:29 PM

Looked him up, Bache sounds interesting. I agree with sidecross on the karma/reincarnation though.

I sure do agree on the Bache book. It is interesting as I look back over my life I can clearly see that the right book always came along at the right time. Who was it, Socrates? that made the argument that we are not really learning new stuff when we "learn" something new, but rather re-remembering stuff we knew already?

In my 20's I began to quest, but there was nothing except the Christian bible, actually new to me since I was brought up Catholic :D . I remember a conversation with the Catholic priest when I told him that it seemed to me the whole idea of Jesus' message was that he talked to *the people*, people like me, and a big part of his message was that you don't need a go-between, as though you are just too dumb to understand his message. I remember the priest saying, "Oh daughter, you are taking on a big responsibility [you ignorant errant child]". Well for chrissake, isn't that what we're supposed to do to grow up?--take on the that responsibility? But there was no support anywhere, and it wasn't till I read Eric Fromm's book The Art of Loving (which was very big in colleges at the time) that I got that "YES! I knew I was right!" feeling.

Always it has been that way for me--if I wasn't starting to get it already, reading it in a book just did not sink in. But usually that was not the case, the book confirmed what I was starting to know already.

Another book that I feel that is very important right now has also been mentioned in this thread or perhaps a different one, and that is the Chris Hedges book 'War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning' (though I think Sidecross said he now has a new one out). It seems that right now we have so separated ourselves from the earth, from the myth, and even from each other!, that we are finding life meaningless. Hedges says that he has interviewed people who experienced war, and as awful as it was, by God they say it was the best time of their life! Joseph Campbell was also well aware of this and in the discussions with Bill Moyers, Moyers says something like, "So the myths help us because they explain the meaning of life to us?". And Campbell answers, "No! To Be ALIVE!". (Perhaps I should look that up to get it a little better, but you get my drift.) ...In other words, connected to life. I feel that this is very important to understand right now as we find ourselves moving into a new age.

sidecross

11-25-2006, 04:31 PM

Chris Hedges has a book titled: What Every Person Should Know about War. It is a sobering look for those who look from the sidelines and for those who will find out first hand from the war front.

http://www.amazon.com/What-Every-Person-Should-About/dp/0743255127/sr=1-2/qid=1164504833/ref=sr_1_2/002-1282998-6371203?ie=UTF8&s=books

His new book: American Fascists: The Cristian Right and the War On America is not due out to January ’07.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Fascists-Christian-Right-America/dp/0743284437/sr=1-4/qid=1164505132/ref=sr_1_4/002-1282998-6371203?ie=UTF8&s=books

nyk

11-25-2006, 05:09 PM

What exercise? This is just conversation and extracting fine points of interest, isn't it? But if it's not fun for you nyk, don't suffer...seriously!...If you want to take up more of the personal responsibility/suffering/pleasure roundings, and that's fine, let's start another thread and leave this one mostly on topic

Oh funny Bean! You're the one took us to Bombay as I recall. :p

...If you believe that consciousness is about the pursuit of sensual pleasure and gratification of its own desire, then you'll have a much different take on relationships than if you believe that consciousness has a more comfortable home in change, acceptance, and the awareness of subtlety that comes through sitting with something because it exists. I am sitting warmly in the latter spot.

Consciousness for me is about acute singular awareness...the martial
arts kind. That is for me the entire goal of standing apart from the yin
and exercising yang. But the body - mine, the planet's, or whatever -
is yin. As I see it the most important thing to do is to recover child-
hood. We have taken a long detour - or strange reverie - since the age
of seven. My path is to crystalize a pearl out of that adventure and in
turn hand it to the child that sits within me awaiting my return. We may
be getting into Sufi territory here...but I am not versed in their lang-
uages.

nyk

11-25-2006, 05:14 PM

I agree that psychological suffering can be as great as physical suffering. But nyk, are you saying that you are experiencing the same amount of pain that the 'rag picker' is experiencing? Or are you in physical pain? ...I'm just having a hard time following your post.

If it was too easy to follow it would likely become mundane. Each being is
the Universe. Literally. We each got quite a spectrum of experiences in
that chamber of all kinds. We have embarked into an adventure in
consciousness - of a holotropical kind. A virtuality that is very vivid. That
was the idea. And now we are learning to operate within that context in
new ways......to play better than ever!

sidecross

11-25-2006, 05:56 PM

All Praises to the Pause

By Alice Walker

In These Times

Wednesday 22 November 2006

One of the many gifts I received from strangers after writing The Color Purple 24 years ago was a bright yellow volume of the I Ching. It opened to the 63rd hexagram: "After Completion." This is a time when a major transition from confusion to order has been completed and everything is (at last!) in its proper place even in particulars. Interestingly, according to the I Ching, this is a time not of relaxation, but of caution.

The I Ching is a compass of great value. Uncanny in its ability to share its Wisdom at just the moment it is required. How many friends, even best and closest friends, can do that?

What it is referring to in this hexagram is something that I am going to call "the pause." The moment when something major is accomplished and we are so relieved to finally be done with it that we are already rushing, at least mentally, into The Future. Wisdom, however, requests a pause. If we cannot give ourselves such a pause, the Universe will likely give it to us. In the form of illness, in the form of a massive Mercury in retrograde, in the form of our car breaking down, our roof starting to leak, our garden starting to dry up. Our government collapsing. And we find ourselves required to stop, to sit down, to reflect. This is the time of "the pause," the universal place of stopping. The universal moment of reflection.

I encourage you not to fear it. And why is it important not to fear the pause? Because some of the most courageous people on earth are scared of it, as I have been myself. Why is this? It is because the pause has nothing in it; it feels empty. It feels like we have been jettisoned into wide open, empty space. We can not see an end to it. Not seeing an end to it, or for that matter, not even understanding a beginning or a need for it, we panic. We may decide to make war, for instance, in the moment the Universe has given us to reflect. By the time we recover from our hasty activity a thousand small children may be lying dead at our feet.

