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gone
05-26-2004, 11:21 AM
A rather bent article about Waldorf schools, pasted in full to avoid the umpteen screens of advertising to reach it on Salon.

What's Waldorf?

The alternative school's holistic, arts-based philosophy seemed like a perfect fit for my kids. Then I started learning about the eccentric mystical beliefs of its founder.

Editor's note: Names marked with an asterisk (*) have been changed.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Meagan Francis

May 26, 2004 | When Ted and Joan Shores* began researching schools near their Seattle home for their 4-year-old daughter, Clair, they settled fairly easily on the local Waldorf school. "We wanted a school that encouraged learning through play, instead of pushing formal academics," says Joan, who says that she was drawn to the school because of Waldorf's stance on electronic media (a no-no -- most Waldorf schools discourage the use of television and computers by young children) and nature play (encouraged -- Waldorf schools provide children with wooden blocks, simple cloth dolls, twigs, stones and other nature items rather than plastic toys). They were also excited to join the ready-made community of school families who pitched in with fundraising efforts, coordinated school events, and celebrated festivals together -- conventional holidays, like Christmas and Easter, plus celebrations centering on less-mainstream events, like the harvest, solstice, and May Day.

But the seemingly idyllic mix of a holistic education for their daughter and a supportive community for their family quickly soured: Clair began to be bullied by an older, bigger boy at school, and none of the staff seemed to notice. Though Clair was coming home in tears and no longer wanted to attend school, teachers dismissed Joan's concerns, she says -- even when she'd witnessed the bullying herself. "Our lead teacher kept asking what Clair's bedtime was, while insisting she never saw bullying at school," Joan says. "She would never address the behavior of the other child." (When called for comment, a representative from Clair's school said that no one had time to answer questions.) Instead, the teacher suggested to a frustrated Ted that he "read his Steiner."

Clair's teacher was referring to Rudolf Steiner (1861-1925), an Austrian-born philosopher, self-proclaimed clairvoyant and occult scientist who, in his heyday in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, produced dozens of books and essays, lectured widely, and founded Anthroposophy, a philosophy resembling a mystical twist on Christianity that incorporates belief in, among many other things, reincarnation, karma and gnomes. He also pioneered Waldorf education -- a holistic, media-minimal and arts-based alternative to traditional schooling that's said to foster creativity, independent thinking and mind-body-spirit wholeness in its students.

But a growing group of parents, teachers and students who've left the Waldorf system are troubled by the way the schools interpret Steiner's philosophies. Waldorf "survivors," as they very seriously call themselves, accuse Waldorf schools of encouraging a cultlike loyalty to Steiner's philosophy, which was founded on racist and anti-Semitic beliefs and which incorporates a host of unconventional educational methods -- like delaying reading and writing until children are 7. But the critical parents object not so much to the philosophies, they say, as to the administrators and teachers' lack of frankness about just what is in the curriculum, and why -- whether Anthroposophy serves merely as an inspiration or as a day-to-day practical guide for what happens in the classroom. (Waldorf teachers are required to study Anthroposophy for a year of their two-year training program, but there is some contention regarding its implementation.)

"Anthroposophy is never woven into the curriculum at all," says Scott Albert, the admissions coordinator at the Princeton Waldorf School in Princeton, N.J. "It is simply giving the teacher a backdrop from which to work ... Most families have recognition of a spiritual energy, but it doesn't play itself out [in the classroom]." Albert says that the Princeton Waldorf School attracts families of all religious backgrounds.

When my children first began entertaining themselves long enough for me to plot out their educational future via the Internet, I sought out alternatives to the local public school -- as I assumed good, progressive parents are expected to do. I had a hard time with the idea of compulsory schooling at all: The institutionalization of my children's education went against something deep in my gut -- some rebellious tendency, perhaps, or just the wish that I'd been allowed to do more dreaming as a young child. I wanted more for my children: more art, more imagination, more fantasy, more drama and music. I also wanted less: less rote learning, less commercialism and peer pressure, fewer worksheets, less time spent sitting listlessly at a desk watching slide shows.

