Board Moderating?

[daniel]

Recently I have been receiving a number of complaints from users of this board about a few posters and postings. I am very loath to throw anyone off the board for misbehavior, or to sanction someone for saying anything, no matter how stupid or ill-considered or manipulative it might be. I think that "learning" (or whatever takes place here) is a dynamic process, and generally there is something to be learned from everyone's perspective who passes through here - people also have the option of simply ignoring or not reading posts that bother them, and adding a new post or topic that shifts the energy in another direction.

I feel that, as in the subjects of psychedelics and shamanism, with this board, it is
really the individual's responsibility to separate signal from noise for themselves.
The board is meant to be an open forum. I don't want to act as a dictator banning
people for having different views - I count on the collective intelligence of the
group and the specific intelligence of the individual to neutralize any threat for
themselves.

Perhaps the board provides a microcosm of the larger process happening now,
which is a kind of ecology of mind in turbulent evolution?

However, I did want to open this discussion - if an overwhelming number of people feel I should censure or evict those who impede the flow, or constantly annoy, I will consider it.

[willoweyes]

No censorship! while I have been dismayed by some of the recent unhappy feelings flowing around the board, I'm sure they are not so threatening as an attack by a Type#177 demon! This is an open and beautiful place--I learn from everyone who posts here.

[sidecross]

That it took 903 members to reach this point is progress.

[gone]

Yes, those posts are a large pain in the arse, but I think we have to live with the inconvenience of them for the sake of transparency.

[Gift Horse]

I have participated in alot of eye-rolling lately.

I especially don't appreciate what I call "recruit attempts" that I have read here. Its kinda creepy.

However, I do like your idea, Daniel, of this board being a microcosm of the world. In a board format, I have a better, more relaxed opportunity to observe my own reactions, try and figure what button is being pushed with out having to react out loud. An exercise in awareness, if you will.

[ February 18, 2005, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Gift Horse ]

[silentwolf]

First off, I'd like to apologize to anyone that I have offended on this board; nothing I have posted was meant to insult or injure.

It's my greatest hope that everyone else on this forum feels the same way as I do about that, and from what I've seen, the vast majority of you do. In all honesty, we shouldn't need someone to have to pour over the posts and pop off those that are deliberately offensive or...beyond our personal tolerance levels. I do my best to make certain I don't push people too far, although I am not as adept at communicating myself at times as I should be.

I like this forum because it gives me a chance to communicate with people of (somewhat) like mind, with whom I would have not ordinarily had the opportunity to converse. There are some pretty nutty things said on here from time to time, and a few people tend to defer to "experts" rather than trust their own experiences, but I still enjoy reading the posts, and I check the board a couple of times a day just to see what's changed.

I think my point is kind of just this...say what you feel, but make sure that what you're saying is actually what you're feeling and not a response to how you're feeling. Don't say anything for shock value, or to torment someone else. Just treat others like you want to be treated, and if they act like a tard, pass them the apple sauce and a bib.

[Isaiah Mpski]

...and if they act like the bard,piss on em and give them a kiss...

This is how it is with me fellows.
Back during my early days in Oklahoma I advertized in the Mother Earth News for a wife.you know standard advertizment....physician,ex-weatherman looking for wife.1000 per month guaranteed.
I must have gotten a thousand replies.
I picked out the best 100 and ask them to write again and send pictures.
Out of those responses I picked 10 and told them if they would send some real good pictures i would consider paying their way to Oklahoma.
Out of the 5 I sent money to,it turned out three of them-all males in prison running some sort of scam.Another was female impersonator and the 5th wasn't worth messing with.She was too busy beating on her kid.
What I'm saying is,Daniel,I don't like backstabbers and I don't men and I don't like liars so you can ban all three and us gods would be much happier.