Sometimes there is a feeling of not being able to continue. That, in this pause, whichever one it is, there is no movement. No encouragement to move, at all.

As a culture we are not in the habit of respecting, honoring, or even acknowledging the pause. (Culturally the most common reference to the pause was given over to Coca-Cola, which promised "The pause that refreshes." In other words, whenever there is a moment you are not busily doing something, Eat. Drink. And here's what we want you to eat or drink.) Women know this very well. At menopause, a time of extremely high power and shapeshifting, we are told to behave as though nothing is happening. To continue the "game" of life as if we are still girls. We are not girls. And to continue to act as though we are robs the world and the coming generations of our insights - insights readily available to us during this particular time, which is a highly significant universal moment of reflection.

I am convinced that in earlier times women during menopause drifted naturally to the edge of the village, constructed for themselves a very small hut, and with perhaps one animal for company - and one that didn't talk! - gave themselves over to a time without form, without boundaries. They were fishing in deep waters, reflecting on a lifetime of activity and calling up, without consciously attempting to do so, knowledge that would mean survival and progression of the tribe.

During the pause is the ideal time to listen to stories. But only after you have inhabited Silence for long enough to find it comfortable. Even blissful. There are stories coming to us now from every part of the earth; and they are capable of teaching us things we all used to know. For instance, I listened to a CD called "Shamanic Navigation" by John Perkins. In it he talks about the Swa people of the Amazon. These are indigenous people who've lived in the Amazon rain forest for thousands of years. They tell us that in their society men and women are considered equal but very different. Man, they say, has a destructive nature: it is his job therefore to cut down trees when firewood or canoes are needed. His job also to hunt down and kill animals when there is need for more protein. His job to make war, when that becomes a necessity. The woman's nature is thought to be nurturing and conserving. Therefore her role is to care for the home and garden, the domesticated animals and the children. She inspires the men. But perhaps her most important duty is to tell the men when to stop.

It is the woman who says: Stop. We have enough firewood and canoes, don't cut down any more trees. Stop. We have enough meat; don't kill any more animals. Stop. This war is stupid and using up too many of our resources. Stop. Perkins says that when the Swa are brought to this culture they observe that it is almost completely masculine. That the men have cut down so many trees and built so many excessively tall buildings that the forest itself is dying; they have built roads without end and killed animals without number. When, ask the Swa, are the women going to say Stop?

Indeed. When are the women, and the Feminine within women and men, going to say Stop?

I used to be suicidal. I grew up in the white supremacist, fascist South, where the life of a person of color was in danger every minute. For many years I thought of suicide on an almost daily basis. Other than this, and severe depression caused by the inevitable childhood traumas and initiations, I am not a person innately given to despair. However, it has been despairing to see the ease with which women, after over thirty intense years of Feminism, have chosen to erase their gender in language by calling each other, and themselves, "guys." This is the kind of thing one can reflect on during a pause. Are we saying we're content to be something most of us don't respect? Conjure up an image of a guy. What attributes does it have? Is that really you? Is this a label you gave yourself?

What does being called "guys" do to young women? To little girls?

Isn't the media responsible for making it "cute" to be a guy, as if that's all the Women's Movement was about, turning us into neutered men, into guys? For guys don't have cojones, you know. They are men, but neutered, somehow. So if you've turned in your breasts and ovaries for guyness, you've really lost out.

And does this make you remember that when we were trying to get the ERA, the Equal Rights Amendment, passed, which would have assured equal rights to women, suddenly the market and our television screens were flooded with a new dishwashing liquid called, you remember, Era. A not-so-subtle message that equal rights for women was still associated mainly with the kitchen and a sink full of dirty dishes. And it must have been in the '60s, when women were claiming their freedom to have a good time, that the dishwashing liquid magnates came up with a concoction called Joy.

The intuitive part of us, the deep feminine, whether in male or female, knows when we are being ridiculed, laughed at, told to forget about being women, or having a Feminine, being wild, or being free; led to sleep if not to the slaughter. In those small areas where we do have some control, the words coming out of our mouths, for instance:

When are we going to say STOP?

Alice Walker is the author, most recently, of We Are the Ones We Have Been Waiting For: Light in a Time of Darkness (The New Press), from which this essay was adapted.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/112506G.shtml

nyk

11-25-2006, 06:44 PM

snow

12-09-2006, 03:59 AM

if you are lucky enough to be given a tantric partner in this life, treat them like GOLD. it is not so fucking easy to get a tantric partner, OR a karmic one for that matter, and all this talk of screwing around is annoying!!!

people women are not fucking steps to take they have consequences!

the yogi who sat in samadhi for years only to ask for his soup when he got out of samadhi. his partner said, you can sit in samadhi for 15 years, but you are still attatched to your belly.

that's how your partner can help you. not by licking your balls.

Isaiah Mpski

12-09-2006, 04:16 AM

Would you settle both Both?

Stay with me children.I'm just warming up.

Did you go out and get laid last night Lord CM?Enjoyed my post about exposing Damiens berries to the moonlite sky in "Big Mac" the local holding tank for murdereeres and the like did you.Yeah i laughed about that too until I read more about sunspot avtivity.
Wipes out satellites eventually-quite regularily in fact..as well as your berries.
And you Nanouk.I pray for you every morning and look where it has gotten us .I think,and I say this with reluctance.If you can't find me a diesel powered car for me to come and pick up for me squaw's christmas gift,i'm just going to have to suffer..
We could perhaps get a good deal for ones' passage say,they could be guaranteed a seat.

nanouk

12-09-2006, 09:04 AM

I was thinking about this today a little bit. There were a couple of wee
ones playing near our car as we picniked on the shore of a glacial lake,
rain turning almost to snow was pelting the scene. A mother was near
by, and nudged a little bit our direction as the kids strayed just so far.
I got to thinking about bears. They are a good example of no-nonsense
mothers. If you are in range of those cubs, you are in great trouble. I
thought about how civilized women have been somehow subverted from
such a simple, yet powerful intent. They send their kids to obviously
stupid wars created by obviously stupid men. Why do they let that
shit happen? That's only one example of where they have given it
away. When are they going to say enough? When it gets worse? I don't
know.

nyk, you are asking the wrong forum i think, i know for a fact there are a lot of Mother's out there that have no option than encouraging their Son's to join the army in order to get an education, and then the shit hits the fan and they have their hearts wrenched....how can a "civilized" society do this to their citizens???!!!