The more I read online about Waldorf schooling, clicking from virtual tour to virtual tour of beautiful classrooms and beautiful toys, all surrounded by beautiful pink-cheeked children, the more enthusiastic I got. What institutional-education-fearing rebel wouldn't be attracted to a school system that incorporates reverence for nature into its curriculum and bedecks its classrooms with smooth wooden toys and brightly colored bits of wool and silk? To me, it was the perfect alternative to Coke-sponsored public schools. I imagined my children in such an environment, creating colorful works of art, singing, dancing with silk fairy wings on their backs, and stacking untreated wooden blocks while listening to a teacher read aloud from a book of classic fairy tales, bright smiles on their fresh, freckly faces. In my mind's eye, the Waldorf method transformed them somehow. They'd be imaginative, inquisitive -- not like the snarky, sophisticated sitcom kids I feared they were otherwise doomed to become. The wooden and natural-fiber toys were said to inspire creativity; the careful attention to festivals and seasons would provide the children with a sense of rhythm.

After I'd done my fill of research on Waldorf, I contemplated Sudbury schools, a program that allows children the freedom to design their own educational pursuits and that is run democratically by students, staff and parents. I considered Montessori schools, based on a philosophy that provides structure but still encourages independent thinking as well. But from the outside, Waldorf did the best job of fulfilling my educational fantasies.

Apparently, that fantasy hooks a lot of people. Judging from the accounts of the more than 20 people I spoke to about their experiences with Waldorf education and the hundreds of accounts I read online, most parents who choose Waldorf are drawn to it for the same reasons: the arts-based education, the avoidance of commercial and media influences, and the idea that the school would nurture their child's body, mind and spirit.

Waldorf education has been around for 75 years, and its popularity shows no signs of abating; there are over 800 schools in 40 countries and at least 157 Waldorf schools in North America, with a number of public schools incorporating Waldorf-inspired aspects into their curriculum. And for the most part, parents I've spoken to whose children are currently enrolled in Waldorf schools tend to be deeply satisfied with their children's education; they agree with the Waldorf philosophy and enjoy the ready-made community. "Our school is a very harmonious and peaceful place," says Stacy Aaron, whose son Nicky is a kindergartener at the Portland Waldorf School in Portland, Ore. "The curriculum and teaching style work for my kid, and he is treated with respect and kindness by his teachers and the other staff."

Waldorf is as much a lifestyle as it is an education, with the school's philosophies lapping into home life: Parents are often asked to enforce rules about television watching and to keep a "media free" environment for children in lower grades (no TV or computers, period). Parents also receive guidelines for packing school lunches (an Olympia, Wash.-area Waldorf school's handbook states that lunches must be packed in a basket, not a lunch box, with two cloth napkins and a ceramic cup). Mary Hammond*, a Santa Rosa, Calif., mother of two, says the Waldorf school application she filled out asked questions about how long she'd breastfed her children and how much television she and her husband watched. In many ways, says Hammond, who eventually decided that Waldorf's mandates were too strict for her children, "I felt like I was on trial to see if we'd 'fit in' with the community before we even started there!"

Former Waldorf parents criticize their schools for not fully explaining these practices -- or how deeply they connect to Steiner's spiritual worldview. "Anthroposophy is the foundation of everything that happens in a Waldorf school, but it's veiled," says Dan Dugan, secretary of the Waldorf watchdog group People for Legal and Nonsectarian Schools (PLANS). "It isn't taught directly to the children, but to the knowing eye it is everywhere."

John Holland -- a creative marketing consultant and former Waldorf parent in Berkeley, Calif., who has created OpenWaldorf.com, a resource site for parents, educators and others interested in Waldorf, Steiner and Anthroposophy -- agrees. "The key to understanding Waldorf is Anthroposophy," says Holland, who tried to research Waldorf education on the Internet during his children's tenure there, but found a dearth of information. "I felt that I was missing a piece of the puzzle -- something important that I did not understand," he says.

Holland began to research Steiner's many lectures, books and essays to find out for himself what Anthroposophy was all about and what role it plays in Waldorf education. What he found by studying the primary texts is that Waldorf's theory about, say, delaying reading until age 7 or academics until age 14 is based wholly on Steiner's spiritual principles, not science. "I liken it to the abstinence movement," Holland says. "People would come into schools and tell kids all the practical reasons why they shouldn't have sex, but later we find out it was actually part of a Christian movement. Underneath the practical issue there was a moral issue; chastity was the core value."