[Manning]

I've been involved in various online communities for a number of years in every role from newbie to founder. These are a few guidelines I've developed for myself. Others may find them useful... or not.</font> If you are "relating to" someone else, you are in a relationship with them. (However informal it may be.)</font></font> Relationships belong to the people who are in them. I don't want anyone else to tell me who I should be relating/talking to and I don't want to try and determine who someone else should be relating/talking to. If I've chosen to engage in dialogue with someone else it's because I have made the personal decision to do so. That choice belongs to me and no one else. Likewise, who someone else may be drawn to engage with (or not) is their own personal business.</font></font> It is the multiple strands of "relationship" that builds (a sense of) "community".</font></font> Heated disagreement, intelligent debate, well-founded challenges, and (contained) personality clashes/conflicts tend to build interest in the community -- often, readership goes up during these times. However, it should further be noted that empathy, compassion and a sense of shared humanity also contribute to a sense of creating "community".</font></font> Unprovoked or unwarranted personal attack, harassment, and/or taunting nearly always serves to drive members away -- this includes long-term members as well as newbies.</font></font> A healthy balance of long-term members along with a steady influx of newbies is necessary if a community hopes to sustain itself or grow. Long-termers help provide structure, stability, and history. Newbies provide renewed interest, fresh perspective, and vitality.</font></font> Presumably, we are all adults. If we are not individually capable of controlling and conducting our own behavior in a respectful, responsible, and civil fashion, it's quite possible that we're not quite ready to be here.</font></font> Some people will get along fabulously. Often, this is charming and even heartwarming to witness, (or be part of). However, there sometimes comes a point in some relationships when it's more appropriate to move that relationship into a private space. If you and a friend are cyber-sticking your tongues into each others' ears, and you're not at a site that specifically encourages that kind of behavior, it might be time to get a room, or at least... a $2.95/minute phone line.</font></font> Other people will not get along at all. In my opinion, when two people do not get along with one another, their dislike or disapproval does not belong in a public space. If they want to argue and insult one another, they can retreat to their private mailboxes (on or off site) and say as many ugly things to each other as they want. When those kind of scenarios are permitted or tolerated in public spaces they inevitably degrade the tone of the community, and may even serve to divide or fragment it.</font></font> Calling attention to someone you do not like by repeatedly pointing out why you do not like them often serves to give them precisely the attention you said you didn't want them to get from anyone at all. It's worth considering your own motives at this point -- were you trying to help them by engaging them in a dialogue as a devil's advocate, trying to publicly berate/shame them, or does your relationship with them mirror some aspect of your relationship with your self?</font></font> There will always be at least one or two members who will pit themselves against anyone they deem to hold in a position of authority -- a founder, an administrator, a moderator, or simply a popular member. They will bait and taunt this individual repeatedly until that person leaves or takes action against them. If the former, the community has lost a valued member; if the latter, the master baiter will cry foul at that point as based on the supposed power inequity. In my opinion, when these individuals get banned, shunned, or otherwise, they are getting precisely what they wanted -- the opportunity to feel that "the establishment" is out to get them... with thanks to a whole lot of effort on their part. In at least some cases, this may reflect a pattern of "revictimization" on behalf of the wounded participant(s) caught in the cogs of the wheel of that particular game.</font></font> Occasionally, even often, there will also be those in power who will deliberately use that power to silence and manipulate members to satisfy their own needs as opposed to the needs of the collective community. In my opinion, those individuals are not deserving of any position of responsibility or leadership.</font></font> Everyone is a little bit different from everyone else. If people are banned as based on their differences the community soon takes on a stale, white bread flavor.</font></font> When relationships are allowed to belong to the people within them; when members take full responsibility for their own actions; and when people attempt to treat each other with civility and respect, it is rare that mature administrators or moderators ever have to put on their administering/moderating hats. However, there are some instances where they should always consider doing so. Such instances might include: sexual or other forms of explicit harassment, threats of violence, stalking, hacking, impersonating, denial of service attacks, gross copyright infringement, and possibly... when the actions of one, two, or a few members are negatively affecting the community at large.</font></font> Every community will develop their own norms, that is to say -- their own standard of acceptable forms of "relating to" one another. This is because every community is just a little bit different from every other community out there. And that is how it should be.</font></font> If your behavior is not accepted in one community there is no reason that anyone need feel shunned -- there are a thousand other places you can go where your behavior will be tolerated, even welcomed. Barring that, you can still snag a message board of your own off the net for free where you can determine your own rules. It's not about censorship at all. It's just about choosing your time and place according to the standards of the community you are in.</font>

[ February 19, 2005, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[Rob P]

hear here to you all!
there's no where else i'd rather be..
eye rolling, neutralizing,
reacting.....it's a pretty
amazing opportunity to
interact in this way-
learning so much from
everyone-
we're all big mirrors,
reflecting ourselves back to each other.
happy friday
r o b

[Thom]

I agree in principle with the "no censorship" stance, for the reasons Daniel has stated.