...in 2006 anyway...i thought we have come further in evolution than that...

...and the cubs...well...they need to find their own scent, not be warned about every wellbeing creature around, bought mine reigns when they were 2, 'cause i saw other Mum's using them, put them on one day, and felt sick!

I have lost my voice several times taking my cubs for walks along the canal, in town, in the super mareket, because the guidance of teaching them how to behave is going to benefit my little one's more than staying at home, or restraining their movement, or suspecting ill meaning from any individual approaching us...

"touch wood", they are street wise, but still innocent, and know their dragon fly from their damsel...and their danger from their safe distance.

snow, i like what you express about a partner being more than a being being there for your being ;)

Isaiah, i've got an old Leyland Terrier Telecom Truck, 1986 i think, diesel, fully converted into a home, kitchen sink, wood burner, tongue and groove wood insulation, but no, no little Peugeot 105 diesel if that's what you're looking for...my truck cost me £100, you can have it for £150.

Love and Respect,

~n~

Isaiah Mpski

12-09-2006, 12:31 PM

I think Mary Magdeline would love it.
Where is it?
Would you like to run off to Mexico=Puerto Valarte for a few days.
Maybe Mommy or the signicant other would watch the bears for you.

sidecross

12-09-2006, 12:59 PM

if you are lucky enough to be given a tantric partner in this life, treat them like GOLD. it is not so fucking easy to get a tantric partner, OR a karmic one for that matter, and all this talk of screwing around is annoying!!!

people women are not fucking steps to take they have consequences!

I could not agree more! We, justplaincross & sidecross, have 42 years together and while it has not always been easy, it was well worth the energy spent.

We consider ourselves very fortunate.

Isaiah Mpski

12-10-2006, 01:08 PM

Think how much better it could have been with twins.

nyk

12-10-2006, 01:29 PM

nyk, you are asking the wrong forum i think, i know for a fact there are a lot of Mother's out there that have no option than encouraging their Son's to join the army in order to get an education, and then the shit hits the fan and they have their hearts wrenched....how can a "civilized" society do this to their citizens???!!!

Because we are 'civilized'. We have lost touch with nature and soul. We
are like Mel Gibson....we have become our demons.

Isaiah Mpski

12-10-2006, 02:34 PM

Money Nanouk.The need for an "moral" way to make a living.

jar

12-12-2006, 04:19 PM

On this subject, I have to say that while I have the greatest respect for the herculean work Daniel put into 2012, the bits about him grappling with the issue of monogamy struck me as entirely over-complicated and hyper-intellectualized. I mean, we're talking here about the age-old, predominantly male problem of keeping one's dick in his pants. One can get lost in the labrynthine corridors of one's own head to the degree that one loses sight of simple, natural truths. The path of transformation, enlightenment, whatever you want to call the process of finding whatever it is you are looking for, is an entirely solitary and self-indulgent endeavor. This path sometimes means indulging one's desires to an extreme degree. You can't just walk this highly idiosyncratic, deeply personal, perhaps even dangerous path, hook up with someone along the way and expect them to happily trot along beside you! Only an extremely selfish person who had no idea what they were doing would attempt this. Love exists as a real energy, a state of mind "outside of time" as we say so often in these circles. It is a living, conscious energy that requires our attention and care for it to thrive, like any living thing does. If there is real love in a relationship, love that is felt not here and there, but as a constant, indescribably beautiful warm glow, then the idea of sex with someone else would be like eating crumbs off the floor when you have the most incredibly satisfying banquet on the table in front of you. Is monogamy "natural"? Within the context of real love, of course it is. Outside this context, it feels restrictive and unreasonable to us. If you want a simple answer, one without adult intellectualizing involved, ask a child whether she thinks it is better for her to have her parents together exclusively in love, or whether she thinks it is okay for Daddy to be with other women besides Mommy whenever he has the urge.

Daniel wasn't ready for a serious love relationship, yet he allowed himself to fall into one anyway. Daniel wasn't ready to be a father to a child, yet fathered one anyway. Both mother and child have suffered for this. Of course, mother is culpable too for her failure to see Daniels' true priorities and understand her place among them.

Children are extremely vulnerable for many years until they become adults. During this time they need to know real love from their parents in order to know it and keep it within themselves. Kids have it naturally, but if the parents don't reflect it back to them sufficiently, the kids forget about it as they grow up. For every adult out there who lacks compassion, there's at least two people responsible. If there is a lack of love and compassion in the world, it's because we haven't taught it to our children. Our relations with each other ultimately reflect our own inner glow or relative depravity in relation to the energy of real love being felt in the heart. In this light, the highest good a man and a woman can do while living is to bring to the party a real live, beautifully compassionate, peaceful, courageous, fearless and understanding person through raising a healthy child. I don't care who you are, how rich you are, how poor you are, how spiritually exalted or enlightened you think you are, if you haven't done this with your life (or at least tried to), then you screwed it up. You were just another animal running around the planet trying to get his/her rocks off and you created another one. Or two. Or three. You want to do something important Daniel? Something that benefits mankind? Start over, abandon alll this self-indulgent, self-aggrandizing nonsense you've convinced yourself is so fulfilling. You're just jerking off with this Quetzalcoatl. You and he are interesting together, but who really gives a shit? Kick him out. Find real love inside yourself as a constant presence, find yourself a woman who has found this in herself and make a baby together. This will be an entirely different journey. But a journey worthy of one hell of a book! One that will cut to the essence of the malady that really plagues mankind: The lack of knowledge of the true nature of love in all it's different relational expressions.