Holland argues that the religious basis of a movement is not the problem, but the lack of disclosure about its religious roots is. And since Waldorf's whole philosophy is based on a set of religious values, Holland says, there is no real way to separate Anthroposophy from the Waldorf curriculum. "It's a closed system," he says. "The timing of when certain things are taught, the subject matter itself, all is dictated by Anthroposophy ... I tell people that Anthroposophy is the DNA of Waldorf education."

If, as Holland says, Anthroposophy is the DNA of Waldorf education, then how do schools contend with the philosophy's basis in racial and religious discrimination? Steiner's remarks on religion and race have caused an outcry among Waldorf critics, who say that Waldorf schooling cannot escape Steiner's bigoted roots. "Jewry as such has long since outlived its time; it has no more justification within the modern life of peoples, and the fact that it continues to exist is a mistake of world history whose consequences are unavoidable," said Steiner in an 1888 article in the German Weekly. Steiner's theory of reincarnation states that souls travel an upward path of consciousness, beginning with the "sub-races" (Africans) and ending with Aryans -- the most "enlightened" race. Said Steiner, "If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out, the human race will become increasingly dense ... Blond hair actually bestows intelligence."

Holland thinks these issues could be resolved if Waldorf educators and administrators would simply be honest about the inherent racism and anti-Semitism of some of Steiner's philosophies. A simple acknowledgment of Steiner's less-than-politically-correct viewpoints, along with a unified statement denouncing those viewpoints, is all Holland believes it would take for Waldorf schools, teachers and supporters to rise above accusations of racism and anti-Semitism.

He also points out that the ultimate goal of Anthroposophy is to lead children through the stages of reincarnation, which blurs the line between education and religion to an even greater extent. Nancy Frost*, a former Waldorf instructor, concurs: "I heard in a faculty meeting that there were many important souls waiting to reincarnate in this century and that they would only be able to do so if there were enough Waldorf schools," she says. "By the end of the year I taught there I was completely convinced that Waldorf constituted a cultlike religious movement which concealed its true nature from prospective parents."

Albert, the Princeton Waldorf School admissions coordinator, dismisses accusations that Waldorf is cultlike. "It doesn't make much sense to me at all," he says. "When you have a whole bunch of different teachers, their different interpretations of the schooling can vary. So within any institution there are varieties of opinion about what the education means and how to implement it."

"[Waldorf education] is 80 years old," Albert adds. "The fact that it has lasted so long speaks to the fact that it works."

Happy Waldorf parents are also skeptical of the criticisms. "A lot of people think that the curriculum is designed around some kind of brainwashing or stealth manipulation to indoctrinate the kids," says Stacy Aaron, of Portland. "That's just not true. I haven't seen that at all. I've seen many well-rounded kids enjoying their school environment and learning all kinds of things that kids don't get to experience at other schools."

"Any good school will be very upfront about the anthroposophical basis of Waldorf education," says Trish, a parent in Minneapolis who feels that her school's staff was honest about the spiritual aspects of Waldorf education. "There must be bad schools out there, just like there are in every different philosophy or style, but my experience has been really wonderful and enriching."

"I don't think that Waldorf schools work for everybody," says Albert, "and some of that is based on the consistency of values between home and school."

As for me, the pink-cheeked, wholesome-child fantasy was almost enough to sway me, and I considered trying to get over my issues with Anthroposophy, as I presume many parents do. But, as Albert says, Waldorf probably won't work for families who don't uphold its values at home -- and the idea of trying to uphold a value system I don't believe in unnerved me. There's a certain relief in the low expectations of me as a public-school parent: I'm not expected to believe in much of anything besides overpriced fundraiser merchandise. My family could come home and sit in front of the television for five straight hours, cramming Chee-tos into our sallow faces and breathing in the offgassing of plastic toys without my children's school's knowledge. (We don't. But we could.)

When my children began to attend the local public school, I was pleasantly surprised to find that they didn't start obsessively coloring within lines or raising their hands to speak at the dinner table. They may not be playing with wooden toys every day, but they're learning, they're happy, and they're still relatively innocent -- and that's good enough.

forteanajones
05-26-2004, 01:45 PM
My daughter is in her third year at a Californian Waldorf school. Occasionally the solicitations for volunteering, financial support and extra parental participation are a bit...persistant...but it's all voluntary w/o excessive pressure. Next to that, my only issues are feeling a bit intimidated by the strength of identity the school has, and the steep learning curve for one who is only now beginning to break the consumer brainwashing in an organized fashion. These feelings have more to do with my own "newbie" state of mind, I think, than the attitudes of the school. I would like to see more parental-education and as it is, one is forced to rely on reading and networking just like anywhere else.

