enbalming

[slothrop]

Hello all.
Recently finished "Breaking..." and found it quite compelling.
As a result of reading the book, I had an experience. A thought came to me: "what if embalming people when we die is a way to keep us from evolving? Somehow interrupting the natural decomposition and keeping the soul from progression."

I get home and am surfing, and am led to an article abt. Rudolph Steiner. It was referenced by Daniel in an interview abt. crop circles. It was kind of idle, late-night internet activity, and I was not thinking about that particular thought at the time. I was drawn to the article and when I read this excerpt, I felt chills:

"In the social-cultural sphere, Ahriman's influence is apparent everywhere, especially strong and growing stronger throughout the Twentieth Century. Chief among the Ahrimanic trends are:

...In medicine: materialistic, mechanistic (and atrocious) experimentalism and treatment, without understanding of the living human individual (The related practice of embalming corpses tends to bind the human entity to earth; this is an Ahrimanic reflection of ancient Egyptian mummification.)..."

I am putting this out for comment, both the experience itself and the embalming issue, and look forward to any thoughts anyone has to share. I would love to hear from Daniel, as he has stated that he has been drawn to the works of Steiner. That's all I can get from this, that is, I should check out some Steiner.

Here's a link to the very interesting article referenced:article (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1105/ahriman.htm#theahrimanizationofculture)

or if I did that wrong, copy this address:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1105/ahriman.htm#theahrimanizationofculture

[ May 09, 2005, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: slothrop ]

[slothrop]

...just realized i spelled embalming wrong in the title of this thread. whoops.

[sire_012]

interesting that the sculpture of ahriman that steiner carved and is pictured in the article above looks like a mix of the grey alien and nosferatu. there has been a whole slew of conjecture about what the greys represent on this board, again relating back to steiner, but i'm not sure that anyone has ever directly related them to ahriman. have they? it would make sense... the archetype being these hyper-science minded creatures inundating culture and pulling samples of cows (another steiner reference to heavy earth stuff), and trying albeit seemingly ineffectually to grok humanity. didn't steiner mention that Ahriman would be preceeded by lessor minions of that current sent first? fascinating.

don't know if any of this holds water, but it does get the wheels waking up a bit.

re: embalming... i did notice that the now dead Pope was buried without a coffin right into the mud. i've always wanted that same treatment (i hsould be pope!). actually i've always wanted to be served as a loose meat buffet, the meat presented out of my corpse, teh belly cut away and the tasty tasty meat setting where my gut should be. all my friends could then convert me into more fun via a fine tasting loose meat sandwhich. any cooks on this board?

[willoweyes]

Sire, that's gross. I hope you are kidding.

I did notice the late pope's burial rites. In the Jewish tradition, embalming is not done, and really a simple winding sheet is the way to go. In America, a box is used, but has no metal fasteners and appears to be a heavy cardboard.. When my husband's grandmother passed, we had to drive to Dallas for the special coffin. We were afraid it was going to rain--if it had, the coffin would have melted.

slothrop, I've always felt that until the body was disassembled, the soul would not be free. Imagine the horror of being bound to a mummy. Those poor ancient Egyptians.

BTW, excuse my nosiness, but where did you come by "Slothrop"?

______________________________

"Make things as simple as possible--but no simpler." Einstein

[Thom]

"interesting that the sculpture of ahriman that steiner carved and is pictured in the article above looks like a mix of the grey alien and nosferatu."

I saw something similar to this when i was looking into a mirror on mushrooms. It was accompanied by a feeling that the air had become denser, as if i was being wrapped in a lead shroud.

At the time i interpreted it as a vision of my own 'Spectre' - Blake: "The Spectre is the reasoning power in man, and when seperated from imagination and closing itself as in steel in a ratio of the things of memory, it thence frames laws and moralities to destroy imagination, the divine body..."

Not dissimilar to Ahriman perhaps.

[Agent Smith]

oh boy...there's so much here... for now though i'll just say this...ahriman doesn't worry me...

...mithras will PAY!!! i'm gonna get that bovine bastard!!

[egret]

interesting what you say about embalming. i always kinda suspected the egyptians may have gone wrong at a certain point, maybe taking things too literally or trying to preserve some part of ego you cant, or shouldnt. you can see it in some of their later statues : these guys are "gritting their teeth" into eternity. maybe they forgot that not only conscious effort, but just letting go, is a part of it.

but earlier stuff, like the Mycerinus statue in Boston (he's the pharoah who supposedly built the third of the Giza pyramids) is beautiful, beautiful, beautiful...

[slothrop]

tyrone slothrop was kind of the main character in "Gravity's Rainbow". I had to come up with some name for this, I just picked that one. I like that book.

[dragonfly]

I find embalming repugnant from an ecological perspective. Embalming fluids are toxic and put funeral home employees at risk of health problems. In addition, the effluent from funeral homes is not regulated and can be flushed straight into the sewer system. For more on the environmental aspects of the practice, visit http://www.funerals.org/faq/embalm.htm

[willoweyes]

slothrop, i am so embarrassed--now the whole world knows I haven't read Gravity's Rainbow--and if they've been paying attention, they know I've missed Jack KEroac as well. and in the midst of some drunken inattention, i even missspelled Motzart recently! Fart!