Daniel has done a fine job of finding the lights and colors and delights of the physical universe, that grand, ancient, amusement park accessible through the mind and available to us all. He has developed his intellectual faculties and apparently transformed his consciousness (whatever that means) to an astounding degree. But so what? To what end? So he could stand on a rock and hold up the head of an unconscious human archetype for all to see? Lookee everybody! Look what I found! And it talks! Wow hey, that's really great man, but who are those two people standing behind you looking completely ambivalent?

Having children is ultimately the only power we have to change the world, to transform human consciousness. Our children will naturally surpass us if we don't steer their little hearts straight into our adult pain and confusion. Which is, of course what we will naturally do if we don't find our own hearts first and work through it's pain. Daniel Pinchbeck is a perfect example of a child's heart in pain who escaped into his head as an adult. Finding the contents of his head unsatisfying, he put in on the rack, broke it open with medicine and forced it to reveal it's secrets. How's it going there Daniel? Satisfied yet? I mean, this is all really interesting but....who are you?

Vajra Guru

01-30-2007, 03:14 PM

I am a little suprised that there is a whole thread on the sexual element of Daniels life, though having scanned through earlier posts it seems the topic has wandered around somewhat. In my limited experience the spiritual path tends to lead one away from base sexual issues. Everbody knows that man is full of sexual demons, ghosts of past lovers, hidden desires and perversions. To explore this is to risk attracting even more of this energy to oneself, yet to pretend that one is past it due to spiritual realisations that have yet to actually occur is merely denial and will lead to equally probelatic repression issues.

I have a complex sexual make up, like many people. I expect that most of us have had thoughts about are sexual nature that are far deeper than simply, "am I more geared up for monogamy or polygamy?"

However does that mean that we need to embark on a sexual quest as far reaching as the spiritual or intelectual ones?

For my money the answer is no, I actually see that as a good way to end up in a sexual quag mire and end up some 'Marquis De Sade' type character, until ending up dead found self aesphyxiated in a brothel wearing pink leather with a dildo up my ass. During my spiritual work I have always found that my sexual desires and thoughts have actually evaporated.

Sex is the lowest form of love and relating, it can however be brought onto a level almost on par with true meaningful love that exists in relationships. However even love is not the last stage of the refining process, beyond that is compassion, which can also exhist in a love relationship when its brought to the highest level. Compassions is not only the domain of world teachers and enlightened Guru's. Compassion can be thought of as love + meditation.

Now I have had ups and downs with my practice, and that is how I have gained a firm insight here (at least for myself) in respect to sex and enlightenment. There is a reason why most great spiritual practioners, male or female, are not going around bonking everything that moves, and to be fair they are usually such pleasent types to be around that if they wanted sex it would be availible to them. The fact is that as the mind is refined through practice it lets go of certain physical desires that do not bring about sustained happiness nor lead to the happiness of others, sex is just one of those things. Its not got rid of because its bad, just the desire for it fades over time as a part of the meditation process working on the mind.

Many of the more realised Buddhist teachers have stated very accurately that if there was just one other physical desire as strong as sex nobody would ever enter the spiritual path in earnest. This is a clear honest recognition that sex is the strongest desire mankind has, there is no point us denying this.

I am not trying to tell anyone to change their sexual life at all, or to judge anything about it. All I am saying is that no matter how complex we view our personal sexual self, its no more a attachment than for any other, yet we have seen for eons that spiritual masters reach a point where it is not even an issue. They have strong loving compassionate relationships with all those around them yet feel no need to make that sexual for more pleasure, as theya re getting maximum pleasure by simply being, and being with other wonderful beings around them. For my part when my practice has been on the path rolling for a while I find myself up there with them to a great degree, yet when it slips I find myself viewing some of those wonderful beings as merely recepticlas for my genetic soup, or some actor in my latest bizzare mental fantasy. The only fact I can say is the relating of the former kind brings about much more positive happy feelings than the relating of the latter kind, for me at least.

Sex is indeed beyond good and evil for the most part. Any kind of sex is fine if all involved consent, enjoy and understand any consequence. However lets be honest, sex and sexual desires can also lead people into their own personal hells. I wonder if spending time reading satanic neo-nazi sex practices can really be anything but extremely risky.

As for the issue of the only thing worthwhile for us as humans is to have children I disagree strongly. I think that the most responsible and helpful thing any of us can do is to not be selfish, not have children simply beacuse we want to, or as a our genes decree us to do. rather how about first we grow up ourselves, take some self responsibilty. Its easy to say we can change the world by having perfect children who then do the work, but thats never worked before has it?
Lets grow up, stop expecting some new generation to fix everything. The best thing we can do is work on ourselves whilst sorting ou the problems in the physical world. If we manage to get some practical and spiritual results, no not just some, a great deal of results, then perhaps thing about having a child. I for one am in no hurry to chuck someone else into a burning room that I myself am horrified to stay in lest it consume me and those in it already. How about getting the place hosed down first?

For the moment I am trying to fix thing for the children already here.

Isaiah Mpski

01-30-2007, 03:54 PM

Great post,good ambition,but impossible without THE truth.

In the beginning was the word,and the word was with God and the word was God.

Mpski 2007

Vajra Guru

01-31-2007, 02:25 AM

Hi Isaiah,

Thanks for the kind words.

I appreciate your view, but as an agnostic and a Buddhist faith in a God with no evidence is not my way to deal with life or spiritual development. However I do respect the vaidity of your own path, its just not the one for me.

The nearest I get to 'God' per se, is that aspect of existence refered to as universal conciousness, however as I understand the popular view of God as a being/entity the two are rather different, at least in peoples descriptions and feelings anyway.

As for the beggining, there could be no beggining. I would love for someone to convince me that a beggining was possible...