True, the formal application did call for seemingly-invasive information about media consumption and pregnancy/child-rearing facts. We also ran into learning issues which we ourselves were already aware of. In the latter case, all kinds of details were requested ranging from pregnancy difficulties (several), to breastfeeding (no issues), to crawling (no one I know in my own line has crawled as an infant), and whether or not her mother may have been depressed at the time (yes).

I am ok with discussing personal details like these, because I understand these considerations do link up to how Devin relates to her world. But I understand also that Waldorf couldn't care less how much media I consume, they want to know how often the TV happens to be on in my kid's environment. Just like anything else I believe one really has to look at the particular school in question. I have no doubt that there are probably plenty of Waldorf schools out there where misunderstandings about these concepts are regularly thrust on unwitting parents who don't know any better.

The one area I am less sure of is Anthroposophy. I don't feel I'm well read on the subject and I'm not sure I agree with everything I have read so far about it. However contrary to the implications of the Salon article, I don't believe all of its tenants are necessarily core to every Waldorf education. (I would defer to a more experienced Waldorf/Steiner expert to judge this).

It would be wonderful to see someone qualified respond to the author about her view of these so-called "eccentric mystical beliefs". (Personally, my wife has debated with Salon authors in the past with mixed results).

gone
05-26-2004, 04:50 PM
Sensible comments.

I can only hope my son will be subject to a teaching method based on eccentric mystical beliefs (other than my own).

As a possible indicator of authorial attitude, the following correction on the article was shown to be made:

“In the story "What's Waldorf?" published May 26, 2004, a source was quoted as saying that Rudolf Steiner, the founder of Waldorf schools, "lived, wrote, spoke and taught in Nazi Germany." Steiner died in 1925, eight years before the Nazis came to power in Germany in 1933. The story has been corrected. Salon regrets the error. [Correction made 05/26/04]”
[http://www.salon.com/letters/corrections/2004/index.html#steiner]

Anyone with editorial contacts as Salon? They’ve always blanked me.

There seems to be some kind of anti-spiritual brief going on at Salon. Recently there was a particularly off review of Randall Sullivan’s new book, The Miracle Detective:

http://www.salon.com/books/review/2004/05/06/miracles/index.html

As it happens I’ve read a review copy of this book and have a review being published of it next month. Now it’s not the best book in the world, but it’s a solid read; Salon seemed more interested in mocking Sullivan for having a sincere reaction to his miracle investigations. Indeed, editorially, Salon liked to put lots of words in adverted commas to underline their ridiculous nature, “holy”, “miracle”, “vision” and so forth.

Rob P
05-26-2004, 07:35 PM
As Al Franken says- OY OY OY

F*** Salon- I mean- not really, I still check it out
once in awhile- but only 2 weeks ago, I think,
the SEX section completely disappeared!!!

It was utterly entertaining, and also had some
good, truthful columns as well, but it vanished-
Now it's just been archived- and even they
have been White-Housed.

Corporate interests I'm sure- this stuff is getting
old- who are the 'fraidy cats running all these
big corporations and how did their asses
all get so tight so quickly!!!!????!!!

And yeah boy oh boy parents should be concerned about
Waldorf Schools, especially because there
are so many mainstream alternatives...

seeya
Rob

[ May 26, 2004, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Rob P ]

Buzz
05-28-2004, 05:05 AM
Glad someone else is listening to the O'Franken Factor.

Over the past year or so I've been looking up a lot of my psychedelic music era musicians (Bay Area) on the net. One was Jesse Colin Young of the Youngbloods (Sunshine, etc...). I saw that his house in Northern California burned down and he moved to Hawaii and started a Coffee business and yes, still records and makes music. I e-mailed him and got a response back from his web overseer? Jesse has built and started a Waldorf school. Wanting to move to Hawaii, I researched Waldorf training centers (I teach sometimes). But I never followed up on it. This is about the time I read Daniel's book, which holds some of first memories of Steiner, at least in any depth. Anywho, just a little sycronicity there. This is going nowhere.

