Bon Shamanism and Entheogens

[yahazim]

This is a question primarily for Daniel, but the discussion is open to anyone.

Daniel, in BOTH you mention you were searching for the entheogen used by the Bon Shaman in Tibet. I personally work with two of the Bon Lamas here in the US (the only two in the West I might add) Lama Tenzin Wangal and Lama Khemsar.

In my own studies and practices I have not dropped the use of entheogens from my own spiritual growth, but have found their occasional use to be helpful, such as ayahausca. Although I might be deluded, I cannot help but feel what I feel.

Daniel -- what were your findings with the Bon? The Bon claim to be the oldest, most ancient religion on the planet and can trace a lineage back 16,000 years to Tonpa Shenrab.

What was the entheogen used? Where did you get your information?

THANK YOU. And I love the book. You have embarked on a neverending exploration into the Mystery. You might want to investigate the use of Egyptian High Magick and LSD. Fascinating combination. :)

[ February 05, 2003, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: yahazim ]

[daniel]

yahazim,

It wasn't I but McKennawho went on a search for the vision plants of the Bon.

However I was just sent a new, absolutely amazing book Shamanism and Tantra in the Himalayas by Christian Ratsch, an amazing botanist and shamanic scholar, and his team. This book definitely appears to be a classic with fantastic photo documentation and illustration. I will let you know more when I read it.

Since you know far more about Bon than I do, perhaps you want to fill us in with some info. I don't quite understand the relationship between Tibetan Buddhism and Bon. What is the major difference in their belief systems or practices? What do you know about Chod practice?

I really like the writings of Namkai Norbu who claims a Bon lineage as well as a Buddhist one - his book on Dzogchen is great. I think that Dzogchen - primordial awareness - is a great concept and something that is great to practice while being frisked by security at airports.

[yahazim]

The Bon claim to be the most ancient tradition on the planet.

What I am about to say is mixed with my own perceptions, comments, and memory, so there are some details I could be wrong about. I don't study the Bon much, although I have been to a handful of Intensives and I've hosted both Lamas before, getting to know them intimately in a very short amount of time.

The Bon, more formally and correct being the Yungdrung Bon, are from the most ancient tradition on the planet. Their tradition begins in a traceable lineage beginning 16,000 years ago, with the physical manifestation of Tonpa Shenrab, the first Buddha. (Sakyamuni and the other Buddhas that modern Buddhism come from are from future Buddhas.)

This manifestation occured in the area of Tibet known as Jhang-Jung. What's interesting here is the Sufis call this exact spot Sarmone, where the seed of consciouness for the currently ending 26,000 year cycle was laid. Gurdjieff claims to have studied in this area with the hidden masters of Sarmone. Interesting, eh?

So Yungdrung Bon was born, and continued to flourish. Yungdrung means "Eternal", and Bon means "Light", the way of Eternal Light.

The tradition of Yungdrung Bon shares many similarities with current Tibetan Buddhism. The differences would be that the Bon place heavy emphasis on shamanic technique with the five elements of space, fire, water, air, and earth.

Dieties are worked with, as external beings with a life and spirit of their own that represent qualities of reality and mind. Mantras are practiced with Visualization techniques to merge with the intelligence of the diety, which corresponds to the qualities in us that we are learning through that diety. In other words, as without, so within. There is also the recognition of the Spirit of the Earth as some diety. (I forget).

There is your standard set of teachings ranked like a hierarchy that the practitioner systematically moves through, beginning with basic purifying and cleansing meditations, mantras, and visualizations to create a strength in innocence required to defeat portions of the ego.

My own experience of these mantras is profound. It's amazing how much power, potential, and purity one creates in oneself through these simple practices. I laugh cause most people don't understand this, because it means making an effort to practice instead of taking a pill. It requires effort, and yet is so simple. And there is so much power, energy, purity created through these practices that rival drugs. It's amazing what years of the lack of temperance for other religions has created in the modern individual -- NO FAITH OR HUMILITY to bow down and practice.

Anyway my personal experience of practicing the foundation teachings was profound.