As for the 'word' I would suggest it was more likely actually a 'vibration' as the Hindu's suggest probaly that of 'Om', a vibration that causes manifestations, not a word in the human sense. My suggestion is that it is eternal and was not initiationary in that respect, rather has always and will always play its role in bringing things into new forms.

Many good thoughts, always happy to meet interesting people

Bruce

craazyman

01-31-2007, 04:09 AM

Why is it that half the population in Hindu and Buddhist countries want to come to Judeo-Christian countries?

When Bush or Clinton (I forgot which) visited India a guy held up a sign that said "Yankee Go Home (and take me with you)". Does this have anything to do with the suppression of individuality in those religions? Is it cooincidence? Is it for other reasons? Why do Indian women get sold for dowries like sheep?
Why do Chinese hide in tanker ships and die to get sweatshop jobs in Chinatown in New York?

Does this have anything to do with the pervasive nearly unconcious denial of the individual soul in favor of an abstract collective consciousness? Does it have to do with the slow crawl from blindness to real sight? Is it the final un-doing of the universal mind, the Janesian bicameral mind joining itself like the arm of God on the Sistine Chapel touching Adam's finger? Is it like an apple falling from a tree?

Why oh why oh why? Because because because because good bye good bye good bye.

You don't need the bearded patriarchs for this. You don't even need heaven and hell, or the sanctimony of the Christian empire, or the cleverness of metaphysical logic. You just need Gnostic Jesus transfigured by Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson and Locke and Lincoln at Gettsyburg, etc. etc. etc. Hmmmm. Sometimes it makes me wonder what's up.

Vajra Guru

01-31-2007, 06:02 AM

Hi crazyman,

Hopefully your not really expecting me to tackle your questions/ponderings in any authoritive way. For a start I live in England so it would be wrong for me to speak as though I were living somewhere in Asia.

That said I think we can start by saying its not half (50%) of the people in these asian countries, however there is obvious evidence to suggest a significant number of people would like to migrate to certain European countries as well as America.

My advice is to discount religion in this, bear in mind China is neither Buddhist or Hindu, it is a secular Communist state (although the largest underground religion is Christianity). The obvious reason for desire to migrate is socio-economic factors, we live in countries with booming economies where are working hours are both limited and well paid. We have decent health care (ish) and a good standard of living. My wife is Asian, and i know from time living out there that the represtation of the UK out there is that our streets are paved with gold and that we are all millionaires, as such its no wonder so many people want to head to this fantasy land (pure fantasy sadly). The desire to move includes Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Seeks, Atheists and a myriad of others so I think we can rule out it being some certain aspect of any religion as they are all very different paths.

Also we should look at some of the issues with suppresive and corrupt regimes. Something Asia has no great shortage of.

As for the religions I have a fairly good knowledge of different religions, but if there is no specific questions about Buddhism I would rather let you go to people that can speak with more authority on them than myself if possible. Not that i wont throw about opinions on other religions if it comes to it!

;)

craazyman

01-31-2007, 02:11 PM

Well Vajra I appreciate your good humor & yes I am a rather rough mathematician in these things, although I have a good head for numbers if there's money to be made.

I believe you're more or less correct. The illusions and delusions that bring people here. How bad it must be where they are, I often think, to come half way 'round the world for this. Oh man, the stories I have heard, they make my bones cold and nervous.

Then they get here and find it fast and hard and cold and lacking in society or community--a big tired death race. It's true, in part. but they still come, more and more. And the ones that make it and survive become almost sacred emblems of possibility and redemption, digging half their lives to shine your shoes in peace.

How lucky we are just to have the problems of the soul and free speech to vent them. The dead old men of the Enlightenment, your time has only just begun.

No Vajra, I don't expect any authoritative tackling. Leave that up to the Gnosis and you will know, you will know.

Vajra Guru

02-01-2007, 04:52 AM

So your a student of Gnosticism craazyman? (assuming that was not a joke)

I find the Gnostic gospels a fascinating source of knowledge. The writings on Simon Magus in particulair captivated me, though the Nag Hammadi is a literal treasure trove.

Do you link tha Archons with the Nephilim I wonder?

Jesus in the Gnostic gospels is every bit the Bodhisattva, compassionate and wise, yet humerous and highly unorthodox. Seeing the wisdom in one of his disciples taking his place in the crucifiction for example! (which was actually very sensible and not his suggestion)

The info on Eve and her role in all that has occurred is a must read for any thinker. Very sensible and in line with much spiritual info out there in the broader esoteric world.

Its such a shame that the more orthodox Christians threw all the old Gnostic Christians to the lions (and then pretended it was they themself who suffered at the hands of the Romans, bloody propaganda!).

Whether People in general do not like, or understand, Buddhism and Gnostic Christianity, for my money I would prefer a world with these paths as neighbours over one with Orthodox Christianity and Islam, for hundreds of reasons, however it seems to be headed that way.

There are plenty of other 'nice' spiritual paths so before anyone leaps in and flames me, I am not saying these are the only two, just two of my personal favourites...

Anyway

Isaiah Mpski

02-01-2007, 05:19 AM

Yeah Guru,thanks to you too for bringing some moral and ethical principles to this discussion board.

Vajra Guru

02-01-2007, 02:47 PM

Well if I have done that Isaiah then I am only to glad to provide something useful to the board here. Its been about a year or so since I was on here actively so I dont really know what has been going on, though looking at the reviews on Amazon in respect of Daniels books I am guessing there has been something of a running battle here as well as in the wider net community!

Can I just say I find it a bit tricky chatting to folk on here without being really sceptical of everything they say (not a bad thing I suppose lol), bearing in mind that its a 'Shamanic' wisdom orientated site. Due to this factor I pretty much assume everyone I talk to might well be a Loki trickster God type, or Archetypal Tarot Zero Card (The Fool) certainly I know that I often slip into 'crazy wisdom' mode myself so can't judge others harshly for it, especially on a site like this.