Flo
05-31-2004, 01:44 AM
Waldorf survivors! ha

I attended a waldorf school for the majority of my schooling and found it problematic at times but at others it was a teenage dream. The teachers were of such an airy fairy disposition that we could do what we liked and get away with it. I still know nothing about anthroposophy after all my time there but I've read a litlle about steiner's ideas on child development and found it all pretty right on.

The whole experience really depends on the school. Mine was tiny and so skint it is a recognised charity. I did go on an exchange to Germany and the whole set up over there is excellent, as I'm sure it is in most of the bigger schools. The opportunities for travel are like none I've seen in state schools. We went to Greece and Sweden,as well as Germany.

Every school has its problems, I definitely prefered my waldorf school to the hospital-like state schools which are more of a business than a place of learning. All that matters in these dingy holes is that the kids do well in their exams so the school looks good on the league tables, which results in kids being spoon fed answers and never learning anything interesting for themselves - you'd be hard pushed to find anything of interest on a state school's curriculum. They just teach kids to be bored obedient zombies. This is the opinion I have come to after going to about 9 different schools as a kid. But school is never the best days of your life. To be quite frank when you're a kid school is shit.

daniel
06-01-2004, 03:20 AM
My daughter (approaching three) was in a Waldorf pre-school one morning a week. We were looking into it for nursery school, may still go back there later. Like most things in life, it seems to have positive and negative aspects. The beautiful part I found was the incredible soft, gauzy, and imaginative atmosphere, and the fact that there was a philosophy behind all of the things that they did (including stuff they taught to parents during this class). The art on the walls from the older grades was almost unbelievably beautiful. However, some of the fears in the article seemed to impinge on my perceptions as well. A slightly too precious feeling, a sense that the imaginative aspects of childhood would be prioritized over logical thought and reading... these things do concern me.

I suspect that the Waldorf Schools, like Anthroposophy in general, have gotten a little stuck in the letter of Steiner's work, rather than following his exploratory and evolutionary spirit. Steiner was not a static thinker who would have wanted to keep everything in a 1900s mode. He did have a deep appreciation for craft traditions, and for teaching children to understand the basics and roots of reality, as well as indicating or hinting at the elemental realms and angelic realms, which in my opinion do exist, and should be acknowledged.

I would love to see a fusion of Waldorf with the progressive education I had as a child of the 1970s at the Bank Street School for Children, which was a beautiful place. We may still end up there with Lily - the art and atmosphere stay with me.

jezebelle
06-01-2004, 03:50 PM
My son being the product of 2 left-handed parents, (11 at the time) expressed interest for going to the new school system that focused on the humanities. Nixed, he went to a school with strong math and science along with all the other stuff. Turns out he has a real bent for math and science, in spite of his recent art scholastic award and perchance for world civ. (14 now)
He doesn't care about any of it, but would rather fip his bike and do tricks on one wheel. Yet math and science have played their worth for he is fixing that damm bike everytime I turn around.

gone
06-01-2004, 04:24 PM
Freestyle BMX is certainly artistic, it reminds me a little of Capoeira dancing. I’m hoping to nudge my son towards being a surfer; we’re one beach along from the Big Wave capital of Otago (also shark central, which keeps me firmly within my depth).

egret
06-01-2004, 08:12 PM
I think the philosophy, or not, is really really secondary. I’ve heard good stuff about waldorf, but a relative of mine was positively abused there, emotionally. it was shameful. but its not because it was waldorf : that’s the main point. it was the teacher (or a couple). it coulda happened anywhere. and that’s the most important thing : waldorf is JUST like the other schools in the most important area : no philosophy can really make a poor teacher – a poor human being – good. And a good teacher seems to be able to teach no matter where they are or what philosophy they adhere to.

urbanmythic
08-02-2004, 04:01 PM
Well how about another Waldorf anecdote...? My 11 year old daughter has been a student at a well established Waldorf school in So. California for six years now. The experience has been profound. It has not always been touchy feely pink and cute. We are a "family of color" (read NOT white) and have had our share of issues. I must say that we have always been treated with sincere respect and our queries have always been addressed fairly. It is a lifestyle that a family enters into that is about growth and change. One must truly be ready to face ones own weaknesses and fears in order to move forward and this is from the parents point of view! My daughter loves learning and most days loves going to school. She is in an environment that fosters the development of human imagination, I can ask for no more than that.

