A warning on travels to the Land of the dead

[redtailedhawk]

On my recent mushroom journey to the Land of the dead (I thought I was dead too) I had a strange thought or a warning that I should not be traveling there again, since the spirits now know I am only passing by (this was my second return to this world) and will be returning to the land of the living. The warning implied that since the spirits now know this, they may 'return with me', what ever that means.

I've been looking into Eliade's Shamanism for any advice on this, but for now could find none. Does anyone of you have any advice on this or similar experience willing to share?

[nanouk]

...try the journey without mushrooms, and see what you will find...i am only familiar with entheogen's on a irregular basis, but have discovered one can travel the same road without them, if one knows the "gateway".

the feeling one gets thru the "shroom" is sometimes the foundation of a lifetime of thinking...what if? another race? another time? another be-ing?

the Otherworld is a nice place to visit, but a drag to leave, if one is held there...don't take anyone back with you, they are There...

one is only held by one's own account.

what you see is what you get. smile.gif

thanks for posting your personal experience, redtailedhawk,keep the living clay moulding, and make sculptures of the rest,

the stories are their's, not our's.

Love and Respect,

~n~

[Dna]

What gateway?

Is that when you are halfway between sleeping and waking?

Dna.

[redtailedhawk]

If you don't mind me asking nanouk, can you please share what is your preferred carriage you use to travel into this domain. I have used Holotrophic Breathwork in combination with mushrooms and other medicine and find it successful, but I have never traveled there without the support of some sort of entheogen.

You seem to be rather experienced in the nature of the domain of the dead. Can you share some advice for the fellow travelers, that have only started experiencing this domain? Thank you!

I did some further research on this topic and it seems that the old shamans used to practice cloaking into animals or used masks to hide their identity while traveling to the Land of the dead. They also used masks when ever attending a funeral for the same purpose (this is from Shamanism by Eliade) Unfortunately I have yet to find out why did this seemed to be of such utmost importance and what happens if one does this without cloaking himself.

[nanouk]

hi, redtailedhawk,

ok, sorry it took me long to reply, but i had to go back and figure out what i actually DO, and which is my favoured technique...i am in a new neighbourhood, so i have to find new energy spots, or "bubbles", as i call them...because that's how they feel.

individuals have their own exercise to take them to these realms, but i use a few different, not consciously, but they come to me, unless i "invoke" them...there is meditation, visualisation, lucid dreaming, stalking, and the one i do prefer: shapeshifting.

i did not realise this, but i have roamed the woods and meadows since i was a young child, your typical studious loner, more at home with the stars and reeds than with my own family, and therefore took to get to know these my friends...and walked with them...

i ate herbs, climbed trees, collected trinkets of the wild etc....and always came home with stories of being in den's and burrows of animals, and even brought orphan's of the wild...

i dunno why, but also, people that were dying, or as i have later found out, dead people were also in my "journey's", and my mother got scared of me, and what i had to say after i met them...

anyway...shapeshifting...everyone has their own method, and by no means is mine right or unique...but i know that the portal has to be a place sacred to oneself, a safe, nurturing and ancestoral place...gosh! where i live there are hundreds! i have lived in over 50 locations thru my life, and always found a energized spot nearby...

i normally fast for a day before doing this, and i try to drink at least 2 litres (preferably more)of water prior and during this. I find water makes me "levitate" and inducing trance is easier.

i always bring a gift or two, flowers, sweets, tobacco, fruit, even toys, and a watering of any kind is in place. smile.gif

my particular "gateway", (in this case) is a very old oak tree, and it/she vibrates with serious energy, and the tree has told me what to do...

i feel very apprahensive[sp?]to post the particulars of my technique, not because the fear of being ridiculed, but because i am not trained in/ready to verbalize this, but i will give it a go:

i lie down, trying to clear my mind of anything else than NOW.
then, when i can "leave" my body, i climb up the tree, until i have reached the crown, aiming for the top leaf, making myself jump on to it,
sitting there, i can study the leaf, veins, colouration, shape, etc.
once i am in tune with the leaf, i then leap down the trunk, and when i reach the base, jump into that hole between the roots, and make my way through the tunnel, sometimes it takes seconds to get out, sometimes minutes, depending on which path i take, sometimes it feels like i am travelling as a bird, sometimes a squirrel...

once fresh air hits me again, i make my way out, and boy! there could be mountain ranges, sea shores, dense woodland, and very rarely, urban scapes...it depends if i am there in the day or at night...i follow the road, if i am a deer, or a wolf...whomever i meet, whatever i meet, i greet, and depending on the feeling i get from them, i reveal myself, or stay in guise...and move on... smile.gif

once, i was chased out of the woods by what i call "the lord(doesn't deserve capitol L)of the flies" and another time, a woman and her two sons(my counterpart?) came towards me with great big sticks, telling me i was on private land, but other than that, my conversations and encounters have been very beneficial indeed. i have recieved much good advice, but also sometimes misleading information, which has taken some time to figure out.