Still there are times even when tricksters have a rational five minutes and manage to write something moralistic and serious I suppose, though whether its more or less important then the rest of the stuff we all find ourselves saying at times I am unqualified to judge.

Still life would be dull if we were all just monotone fog horns blaring out the same stale lessons to each other.

So far being back here has been interesting and I look forward to talking (or argueing?) with yourself, craazyman, sidecross and all the other active members.

Karyn

02-01-2007, 03:39 PM

Dear Bruce, I have read Richard's letter and I am hoping to learn more about Richard and you. I can tell from your posts that you are a very wise person. I hope you will share your experiences..and maybe slip into some crazy wisdom...please do! Key 0 looks like a fool but it is who we really are- Superconsciousness. Without limit. Love, Karyn

Vajra Guru

02-01-2007, 04:02 PM

Hi Karyn,

Your far to kind, all I can say is that for every piece of wisdom I have gained I have made three foolish mistakes, and that for each wise thing I say I will say at least three dumb things, so please bear with me ;)

As for Richard, yes he is wise as far as I am concerned, and has a very important role to play in this time and the next few years, particularily his work involving expeditions to the pyramid. Check out www.thequestproject.com and www.ambilacuk.com to find out more about him, the team and the film in progress.

All of his wisdom and insight has been hard gained, if you read his book that will become very clear. He offers it as a free e-book, despite my insistence that he publish it and make some money to fund his work (travelling back and forth to Egypt is not cheap) he will not, and instead works for modest pay caring for the elderly in a home. We ran a group together for five years (warriors of the rainbow) and remain close friends, I think Daniel missed an opportunity to engage with someone who might have really helped him with the 2012 project and its fallout had he read the letter and responded, such is life.

For access to far more information and perhaps direct questioning, as well as to both his free e-book on life & spirit, and that of his team member Gerry's book on the Ark of the Covenant quest just swing by the main group site at www.hometospirit.com

Anyway I look forward to talking to you more and getting to know more about you. :razz:

Karyn

02-01-2007, 04:44 PM

Dear Bruce, I have also made many mistakes. The worst was inviting a being into my body. But I learned a lot from that experience. And Egypt...there is something about Egypt..... I was told that I was a high priest in the temple of Abydos. I was also told by the same channeler that I should visit that temple which is off the beaten path and get some of my energy back that I left there. Of course traveling to Egypt does not fit in with my ordinary life so I decided to visit in my mind. A psychic walk. I walked up to the temple put my hands on the outside of the building and started to cry. I broke out of this experience right away as this experience was overwhelming -I am not used to emotional outbursts.
-The little bit of knowledge I have is that Hermes came from Atlantis and traveled to Egypt. He helped to align the pyramids. Hermes was the first incarnation of Jeshua ben Joseph-Jesus.
Love, Karyn

Vajra Guru

02-01-2007, 05:05 PM

Hey again!

Very interesting about the pyramid and regaining the lost energy. I have been reading some of your posts on your interaction with E.T.E.'s elsewhere on this site to. Seems like your a pretty cool energy worker, does not suprise me at all that you have ties to the ancient Egyptian priesthood.

Yes Hermes, also known as Thoth, did indeed travel to Egypt from fallen Atlantis. He deposited his wisdom both into the building of the pyramids as well as in hidden locations there. Additionally he left the now infamous/notorious Emerald Tablets of Thoth which make worthy reading to interested parties. They get attacked a bit about their status as genuine or not, however thats a moot point for me, I say rather do they bring wisdom and realisations?
For me and others yes, and therefore they self validate.

Richard works closely with the energy of Thoth, I cant comment on the link to Yeshua but its interesting to hear you make that link. Do you have more info on that?

Thoth makes it clear he goes to and from what he calls 'the halls of Amenti' returning to new incarnations each time he visits the Earth. What is not clear is whether he utilises some kind of technology such as suspended animation, or whether he reincarnates, either way its pretty interesting stuff.

"Lift thou thine eyes to the Cosmos.
Lift thou thine eyes to the Light.
Speak in the words of the Dweller,
the chant that calls down the Light.
Sing thou the song of freedom.
Sing thou the song of the Soul.
Create the high vibration
that will make thee One with the Whole.
Blend all thyself with the Cosmos.
Grow into ONE with the Light.
Be thou a channel of order,
a pathway of LAW to the world."

Exerpt - Tablet IX

Karyn

02-01-2007, 05:55 PM

Hi Bruce, My source of information comes from Ramtha's "A Master's Reflection On the History of Humanity" "Ra-Ta-Bin was the first Pharaoh, the father of the Egyptian people. He and Hermes were the original engineers of the Great Pyramid. Ra-Ta-Bin and Hermes migrated to Egypt from Atlantis and brought with them their technology.
The perfect polar alignment of the structure caused a force-field to occur. Hermes was the first one to align them. Alignment to true north-south picks up direct energy belts and fields that keep the planet in its orbital spin around the sun. The energy created from that centrifugal motion is a higher form of energy then electricity. Thus the energy collected inside the pyramid is free of electromagnetism and polarity.
It goes on to say that the people beyond the sun...the Gods of the sun- helped in the construction. Hermes was in touch with them. There is also mention of a network of underground highways that link every pyramid together and lead to the inner Earth.
Hermes was an Ionian --the Nubians loved him. His hair was red and his eyes were blue. He was very intelligent..and good.
My information also says that Hermes and Thoth are the same person.
What a wonderful person. Love, Karyn

Karyn

02-02-2007, 12:40 PM

Karyn

02-02-2007, 01:14 PM

Thoth makes it clear he goes to and from what he calls 'the halls of Amenti' returning to new incarnations each time he visits the Earth. What is not clear is whether he utilises some kind of technology such as suspended animation, or whether he reincarnates, either way its pretty interesting stuff.