Katie
08-04-2004, 04:40 AM
Hi

I am Katie and I am new here. I have been reading here occasionally, especially the esoteric section. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth on this one

Having been a teacher in the past, I agree with what some of the posters above have stated about the fact that in every kind of school there are good teachers that will manage to teach well no matter what. And I also agree that the opposite is true, that no philosophy can transform a bad teacher into a good one. However, when I was teaching, I spent a couple of years working as a substitute in London, hopping from school to school. I enjoyed the freedom and the money, as subs get better paid than regular teachers...This way, I got to work in hundreds of schools - religious schools, state schools of the VIP neighborhoods such as Hampstead, Chelsea and Holland Park, as well as the down in the dumps schools in the poor zones - my favorite (I ended up staying and teaching in what I used to call the "war zone" for eight years).

As I moved around, I always noticed that the ethos of the school, the attitude/intent of management plus the nature of the school's population blended to create a living entity with its own very particular and distinguished qualities. And, as a teacher (I was always the same old me) these different "school cultures" brought out different aspects of who I was - there was more room for me to express (or repress) one side or another of myself both as an educator and as a human being. Some of these schools were in the same neighborhood. The student population was the same, but the "school culture" was different. I guess this would also apply to the various Steiner schools - each one will be the same and slightly different, each one an entity in its own right, depending on who runs the school, the management team and the specific population served.

I always felt that, when entering a new school, I was entering a small world with its own rules, costumes and feel. Some of these worlds suited me and some didn't. And I know it is the same for the kids. Some kids thrive in certain environments, some don't. And the environment that looks best on paper, is not always the best one for the kid. We are such unique beings...

When I was 11 years old, my mother put me in a school that was supposed to be the hottest thing in town. I hated it. I cried every day as I wanted to go to the rough state school around the block from our house. I did not want to be in the school with all the prissy kids. My sister went to the same school and she loved it. She could not understand my reactions. The next school I went to was a science and arts very intellectual and very liberal school with a revolutionary bent. Here there were kids that were still very polished, the education was deep and fabulous, but the attitude was dynamic, alive and encouraged radical critical thinking. I loved it. I came alive in this school. It was here that I learned about philosophy- we studied it three hours per week for three years - I still consider that studying philosophy in my formative years was one of the luckiest things that could have happened to me.

I think, as in all things, we need to do our research and then honor the child. Finding a good school that does not brainwash kids is important and then we need to see if it suits the particular child we are considering the school for. We are not all the same.

And with regards to the magazine above and its prejudice - so much of our society's mainstream is prejudiced towards the spiritual and alternative aspects that are emerging from the grass roots. The old structures are soon going to blow, the pressure for change is too big. But in the meantime, the "old rule' is tightening its grip into more dismissive, tight, rigid stances. We are seeing it with regards to education but also medicine, psychiatry, politics, …the works. Hopefully in a few years this very annoying phase will be over and the energy of change will be able to flow freely actualizing into new forms…

Well that will be all before I digress further…

daniel
08-04-2004, 05:08 AM
perhaps the Steiner schools are perfect as is, or perhaps their ethos needs to be blended with the progressive education that developed in the 60s and 70s... I was a product of the Back Street School in NYC. It had great and not-so-great effects. We "learned how to learn" more than learning anything in particular - so I don't have another language and have lost any math skills, however I can look at knowledge systems creatively.

Katie, have you checked out William Irwin Thompson? He has a new book on reformatting school curriculums according to a new emergent planetary culture. He is brilliant and one of my heroes - check out also "Coming into Being" or "At the Edge of History."

And please feel free to digress...

daniel
08-04-2004, 05:09 AM
interesting typos i make these days... I meant Bank Street School for Children, up on 112th St. Still a great place.

daniel
08-04-2004, 05:10 AM
what do people feel about children learning through computers? I think I agree with Waldorf that it should be postponed... why break the "spell of the sensuous" before you have to?

Katie
08-04-2004, 05:38 AM
Interesting typos indeed ;) Back street was bringing up all sorts of images :)

Thanks Daniel for the warm welcome and for the reading suggestion. I have not heard of either of the two authors and will definitely check them out.