The situation should be looked at in shamanic terms, and in the light of the psychic turbulence of the transition, yes. We all have to learn to discriminate. Cabbala.

However, action against those using the board as a recruitment ground for personality cults shouldn't be ruled out. I'm not saying it's necessary now, but if the situation develops to an extent that vulnerable people are being preyed on, then I'd have no objections to a ban. As it stands now, it's possible to ignore the chaotic posts.

[Humming]

Yes, I also agree that there should be no censorship.

This is a delightful intellectual space to exist in, regardless of what kinds of static and innane obfuscation might sometimes seep in. When fools speak, they reveal themselves to be foolish. One of the things that people need to learn, especially now, in these times, is how to discern truth for themselves.

[jezebelle]

A tough lession:
Being a kid I was never afraid of going down the dark stairs first (I had 2 brothers & 5 sisters – no we weren't catholic).
I've been critisized for seeing the world as it should be and not the way it is.
Having said that, when I was younger I said such a thing to a friend. He challanged me to "trip" and go to the movie the "the alien." So I did.

I learned that one MUST ALWAYS face their dark side or alien. Meaning that which you critisize is really a thing in yourself that you are afraid to own or examine (I really hate that part)
You can run but you cannot hide, the cosmic bulldozer will make you try.

So, if you can't deal with it, just don't read it.

At least keep the dialogue going, best chance to heal.

Unless someone is writing in tongues and you can't recognize the letter combinations
(perhaps another foreum)

Love & respect, jez2

[Agent Smith]

you know for a minute i found myself responding to an individual on this board in a manner that i am accustomed to in other online communities.

i've recently had a shift in my life for the better, and figured 'why not let that just keep coming?', so no more energy in the direction of useless, and boring conflict.

as others above have stated, i don't mind honest disagreements, realitively respectful personality clashes, heated discussion, and the like among adults. when i find myself behaving in a less than adult like fashion, i really have to question my own motives.

at first i was wondering why daniel was allowing certain kinds of behavior (possibly even my own) on a community that seemed fairly blessed with a much lower than usual ration of annoying personalities (except possibly mine. tongue.gif )

after a while though, i have to agree with the above sentiment that we all have the oppertunity to learn how to deal with a variety of individuals, using the best ideals we say we we hold (or at least maybe i'm the one who needs to do this.)

some tibetean buddhist friends of mine once told me something that's helped. when we were given the oppertunity to interact with an exhasperatingly mentally ill person, my friends told me that the tradition tibetean view on mental illness, is that it is an extream form of selfishness on the part of the afflicted. they refuse to deal with their own issues, act out, and force the community to deal with them instead. the way this is usually handeled is that they are given 100% attention by caregivers (monks, family members whoever) and removed from the daily life of the community... in this way their attention seeking behavior, is both address, and not rewarded... i don't know how this works out all of the time, aspects of it make sense to me though.

especially when i find myself acting out for attention.

besides, some conflicts, and discussions are just plain boring.

[Lowlight]

i dont wish to see anyone banned, as freedom is essential, but i think that persoally abusive comments and or threatening karmic bad luck etc should not be present on the main threads. If people must do this why cont it be kept to private messages? i would also like to know what effect the ignore function has.

peace (please) we dont need division here!

Lowlight

[Thom]

Regarding the Tibetan Buddhist perspective, I was reminded of this speech from "Love's Labours Lost" by Shakespeare, which echoes the Rosicrucian dulia of "helping the sick with active love, selflessly, in the crowded busyness of life, while at the same time cultivating the ambitious soul in solitude." (Ted Hughes)

"A twelvemonth shall you spend, and never rest,
But seek the weary beds of people sick
(...)
to win me, if you please,
Without the which I am not to be won,
You shall this twelvemonth term, from day to day,
Visit the speechless sick, and still converse
With groaning wretches; and your task shall be
With all the fierce endeavour of your wit
To enforce the pained impotent to smile."

To quote Isaiah Mpinski earlier in this thread: "...and if they act like the bard,[snip] give them a kiss..." smile.gif

[ February 19, 2005, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Thom ]

[Thom]

Welcome to the board Tana. I don't know if you've read through the archives, but the level of discussion here is usually very inspirational and thought provoking. This is a great place to read and personally I've learned a lot here.

[ February 24, 2005, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: Thom ]

[Manning]

Lol Manning - that pool of jello does sound quite appealing! I might have to get my fiance into it...