[Thom]

Oh come on everybody has read Gravity's Rainbow. Ah Pynchon...

What's it about? Well, let me just refresh my glass...

[willoweyes]

BTW, the mere fact that "we" (this culture we are embedded in) are discussing embalming as a serious option (and not a joke or horror) and have been doing so for thousands of years--has got to cause Alarm Bells to ring somewhere.

[silentwolf]

Embalming is considered because it's a way of preserving the body. Why do the living preserve the bodies of the dead? Because they fear death themselves, of course!

Most people can't come to terms with death. In cultures where dying was considered a privelege, the bodies of the dead were either burnt on huge pyres, set afloat to see and burnt, or hung from trees so the beasts and fowl could consume the corpse. Here, we consider death a tragedy and give our condolences. I always want to say "Congratulations!" to the family of the recently deceased, because I've seen where they go to, but most people couldn't handle it and I simply restrain.

Fear of dying will keep you from living, from really living.

[DogSoldiers]

I'm also anti-embalming and have learned to accept my death as a beautiful part of my life.

My perfect death would be to go for a walk (as an old grey haired, wrinkly man) in some woods that I've enjoyed visiting throughout my life and just rest up against a big old tree watching the sun go down. Then with a huge smile on my face I'd close my eyes and rest assured that I had lived a great life. Giving my body back to Mother Earth the natural way, in the circle of life.

Of course, some fool would come along and find my bones and insist on a "Christian" burial. And I'd come back to haunt his ass. LOL.....J/K.

[dragonfly]

Originally posted by DogSoldiers:
My perfect death would be to go for a walk (as an old grey haired, wrinkly man) in some woods that I've enjoyed visiting throughout my life and just rest up against a big old tree watching the sun go down. Then with a huge smile on my face I'd close my eyes and rest assured that I had lived a great life. Giving my body back to Mother Earth the natural way, in the circle of life.Nice! A friend of mine wants to be buried in the earth with an acorn so she can become an oak tree. There are also possibilities like this:

Cemetery offering organic burial option
By Lisa Leff, Associated Press Writer *|* June 23, 2004

MILL VALLEY, Calif. -- In what may be the ultimate expression of back to nature, three entrepreneurs are creating what they say is California's first organic cemetery, hoping their ban on floral arrangements and formaldehyde will serve as a national model.

Embalming fluid, metal caskets and marble headstones won't be permitted at Fernwood Forever. Instead, the dead will be placed in biodegradable boxes or shrouds and interred in nondescript graves that mourners can dig themselves.

To ensure visitors pay their respects at the right spot, the cemetery will provide global positioning system devices and native boulders as markers.

The partners think their business model can be easily replicated in other crowded areas where space is at a premium. Co-owner Tyler Cassity said they already are scouting potential sites in Oregon, near Seattle and outside Chicago.

Besides offering environmentally conscious San Francisco Bay area residents a green alternative to identical plots on heavily landscaped grounds, the new cemetery will preserve 32 acres of open space between San Francisco Bay and Stinson Beach, Cassity said.

Some proceeds from each funeral will be used for restoring and maintaining the meadows, oak forests and scrub hills that make up the property, a portion of which has been in use as a conventional cemetery since the 19th century.

"The idea is returning to the land what we have taken from it," said Cassity, 34, a second-generation veteran of the mortuary business whose family renovated the celebrity-rich Hollywood Memorial Park Cemetery in 1998. "If you talk to someone about this concept, they will often say, 'I always wanted to be buried naturally under a tree.' It just rings true to them."

Fernwood Forever still must clear state and local regulatory approval, but its owners expect it to open later this year. It would be the nation's second eco-cemetery, according to project partner Joe Sehee, a Los Angeles writer. The first was opened in South Carolina by physician Billy Campbell, who has joined Cassity and Sehee for what they are calling their "memorial nature preserve" in this Marin County town.

About 50 people have chosen to spend eternity at Campbell's 35-acre Ramsey Creek Preserve in Westminster, S.C., since it opened in 1996. Cassity and Sehee see a bigger market in the Bay Area, where they estimate that 80 percent of the deceased are currently cremated. They say they already have a waiting list of about 100 interested customers.

The owners aren't sure how much room they'll have -- they're doing an ecological survey that will determine how many people can be buried on site. Prices haven't been set yet either, but Sehee said he expects the cemetery to cost less than a traditional venue.

In attacking the expense, trappings and "obsolescence" of the funeral industry, Cassity said he also hopes to provide survivors with more meaningful bereavement rituals. Relatives will be encouraged, for example, to accompany the bodies of their loved ones to the crematorium or to participate in candlelit memorial services sitting in circles with an urn in the center.

Along with a GPS device, visitors will be given hand-held audio-video units that display mini-documentaries about a dead person's life. Staff members will be called "stewards" instead of funeral directors and -- when they aren't assisting grieving families -- will build trails and remove nonnative plants.

The partners say they also want Fernwood Forever to be a place for celebrating the living as well as the deceased. Accordingly, they plan to encourage the public to use the cemetery for weddings, baptisms and other meaningful occasions.

"The whole idea is to provide a space where people can get in touch with the cycles of life, where death and decay can exist alongside rebirth and renewal," Sehee said. "That's what you see in nature."

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On the Net:

Memorial Ecosystems: http://www.memorialecosystems.com*