And I know what you mean about the education you received, leaving out the math and additional language. It seems there was a lot of experimenting going on at some point that went all the way into right brain, opposing to the excessive rigidity that came before. The pendulum was swinging , so to speak. Then we realized that we were throwing out the baby with the bathwater. As usual balance is key.

I chose to go to a science school and then did physics in Uni, so my hard sciences are well polished. But I taught in many schools in London where they had done away with grading all together and taught mixed ability mathematics- thirty kids all in one class all at different levels all studying on tiny little booklets on completely different topics with one poor teacher trying to help all of them at the same time. The philosophy was that each child had their own learning curve and that no child was to be differentiated upon because of their ability. The system they were using was called SMP, that meant something like progressive mathematics bla di bla...It was brin during the seveties and very popular in London during the late eighties /early nineties. The result was: it was impossible to teach math with this system and the kids might have had high self-esteem, but knew no mathematics at all...And the kids knew it- they were not to happy. The sad thing was that mathematics, that can be such a beautiful subject when taught well, with such symmetry and elegance, was never properly introduced to the kids. I felt it was a loss.

Fortunately , they are starting to phase SMP out now. Not that I have much faith in the systems that are replacing it. It seems british government curricula are still designed to create the maximum amount of time wasting and confusion.

Gift Horse
08-04-2004, 05:40 AM
Hmmm, yes, computers.........good question.

My daughter was born with an unspecified syndrome. She developed language skills very late. She din't start speaking til she was 3 and when she started school, she wouldn't speak.
She was easily over-whelmed be sensory input. So for her, learning computer skills opened up a whole world for her. She can play games now, independent of others, which seems to give her badly needed self-esteem.
I am hoping she will learn key-board skills so that she can comunicate. At 11 years old, she reads and writes at a 1st grade level.
I just started with the keyboard a few years ago, and I am still very slow. I wish I had learned in school!

sidecross
08-04-2004, 06:51 AM
Every child develops differently. Education not based on the individual child is a crapshoot. What is resilient is the child's ability to rectify poor education.

minnie
08-04-2004, 08:05 AM
I work as a homeopath, have studied tai chi for many years and have chosen steiner education for my children. All the above are only SYSTEMS and as such have their virtues and faults. It is up to the individual user to take what they wish from the system and reject that which they don't feel comfortable with. Homeopathy and tai chi are both riddled with dogma and theories masquerading as truths. This does not negate their inherent strengths as healing tools. For me the difference between steiner and state education is the difference between going to the homeopath or the allopathic doctor. The former acknowledges the whole being and the latter views the person in a somewhat mechanistic fashion. Personally, I abhor organized religion of any sort but am extremely comforted that my children spend their schooldays among people who acknowledge them as spiritual beings rather than exam fodder. relax...be happy

IamLight
08-04-2004, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by forteanajones:
My daughter is in her third year at a Californian Waldorf school. Occasionally the solicitations for volunteering, financial support and extra parental participation are a bit...persistant...but it's all voluntary w/o excessive pressure. Next to that, my only issues are feeling a bit intimidated by the strength of identity the school has, and the steep learning curve for one who is only now beginning to break the consumer brainwashing in an organized fashion. These feelings have more to do with my own "newbie" state of mind, I think, than the attitudes of the school. I would like to see more parental-education and as it is, one is forced to rely on reading and networking just like anywhere else.What an awesome site this is. And a great thread.
I am a waldorf father with two kids in the system here also in California. One child entering 2nd grade, another entering kindie.
I totally relate to these comments. Our waldorf school is a charter school so although it's public, we are constantly battling for $$$$$. At times, at the expense of a program or two. But other then that I love the community the school generates as well as the school itself. Sure there are some methodologies that we may not fully agree with. Like we home taught my one daughter to read because they weren’t really delving into that yet. I think by 7.5 she should be reading, which she is now thanks mainly to my wife.

I look forward to reading more comments here and overall on this forum.

[ August 04, 2004, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: IamLight ]

IamLight
08-04-2004, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by daniel:
what do people feel about children learning through computers? I think I agree with Waldorf that it should be postponed... why break the "spell of the sensuous" before you have to?I agree that there is no rush and should be waited. I had the opportunity of working at an elementary school (regular public k-6) as an "technologist" basically wiring the school and supporting their technology program and getting them grants. I cringed at seeing kindergarteners and 1st and 2nds graders on the computers. I think they need their imagination more then the visual stimulation. I now know how true this is watching my own children play.