Dark retreat is also a main practice. The two lamas I have worked with before have each done a YEAR dark retreat, total darkness, when around the age of 15. This theoretically means, that if dark retreat does what is supposed to do to the pineal and pituitary, they are forever living in the realm of a DMT and Harmine equivilant neurochemical experience.

My current yoga teacher and her main student have both done three day dark retreats. They say that one sits in darkness, and does the Bon practice. One's inner vision opens and one uses the practices to attune and commune with various dieties and to tune the "light of the nervous system, turning it up or down, and adjusting it with practice, like the color and contrast on a TV".

So... now the differences.

The Bon are a definate lineage. They are the most connected to the Earth than any other lineage.

Back in ancient times, I'm not sure how long ago, a King of Tibet who practiced Tibetan Buddism conquered and took Jhang Jung and their land. He discredited the Bon, denying their lineage, and they dwindelled down to a handful, carrying forth the teachings and lineage in a very pure form very close to underground. They were called heretics, pagans, etc. (sound familiar?)

Of course this happened after Padmasambhava brought a completely different lineage to the land, and merged some Bon practice with the other lineages that were around and created Tibetan Buddhism.

Some say this conquering of the ancient and respectable, humble, gentle people called the Bon resulted in modern Tibet being taken over by the Chinese as a karmic retribute. Interesting to think of, eh? Most people only think about the last 10,000 years. When we delve deeper we find the same pattern of history has been continuing alot longer than that. And this isn't the only pattern either.

So here we have the Bon. And now the Dalai Lama has recognized them, very recently, a lineage. Which is very good.

The Bon are the closest thing I've seen to ancient Shamans using something other than drugs to achieve shamanic states and modes of consiousness. I believe the Bon and the tradition of the Toltecs in South America to be from the same root source. It sure feels like it.

Terence McKenna DOES state though that the Bon use datura and hashish to COMPLIMENT their practice. I still have yet to see proof of this however, and will be writing Dennis McKenna to see if I can scrounge up any proof. If indeed there was entheogen use by the Bon, then it's a working theory that the energies that are coming to the human species to evolve us are coming through plants. Which is an interesting hypothesis indeed. Are plants the species that produce the energy for humans to live, like rocks do for plants, like we supposedly do for the Moon and the rest of the Universe, according to Mr. Gurdjieff?

A bit on the language used. The Bon use Tibetan for their objects, diety names, rituals, mediations, etc. Tibetan Buddhism, ironically, uses the language of its founder, Padmasambhava. I'm not discrediting Tibetan Buddhism, remember we are talking fundamental differences and not differences in energy, states of consciousness produced, and concentration of mind.

According to Lama Khemsar, Tonpa Shenrab generated ALL the languages in use on the planet through his heart. The symbols and associated sounds and grammer. Interesting, cause this is what McKenna and Crowley call the "Logos", then that could lead to the idea that 26,000 years ago came this "seed" filled with "language" that "seeded" the planet. Sounds alot like conception to me folks.

When I left the first intensive I went to, I was driving home with my best friend who also went. We were on the road for a while, and she points to a car and says "I think I want to get that car. I keep getting signs that say it's that kind." And we drive up to the car to look in, and it's filled with Buddhist Monks! Haha. Was such a cool synchronicity. We turned on the radio after that, and we were hearing everything as Tibetan. EVERYTHING. Change the channel, it was in Tibetan. Yet we were both able to understand the language and interpet its meaning.

So does that mean that these practices are a technology for ACCESSING THE LOGOS? Amazing.

About the practices...

I've practiced both and have experience of both. Yungdrung Bon produces states of concsiouness that feel soft, light, fluffy, colorful, very WATER like. Tibetan Buddhism produces states that feel firey, electric, concentrated, masculine, very FIRE like. These of course are my own perceptions, yours might be different.

Bon practice is so purifying. The effect is so amazing, and so simple it's a humbling Spirituality, not an ego producing kind of Spirituality like Hermetic Magick can produce.

As I said the practices are in a hiearchy. Gotta complete like 100,000 mantras of this that and the other before more advanced practice is given.