i have no demons in my consciousness, i do not fear death, nor the dead, therefore i feel safe.

the only demons i house are earthly, and electric/electronic, and i let them roam where they are welcome - with my neighbours! :D

Alberto Villoldo says in one of his books that we, today, have misunderstood Einstein's E=Mc2, and concentrate too much on the Matter, when it is actually Energy that is the driving force...

blimey! i have been ribbetting on, but feel free to pm me, like i said, this is difficult to verbalize, but easy to do...

all my love and respect,

~n~

[ February 08, 2006, 03:31 AM: Message edited by: nanouk ]

[Eagle Wing]

"s'rooms can be the foundation for a lifetime of thought" indeed. Thank you Nanouk.
Redt, thanks for your insight. I completely agree with your reservations about summoning or drawing in the dead. This is totally possible, i believe, if you have that kind of consciousness.

maybe you would make a good death counselor?

just been thinking about that sort of thing lately -- as in, what is it about our experiences with the entheogens that we are supposed to bring back --
what is useful, besides our own "personal" insights?

As for me, I don't really have to eat them that much anymore. Maybe once a year lately, but even the last couple years have only reiterated the same things.

All it takes is a moment... a remembering of that thought pattern, that feeling, that taps our body and mind back into the continuum. It is always there. Just as humans have the potential to be psychic together, even without speaking words... it is the same. We don't have to eat, once we know, all we have to do is remember and look, remember and close our eyes.

i also think we are on the right path with the breathwork... this brings the physical body fully into "contact" and elicits a stronger vibration in the astral body.

[ February 09, 2006, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Eagle Wing ]

[nanouk]

nice to hear from you again, Eagle Wing...

redtailedhawk, i have not read Eliade's book myself, but am aware of what the Spirit flight(OOB experience) and the symbolic death is in shamanic practices.
it is said that if one wants to explore these realms, it is best to do it while one has a body, and there are some theories that the Christ underwent exactly that during his three days in the cave, and then rose again...

personally, i have only felt that i was dying once(apart from being revived from drowning when i was 4, but have no memory of it), it was a couple of years ago, i was burning up with fever, i couldn't eat or drink, and went to my tree to pray, and rest. i was delirious and humbled to life, weak in body, but with a vivid will, it felt as if my body was slowly dissolving into the infinite. as i laid there, semi-conscious, i suddenly became aware something soft and warm on my face, i opened my eyes, and was surrounded by a small herd of calves, one of them licking my face. it felt so soothing and i cried with love and gratitude. the answer to my prayers was the realisation that i must seek medical help, so i did, and was admitted to hospital with quincey. it was after that, i learned how to journey beyond with intent...

i wonder have you read the Tibetan Book of The Dead?
i hadn't myself read it since early adulthood, when i started to study mystical texts, but found an e-book the other day...

"Be not fond of that dull bluish-yellow light from the human [world]. That is the path of thine accumulated propensities of violent egotism come to receive thee. If thou art attracted by it, thou wilt be born in the human world and have to suffer birth, age, sickness, and death; and thou wilt have no chance of getting out of the quagmire of worldly existence. That is an interruption to obstruct thy path of liberation. Therefore, look not upon it, and abandon egotism, abandon propensities; be not attracted towards it; be not weak. Act so as to trust in that bright dazzling light. "

http://www.summum.us/mummification/tbotd/

i forgot how important this once was to me to understand the rejoicing in life, and to learn about the spirit world, and shall get myself a copy. smile.gif

Love and Respect,

~n~

[ February 10, 2006, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: nanouk ]

[hoy]

I am curious what you would say the difference is in feeling and in visual occurrences between going to the land of the dead with entheogens of some sort, and going without. I have a strong belief, founded in research and experimentation, that you are talking about not only 2 drastically different experiences, but also 2 different places. Have you tried using something more powerful like ayahuasca? If not, you should, so you know the true power of this naturally occurring chemical, and the true power of your spirit. I am not discounting what you say, I am merely trying to understand better.
Thank you

[sacha]

On my recent mushroom journey to the Land of the dead (I thought I was dead too) I had a strange thought or a warning that I should not be traveling there again, since the spirits now know I am only passing by (this was my second return to this world) and will be returning to the land of the living. The warning implied that since the spirits now know this, they may 'return with me', what ever that means.

I've been looking into Eliade's Shamanism for any advice on this, but for now could find none. Does anyone of you have any advice on this or similar experience willing to share?By spirits, I take it you mean dead people spirits? There are a lot of maladjusted dead people out there, who can latch on to live people like parasites if you let them.

Here's a thread that might interest you:

http://www.forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3292