"Lift thou thine eyes to the Cosmos.
Lift thou thine eyes to the Light.
Speak in the words of the Dweller,
the chant that calls down the Light.
Sing thou the song of freedom.
Sing thou the song of the Soul.
Create the high vibration
that will make thee One with the Whole.
Blend all thyself with the Cosmos.
Grow into ONE with the Light.
Be thou a channel of order,
a pathway of LAW to the world."

Exerpt - Tablet IX

Dear Bruce, Thank you for sharing. I like it very much.
- Interesting that he is still incarnating. It is possible- if one knows about it -to incarnate with full memory. I am sure Thoth has the knowledge of that since I do..... But I also know that once one becomes a Christ there is no need to be born into a body anymore because you are now an interdimensional Being. You would be able to manifest a physical body at will.

I just looked up the definition for Incarnating: made human: having a bodily form, especially a human form.
-So my guess is he is popping in and out at will bringing new knowledge with him. Now to look into the meaning of Amenti..
Love, Karyn

nanouk

04-21-2007, 03:42 PM

I just looked up the definition for Incarnating: made human: having a bodily form, especially a human form.
-So my guess is he is popping in and out at will bringing new knowledge with him. Now to look into the meaning of Amenti..
Love, Karyn

etymology at college did me some favours...in-carn and then the ating....hmmm....?

amenti....the funeral parlour of the gyp's? who cares?

Live.

Now.

thought. anyone ever wondered about the linguistic connection between egypt and gypsy?

the link between the taboos of the jewish and the romani?

it is a small world. it is ONE planet.

Just Thinking...

Love and Respect,

~N~

Karyn

04-22-2007, 02:45 AM

etymology at college did me some favours...in-carn and then the ating....hmmm....?

amenti....the funeral parlour of the gyp's? who cares?

Live.

Now.

thought. anyone ever wondered about the linguistic connection between egypt and gypsy?

the link between the taboos of the jewish and the romani?

it is a small world. it is ONE planet.

Just Thinking...

Love and Respect,

~N~

Hi Nanouk,

Father Charles Moore says that the Tarot was taken out of
Egypt by Moses and turned into the Torah. Here is a link:
http://www.beyondtheordinary.net/fathercharlie.shtml
Scroll down to:
January 12th 2005
Two Hour Special
Dr Miceal Ledwith and Fr. Charles Moore!

He discusses why the first letter Aleph is always first in sacred
writings but has been omitted "on purpose" in the Torah.
This omission changes "The Father of the beginnings created the
Eloheim the heavens and the earth." To- "In the beginning God created
the heavens and the earth"
"Torah" is the feminine singular whose plural is Tarot.
Father Charlie goes on to say that even the Tarot is missing a
character that matches the Tarot with the DNA. The 2nd Fool. The
double zero 00 as on a roulette wheel. The 22 Keys and the 22 steps of
the initiation process of the Great Pyramid....etc...

Love,
Karyn

Isaiah Mpski

04-22-2007, 07:20 AM

Charlie Moore is practicing medicine in Austin,Texas.A talented diagnostician.

Really interesting post Karyn.
So much symbolism surrounding us.
That is why I enjoyed the words,

....be here now....

klava

08-13-2007, 12:36 PM

I would like to return this thread to a discussion of monogamy as presented in 2012. I have the following concerns:

-Much of the discussion in the book seems to me a manufactured "spiritual" justification for DP's wanting to sleep around.

-I would feel better about DP's argument if he addressed the counterviews represented in David Schnarch's (Passionate Marriage) and John Wellwood's (Love and Awakening; Journey of the Heart) works about the personal growth and spiritual transformation opportunities that may only be available in committed monogamous relationships. This is not to say that other opportunities are not available in polyamorous relationships; I am only suggesting that monogamy may present a unique opportunity for overcoming certain life-history issues and character defects.

-So much of what DP says sounds *exactly* like conversations my friends and I used to have in our 30s, lusting after men we were not married to, and yet not wanting to leave our families. "Men invented monogamy!" we would assert. "They just want their own private egg-packs," one female friend said. However, in retrospect, all of us would now agree that we were just horny...we've all either stayed in our monogamous relationships or found ourselves in new ones, to great contentment...it seems that all our complicated arguments were really just a phase... and an enormous waste of energy in the end. And then the question becomes, what do you say to partner #1 and the child about that? Oops? I realize the DP might not have this experience, but it's also true that we often feel passionately about an issue (or person) and go off on metaphysical flights about it, only to find that the page turns and poof--all the feeling behind that philosophy is just gone. Meanwhile, what's the damage done?

-The book Between Two Worlds, by Elizabeth Marquardt, raises some troubling questions about the impact of even "good" divorces on children, including arrangements in which the parents live quite close to one another and share parenting duties.

-I am not sure it is appropriate to use children as experimental subjects in exploring new relationship forms among adults.

-If a monogamous relationship is entered into, and if a child is conceived under that arrangement, then perhaps there is a spiritual contract in place...in which case, no fair changing the terms by deciding it's not true to one's nature to remain monogamous... what about being true to one's promises? What about making every effort to explore the possibilities of monogamy (again as explicated by Schnarch and Wellwood, for starters), first? It cannot be right to agree to a situation that causes someone else to make an irrevocable, life-changing decision, such as having a child, and then to simply change one's mind, or conveniently discover that one's spiritual path lies elsewhere.

-I also didn't get the connection between the whole monogamy discussion and the rest of the book.

-And if we are going to look at multiple cultural examples of non-monogamous arrangements, as DP argues we should (and we should; pity that polyandry is so rare...), shouldn't we also look at multiple cultural attitudes toward gender? What's with generalizations like "the masculine principle of consciousness" and the feminine principle of creativity? Who says we must assign gender to these principles, or any principles at all to gender? Who says lunar=feminine, solar=masculine (aren't there Amazon tribes that view the moon as male?)? How about we lose the whole yin/yang concept? I'd say it ain't a precept. Duality is likely merely a projection of the human bicameral mind. Let's get beyond it entirely. Instead of resolving polarities, let's stop having any.