Dzogchen. There are four "streams" of Dzogchen. The Bon hold one "stream". Dzogchen is the transmission of states of concsiousness through the teacher to you. The transmission of this energy occurs through the teacher reading the teachings, which are letter to letter and sound to sound a "perfect" duplicate of what was handed to the students for 16,000 years. Imagine the morphagenic field on those practices folks, huh?

What most people in the West don't realize is Dzogchen is enlightenment. You are being handed enlightenment on a platter. But the difficulty is in KEEPING THE STATE, and holding it. Which requires sensativity and concentration, both of which the normal Joe has VERY LITTLE of compared to those Lamas, or people who practice. So most people in the West who recieve these teachings don't "get it" and think of it as something in the past, or a cool trick, or phenomenon.

That's why Daniel when you said you use Dzogchen to get through the airport security, I just have to shake my head and say that's so disrespectful. Dzogchen, sure, is that simple, but it's a place to be all the time, with every conscious breath made, and renewed all the time. Dzogchen is about being nothing. To just use these practices as parlor tricks... i don't know. But again this is my own judgement.

Dzogchen is connecting to a lineage of "ancestors" (mind you) that extend back a LONG ASS TIME. For this one, 16,000 years, and is the oldest.

So, here you have it. I should get back to work.

Oh, a little bit about myself since I am in this flow:

I myself am a yoga practitioner. Have been practicing for 8 years. I know five different yogas, I can teach four of them. I've also been taught the fundamentals of what Tantra REALLY is and what Sufism is as well.

I am also a user of entheogens. I do not feel complete with my exploration of plants and other entheogens because I am looking for the real and solid connections between yoga, spiritual practice and entheogenic use. However since I do use entheogens, I have not fully stepped onto the stages that are more deep and more refining that only spiritual practice with one's internal chemistry can do.

I believe that entheogens are here to awaken the planet FAST because of the current planetary crisis.

I believe the plant based entheogens as a call from the Spirit of the Earth, Gaea; blessed be.

I believe that we as a world culture need to embrace these substances, responsibly, to remove enough boundries to see and understand the capability of what we can do as a species with a united passionate cause to really evolve.

I also believe that these substances are not required to evolve, and will limit ones evolution. There is comes a time when one must learn to do it oneself. One cannot bring a cup of ayahuasca or a chronic blunt or some hits of MDMA through the portal of death.

Ok. That's it. I hope everyone goes to see the Matrix on the FIRST DAY IT COMES OUT. Hey, if people can get together and pray for peace globally, we can get together globally and see that movie, projecting Truth into the people below in the Theatre, praying for our awakening to the Truth.

Blessed Be and Namaste.

[ February 09, 2003, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: yahazim ]

[sidecross]

Thank you, yahazim, for writing about Yungdrung Bon. A practice with a 16,000 year old lineage is one to be taken seriously.

The section on Dark retreat reminded me of the work John Lilly had done on isolation tanks and why Terence McKenna always recommended taking psychedelics in darkness and silence.

[Buzz]

yazazim,
Thanks for the info on the Bon. I'd like to know more. The Toltec/Bon link is an interesting one. I personally believe that there was travel between Asia and the Americas far prior to Columbus. And between Africa and the Americas, judging by those huge Olmec heads. An Olmec figurine from 3000+ years ago was recently discovered to have Ancient Chinese writing on it.

Another note of interest. My wife attended a Tibetan Buddhist Chant, Sing and Dance demonstration a few years ago at a university I taught at. They revealed a parallel with the Navaho language and theirs, apparently there are several Navaho words that are pronounced and MEAN the the exact same thing as their Tibetan counterparts. And there are also those sandpaintings.

[yahazim]

^^^

Yup. My experience with high dosages of mushrooms with a bit of ayahuasca showed me that all language originates from the same source.

I was able to understand any language and talk in any language fluently.

I would like to do Bon Nundril practice with this combination in a completely dark room. I'd bet one would tap good connections for future practice.

[daniel]

yahazim writes: "Daniel when you said you use Dzogchen to get through the airport security, I just have to shake my head and say that's so disrespectful. Dzogchen, sure, is that simple, but it's a place to be all the time, with every conscious breath made, and renewed all the time. Dzogchen is about being nothing. To just use these practices as parlor tricks... i don't know. But again this is my own judgement."

yahazim,

I didn't mean any disrespect. I have been loving the idea of dzogchen - and the texts on it, including Namkai Norbu's book - since I discovered it last year. However I feel perfectly justified in joking about it because I have no interest in any kind of enlightenment without humor. And I have been trying, intermittently, to just be nothing all the time.