Another note, when we travel and stay in hotels, my wife and I are usually keen to watch a little telly. My daughter hates it and tells us off. You got to respect that!

[ August 04, 2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: IamLight ]

jezebelle
08-04-2004, 10:22 AM
what do people feel about children learning through computers? I think I agree with Waldorf that it should be postponed... why break the "spell of the sensuous" before you have to?

It's important for the child (to me) to learn to be in the body and enjoy it. Paint, jump, fiddle, play-in-the-physical-senses, and EVEN BETTER connect with the outdoors or nature somehow.

Having said that: before you know it they all talk their "pokeman" and are teaching each other shortcuts on the videos, computers, tv's, internet, conquering, even when they don't speak the same native language.

With my son technologoy happened early but because my kid had alot of time outside from moment he could walk; he now will leave the computer-games aside and go do something physical, or draw and use up of all my stuff.

Then technology becomes what it should. Just another tool for the expression of creativity. Its just a tool (at least now).

It has a balanced place.

forteanajones
08-04-2004, 05:21 PM
egret: I’ve heard good stuff about waldorf, but a relative of mine was positively abused there, emotionally.

egret, this is a very sad thing to hear, especially when it applies to a school which in my view shoulders a huge burden in the education world.

daniel: perhaps the Steiner schools are perfect as is, or perhaps their ethos needs to be blended with the progressive education that developed in the 60s and 70s...

Totally, the Steiner schools are probably far from perfect, but by and large they are SAFE and NON-TOXIC and they are built on a great foundation which will support many more wonderful things to come.

daniel: what do people feel about children learning through computers?

No question here for me, computers are growing and changing so rapidly, there is really nothing to miss at this stage (turning eight on Monday). For one thing, input devices will become antiquated as direct thinking and speaking mechanisms take over so typing/mousing may soon be de-emphasized, and I"m certain every other aspect of the modern computer will be quite different in a decade if not sooner. For me, computer appliances have no relevance in my daughter's world and I personally keep her away from them. And I do computer work for an internet company!

I don't even have to try hard at shielding, as Devin has very little interest. Although e-media of all kinds is also frowned upon, while we do permit her to watch certain things what makes me most proud are the moments when she turns OFF the tube prematurely to wander and play with real things. And (as with IamLight) she regularly chastizes me for my own persistent electronic fixations.

sidecross: Every child develops differently. Education not based on the individual child is a crapshoot. What is resilient is the child's ability to rectify poor education.

We are experiencing this here first-hand in a Waldorf despite all my good feelings. While we are in love with her teacher, D has struggled with significant audio-processing issues that have yet to be aggressively addressed in her classroom. Like most schools, when this comes up the burden falls on the parents to seek out root cause, whereas I feel a teacher who is with her each day in the realm of education is in a better position to investigate and respond. The communication channels are very much open though, and knowing that teacher and child will be together for the next seven years means lots of time for parents and teacher to adapt to one another...

minnie
08-08-2004, 05:22 AM
the reality is...the South west London Waldorf school was burnt down a few weeks ago in an arson attack. All the classrooms and their contents including the children's precious work was destroyed. Amazingly, the teachers decided to continue with the remaining 2 weeks of term alfresco, and have continued to work fulltime through the holiday in order to organise some premises and resources for sept. This is without the help of the local authorities who own the land on which the school was situated. As a parent, I feel very privileged to be among such an inspirational company at such a difficult time. Some of our teachers have to work at second jobs in the evenings to be able to afford to teach at the school. Our dear prime minister offered "diversity in education" as one of his party's manifesto pledges at the last election. We're still waiting, Tony.If you would like to read more about the fire and our endeavours to manifest a phoenix, go to www.waldorf-swlondon.org/fire (http://www.waldorf-swlondon.org/fire)

fungus44
01-04-2005, 10:56 AM
Interesting to hear the plugs and criticisms of Waldorf schools.

It was Katie who made reference to reading suggestions -- I can't see them on the thread, but I can be a bit goofy. Perhaps they were elesewhere? I've been attracted and distracted by Steiner for years. Is there a good book to read?

My impressions of Steiner/anthroposophy are positive but I don't know what to do with them.