-

Isaiah Mpski

08-13-2007, 12:58 PM

Because it is impossible for the human mind to do so as long as we have life and death and questions like does space ever end or when did it all begin.
It is said that one can only find peace when he or she finds oneness and that can only be found by accepting life as it is and doing our best to suffer without pain and not causing others to suffer.
I have not read Daniel's book and I do not intend to do so.I grew up in the late 60's and early 70's and find Daniel to be thus far nothing but a comical hypocrite.
And no I don't believe in marriage.I believe in contracts and love.

I am writing a couple of little books-perhaps will make one out of them.
One is about and Indian warrior named Q.Parker from whom I am 7th generation-sorry to those who already know that-My Grandfather,who would be Quanah's GGrandson looked just like him.Same mole on his cheek,same scars on his upper lip and lesg where he had been shot.You can see our picture on Yahoo group PickOverFlow-pics misc.
He(Quanah) lived an amazing life-at least nine wives by the way.He lived during a time that has been unparalled in history-the discovery and use of oil to produce energy.His life-like alot of ours was lived in large part debauchery etc because of the duality between his growing pure Indian and turning into a white man.How he solved it was to completely forget all the things that he had done wrong and the things that had been wrongly done to him.It worked for quite awhile because he lived to be more than 150.

I like this passage,

...to find heaven one must be reborn.You have to be born of first the water and then of the spirit....

craazyman

08-13-2007, 01:35 PM

klava, when you and your friends were going through your horny phase, what was your favorite break-the-ice pickup line?

I have been in self-enforced spiritual confinement for several years while I open my crown chakra, but need to get back in the game. Some sort of irresponsible 30 something would be good, but I don't do married because I'm a righteous man.

Isaiah Mpski

08-14-2007, 04:57 AM

Come on Klava.We're all waiting for your answer to CM's questions.
Particularily since Lord Hemp seems to have vanished in a mathematical vortex of some proportion.

SueBee.We sure need a lawyer in this town of Checotah(pronounced Gee Coat Ah).I might could introduce you to Carrie Underwood,if you can be bribed?

suebee

08-15-2007, 08:44 PM

"suebee, gee coat ah city attorney." i like that. why do you need one?

this monogamy thing... i think everything is hormone driven. in your twenties, you do twenties' things, in your thirties you do thirties' things... the desire for more mates is just our dna driving us to replicate.

i used to think we should sleep in herds. the operative word there is sleep so i guess i am not really adding anything to this sex thread.

Isaiah Mpski

08-16-2007, 03:05 PM

SueBee I agree with your second paragraph.I want to make Jesus again.Don't you think that is admirable?

We now only have three attyn's in Checotah.

Greg,the narcisstic,Stidham,who as well as city judge,is the DA.
Joe LeMaster,who as far as I know is not taking any new clients.His son-in-law is the third and is employed by GS.

By the way SB,your e-mail ain't working again.

I am busy working on the interrogatories.

I am again on the wagon,as you suggested,but certainly depressed.
Really went off on a couple of people yesterday.It's terrible what insulin coma can do to your emotions.

The police,for some reason,are making a supreme effort to leave me alone and I certainly appreciate it.

Hotter than hell here and lonely without my baby who has headed off for her first year of college.

What a ride eh CM.Makes you wish you had a couple of mil rt now-bunch a bargains out there.

Mentions of earthquakes scare me.If one were to hit in your backyard SB or farthur up north in Washington the market would fall at least 30-40% and that too would be a real disaster for alot of people.

willoweyes

08-17-2007, 08:36 AM

Isaiah, may I suggest you lay in a store of several pounds of bittersweet chocolate--and ginger ale. and aspirin.

Good luck my man.

Down in Texomaland, we can smell the ocean on the winds of Erin. It's cooler today and may rain. Hope the front reaches you.

Isaiah Mpski

08-17-2007, 09:23 AM

Thanks Willow for your reply.
Yes,it is certainly hot here and a bit of Erin would help.
Me.I don't eat much choclate as I'm pushing 215 and that's not good for my Bp.I'm going to crawl under the air conditioner-thank God for the man who invented them-if it were a man-and watch the tube and read something.
The garden and the interrogatories can wait until I get enough fresh water in my system to replace all the beer.
Did you folks know that for every pound you are overweight your heart has to push blood an extra mile?
Terrible about the mine disaster and the earthquake.It really bothers me that there is so much pain and suffering in this world.
And all of it could be solved so easily.
Anyway I hope you are all doing better and for any heading toward BM be sure and stop by the farm for a visit.

K.J

08-17-2007, 09:54 AM

suebee

08-17-2007, 06:54 PM

thank you K.J for the link to those talks.

willoweyes

05-25-2008, 02:19 PM

wow, in trying to put my grizzly-claw mark on the tree up above that a-hole spammer (Which, if my spell worked, should have just missed getting to the toilet in time when the diarhea kicks in, right about now). he'll put it down to all those beers he drank at the memorial day party--but we know the truth.

in any event, he'll never be back. For some reason he can't put his finger on, he just doesn't feel like it anymore,.

"Can I just say I find it a bit tricky chatting to folk on here without being really sceptical of everything they say (not a bad thing I suppose lol), bearing in mind that its a 'Shamanic' wisdom orientated site. Due to this factor I pretty much assume everyone I talk to might well be a Loki trickster God type, or Archetypal Tarot Zero Card (The Fool) certainly I know that I often slip into 'crazy wisdom' mode myself so can't judge others harshly for it, especially on a site like this."

this is something i clipped out of one of the above posts, as a sort of disinterested third party's analysis of what goes on here.

anyone who is not an aspiring writer/shaman/strider/quester/ , determined to keep wriggling to the very end of his time linked to this current bit of genetic material, has probably left by now.

why do i mention that? frankly i was hoping you could tell me. I only have a ba from a no-name state school, and my parents both stopped at 8th grade--wait a minute--that's more than you need to know.

what i meant to say was, please have mercy on my soul.