The underlying point is that I feel our current accelerating state of global mania is a great opportunity to become a more profound practicioner of whatever path you are on. The development of fearlessness becomes a necessity, when the media and government have become a feedback loop of fear. I would say laughter is a great antidote.

[katachthonios]

re: the Darkness retreats mentioned above, I thought some may be interested in Taoist master Mantak Chia's site which gives lots of interesting details about his own version, at:

http://www.universal-tao.com/dark_room/index.html

The pdf's are very interesting -- they explore the link between melatonin, 5-MeO-DMT & DMT in the brain after prolonged periods of darkness.

Although, as a bit of a caveat, I read an interview with master Chia where it was claimed that Chia invented the Micro/Macrocosmic Circulation (a QiGong exercise), and that everyone else who mentions this practice in a book is essentially ripping him off, and he did nothing to refute that. Oh well.

[Jon Hanson]

My head is exploding to find another bonpo practitioner who is open to the
psychedelic experience. Yahazim, it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance.
Obviously, you have been blessed if you are having experience such
as you describe. Lots to talk about!

First, adding to the nice commentary about bon and shamanism for the discussions
benefit. The Yungdrung Bon are the monasticized branch of the “bon” family. Very
systematized. As I posted in another list here on B.O.T.H., the tibetan description
of shamanism is referred to as causal vehicles. There are about three divisions to the whole set of bon-ish wisdoms, the southern, the northern, and some other one I can’t get off the top of my head. They all basically have this underlying structure: “shamanism,” “philosophy
and resulting conclusions (morals),” “tantra,” and “Dzog Chen.”

Yungdrung Bon obviously has it’s own version of history which the rest of modern
academia is catching-on to, catching-up to, whichever you prefer. The non-centralized more
indigenous tradition is known as just bon, or in Nepal: Bom-po. This is closer to the
wide spread and very diverse folk tradition associated with grass-roots shamanism.
I believe that the book “shamanism and tantra of the Himalayas” does offer great insight
into this type of culture. Yet, I have to say that the author, cool as he is with his german
techno vib, is biased towards shamanism and doesn’t have much of a grip on meditation
or more formalized versions of his subject. I personally think they are related mental
phenomena that are great in their own right and a curserary treatment of such huge
areas is uncalled for. Along the same line: considering the hundreds of millions of tantra
practitioners in the world and history, I would hardly say there is lineage or form that
is truly “really” Tantra. A tantra true and real to a lineage, sure, but the spirits change
things a lot and even california “sex” tantra has some valid effects. Not that I’m experienced
in that sort of things. No, I’m not that lucky. I have the sense that “real” tantra is kinda
like “real” native american stuff. The generality doesn’t do justice to the specifics and
the diversity. Sorry, don’t mean to harp on it.

Anyway, a really handy understanding of bon causal vehicles (aka - shamanism) comes
from the tibetan language itself.

“po wa” - is a person that ejects their consciousness out the top of their head (usually)
and travels about the spiritual planes. There is a formal practice of phowa and then
there is the trance experience of spiritual travel done by a powa.

“nag pa” - is a person who specializes in mantra and magic. Although the theories or
explanations of magic and how it works differs, it is sufficient to say that a nagpa is
person with Siddhi, shakti, or powers.

“lha pa” - is a person who is possessed by deities and powerful spiritual beings.

I’m sure there is an infinitude of variations upon these. They do all have similiarity,
and the biggest unity is the “nature of mind” (aka - dzog chen)

On another note, I buy into a bit of the language thing. After my main initiations into
various bonpo practices I fell in love with language. Currently I’m working on a long-term
project to learn 30 living languages fluently. This from a guy who hardly manage 2
days of German and a day of French all throughout public school and undergraduate. I’ve heard of other people getting “hit by the light” and having instant fluency. Kinda like the matrix downloading or the american wet dream of easy language learning, “only ten seconds a day to fluent spanish!” Don’t get me wrong, I wish it would happen to me.

I am really really happy to find a bonpo open to psychedelics. Did I say that already.
Yes, I’m just that happy!

I hung out with Daniel’s Secoya friends and did mantas on
yage’ when they left me to my own devices. It was incredible! When I did the main
ceremony with Estaban and friend I had a picture of Lopon Tenzin Namdak, Tenzin
Wangyal Rinboche’s teacher, up above me. Had incredible amounts of all kinds
of dimensions flow through me. Among this phasmagorioum was Chamma (Jamma)
the bon loving goddess of golden light. She was a big part of my experience, and
went strait into the shaman. My final trip in the jungle was one of complete control.
I could travel anywhere, see any one, and basically do anything my hyped up
mind could think of. That kind of experience really lets you know what’s lying beneath
the surface of your consciousness and down into instinct.

I went to see lopon in Nepal, and stood before Tenzin Wangyal as part of the lineage.
After individually seeing family and teachers created a place to be with everyone I loved
with deep personal connection. My family, both Tenzins, and the whole Yungdrung lineage
were all there. The lineage of masters were all sitting in order on the huge long single
couch. It was great! Lots of other stuff, but some other time.

One final word on the two lamas, Tenzin Wangyal and Lama Khemsar. I originally
went to Ligmincha in Virginia to meet Tenzin Wangyal because of certain dream
experiences. But it was his Root Lama, Lopon Tenzin Namdak who was my heart
lama. It was an amazing connection, I’m so hoping I get to take monastic vows from
Lopon before either of us pass on again. Tenzin Wangyal and his organization is a
strange one for me. I dream about him, I see his power, but there’s a lot of tension
and contradiction around him.
For one thing, both Khemsar and TW are only available at a high price. I can’t afford
either one of them. It’s less money to fly to India or Nepal and hang out as long
as you want with lamas who will give you personal attention than to attend even
one of their retreats. Even then you only get an interview or two. I even witnessed the “main” western student of Tenzin Wangyal using a sacred bell to whoop up bidding at an
auction for Tenzin’s organization. I think everything has it’s time and place. But a sacred
liturgic is for the ritual, not for showboating to get money out of people. Dzog Chen on the
other hand. That is for everywhere and everything. If your being searched at an airport
or if your sitting at your shrine, if your picking up dog poop or writing a bloody letter.
There is no place the nature of mind is not present, there is no place the nature of mind
should not be known. If you know it in all places and all times then you are enlightened. Daniel, from a guy who has studied Dzog Chen intensively, I think you have your finger on the pulse, even in the airports. Proper respect in the relative world of phenomena and
proper respect in the absolute world of pure consciousness are two different things
because there are two different levels being addressed. The tibetan oriented way of saying that is “Samsara of mortals, Pureland of buddhas.”

The question, until the nature of mind is evident every where and when, is what supports
are good for the individual’s development. Lamas are suppose to be a main support.
People are putting investment into these two lamas as if they are their true root lamas and the students are getting rolled and smoked. Not that the lamas mind, they’re rooted in the nature of mind, but few students are on the level. Well, that’s the way of institutional tibetan. Slow and sure and lots of deferring authority. I personally would have given up on personal relationship with Tenzin but he keeps popping up in dreams and yage experiences.

With all that said, I should qualify that I have root vows from the bon mother tantra not to make trouble for my teachers. Since I’ve gotten a lot from both Lopon and Tenzin Wangyal I should say that Tenzin is a skillful instructor. I just think that these teachings should be passed on in more genuine fashion, not based on who can pay the door fee. Lopon never
charges and you can walk through his door for free. Plus he is one of the best original
sources in the world as a Tibetan Elder. Other highly qualified bon lamas are also making the tour circuit in the west and very worthy of consideration. Tenzin Wangyal is one of Lopon’s
many protégées, so there is great worth there too.

Hope the letter wasn’t too cantankerous, I really think there is potential interaction here.
I’ve love to talk more to about this subject. Especially bon and psychedelics. What
better way to know they practices. Did you know that there is an herb that induces
lucid dreaming! What better training for the afterlife and bardo!

Thanks,
Jon

[Jon Hanson]

One more thing, there seems to be a real link between
the iranian/persian zoraster/zorasterianism and
the Yungdrung Bon. And there is actually a language
link between Mongolian and Navajo. It's called "Kit"
and is spoken by about 10 people. I think some
linguistics people are on it, but that info comes directly
from a Navajo Ph.D. in linguistics. I find that Tibetan
and Hopi are way more similiar, at least on the
phonetic level all the sounds are nearly identical.
Also, many words have opposite meanings between
the two languages. The main philosophical connection
between the Tibetan and Hopis is the universal
compassion thing, bodhicitta! There might be some
global geometic/energy connection between the
two lands as well, but I don't really know.

[Goddess Kwan Yin]

yahazim writes: "Daniel when you said you use Dzogchen to get through the airport security, I just have to shake my head and say that's so disrespectful. Dzogchen, sure, is that simple, but it's a place to be all the time, with every conscious breath made, and renewed all the time. Dzogchen is about being nothing. To just use these practices as parlor tricks... i don't know. But again this is my own judgement."

Hello Yahazim, Daniel, all,

With all due respect, and I do mean that quite sincerely, isn't airport security part of "a place to be all the time"? I think Daniel was anything but disrespectful. Maybe he *got* what most miss ie. that IS the point of spirituality, enlightenment in the here and now, all the time even at airport security. This IS the crux not a parlor trick. I genuinely use my spiritual tools all the time everywhere even finding a parking place in San Francisco!

I'm also certain the God/GoddessAllThatIs/Godhead/TheDivineGround or whatever is your concept of the supreme being or force would welcome humor as not just a side-effect of enlightenmebt, but an entheogen as well.

I am serious and do hope I have not offended any,
GoddessKwanYin@aol.com

[Buzz]

Are yahazim and Jon Hansen still out there?

Any progress reports?

Jon wrote about the Tibetan/Hopi link. I've been hearing more about it. Hopis & Tibetans have apparently been meeting.

[silentwolf]

Nice rezz, Buzz!

There was a tea served in the temples of China during the time Buddhism had just taken root in, and especially when the Cha'an system was beginning; it is composed of a combination of a few spices, leaves of cannabis indica, ephedra grasses, and ginseng. It's said that four or five of these cups would fill you with great vigor and have you leaping about in ecstatic joy.

There's a similar drink called "Bhang" which is considered holy in India, the place from which Buddhism sprang, and is also composed of Cannabis Indica leaves. It only makes sense that traditions of the drink followed the teachers of Buddhism across to the Pacific Ocean.

[forteanajones]

Thanks Buzz, I'd missed yahazim's nice overview. In my Bon studies, I haven't connected with anyone yet who feels personally devoted to shamanic practices although I've met a couple in passing. The funny thing is, they are all actually doing shamanic practices but I sometimes sense uncomfortableness when I bring this subject up with Western practitioners, almost like there is a stigma about the shamanism aspect. Nice to hear that the datura that grows in my yard is connected to this tradition (not sure how they use it, but I understand it is also supposed to be a protective spirit or deity).

Dark retreat sounds particularly intense! I assume it does not involve a small chamber which has always put me off when I've thought about sensory deprivation practice. I'd much prefer a cave or something.

Last weekend I attended a 2-day Tsa Lung Trul Khor ("Magical Wheel") introductory workshop in Berkeley. Trul Khor is an ancient physical yoga taught in the Mother Tantra ("the sphere of the elements" chapter) and for Westerners in particular it can deepen a person's understanding of prana and the channels.

We focused mostly on Tsa Lung which is an important support practice, working with the body's subtle channels (tsa), the five kinds of vital breath (lung, or prana or qi) which correlate to the five elements. I look forward to getting deeper into Trul Khor in a couple months.

[Agent Smith]

hey i really enjoyed this thread, and the perspective on Bon Shamanism...

...i'd love to learn more about the '3 year darkness retreat', i found the information on chia's site to be highly interesting...

...so what's the deal with the 3 year Bon retreat? do they still practice this? how much preperation is needed, what kind?