I think you should try it one at a time. I suddenly find myself wondering if people can walk on jello. If you find out before I do, I hope you'll let us know.

[Isaiah Mpski]

I got into this group because Of of a particular discussion of peyote.It seemed to me that the ritual and the ingestion of the cactus had replaced the real meaning of the Native American Church and that being the man Quanah Parker.
It there is one common theme about the habitual intake of hallucinations it is that people who continue to eat alot of mushrooms start looking like the creatures who sit on top of them and people who continue to eat LSD become dumpster divers.
Also going on at the time I heard Daniel proclaiming that the he had received prophetic transmissions which led him to believe that a Messiah was just around the corner and I just happen to fit the bill.
Interspaced in all this I am completely amazed by the wisdom continually shared by Manning and the school boy jealousy of the new kid in school repeatedly expressed by several in this group.
Contrary to some people's paranoid thoughts I am not trying to impregnate all the women in this group with nothing more than my will although that aspect of Islamic belief does appeal to me.I will take care of most of the women who place their trust in me.You men will have to read of the Way in the Bible just like I did.
My climb to the top of the pyramid has been long and full of difficult moments and I'm not saying I am at the apex yet.There is only one way to the top and that is to step upward and inward all in one motion.Any other way and you fall,including on intoxication to lead you to the top,although I do enjoy my pot.
Wide is the gate that leads to destruction,narrow is the path to heaven.
For all you naysayers my journey has not been without reward as I have an income, several dwelling places,oil and gas,real estate and I live with Mother Mary and Mary Magdeline which in part tells me I am on the correct path to finish what Christ and alot of other prophets have done before me.The difference between me and them I am lucky enough to live in an era in which mountains can be moved and the stars thoroughly understood.
I welcome all who care to walk with me and who will give up what they know is wrong in their hearts.
Old frog,new pond.Old pond,new frog.SPLASH.

Mpski

[ February 20, 2005, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: Isaiah Mpski ]

[jezebelle]

Excuse me for interrupting:
LOL once I spent a dream, blopping around in a red ocean sort of like jello but gooeier and denser. It was quite fun to sort of throw yourself up and then ploop down in all sorts of positions.
I still remember that dream. LOL
hugs

[Isaiah Mpski]

ok.

[Isaiah Mpski]

Do we have any instrumentalists out there?
I play the trumpet.We can form a band too here in Oklahoma.

And by the way Manning,I have a trust that pays a woman who has my baby up to 1000 month until the child's 16th birthday.
Mpski-where two or more are gathered together in my name.

[ February 20, 2005, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Isaiah Mpski ]

[Isaiah Mpski]

Manning I went to Medical School in Antigua.St Johns Antigua is in part built in the hills.Every Sunday different bands would gather in houses on the hills practicing and the whole island would vibrate.It was wonderous,just like your song.

[jezebelle]

Hi guys,
Aside from enjoying this thread, sometimes I think I live in a box, culturely befret. So I ask who is Q. Parker? Someone interesting.
Speaking of interesting, Bradford Keeney is white bushman shaman, "Awakening the Spirit through Ecstatic Dance" speaks of the Big Love that he has seen spread in movement rather than stillness.
Hugs! jez2

[Isaiah Mpski]

Speaking of judges,after the authorities came and picked me up,and I mean literally because they first hit me in the mouth and then,after about a week, took me before Judge Jones who found me sane but agreed to pospone final determination on advice of the States psychiatrist,Bill Henry.
From there I was transported to the Galveston County Jail and on Nov 8th transported to Graves
Hospital and Psychiatric Ward where I was seen by Judge Thomas Youngblood who commited me into the hands of Dr Winston Martin who I told,face to face that if he gave me any shock treatments he wpwould be murdered,and he was.
So first Manning,the first time I meet a survivor of the war of psychiatrist,I ask.How many shock treatments did you get Manning,How many hours of deep shock insulin coma and did you get the hallucniogen Indaklon.
Yes,I talked with Q. Parker aka Milam M. King.

[nanouk]

Every Sunday different bands would gather in houses on the hills practicing and the whole island would vibrate.It was wonderous,just like your song.

Yes, I'm very fond of music too Isaiah. I think it was Buzz (or maybe Charlie?) who noted that rooted within string theory is the concept that the Universe is made up of music. (I'm paraphasing so if anyone else recalls that quote with more clarity feel free to correct me.)

music IS church.

'life without music would be a mistake'

...nietzche was not happy with the way things were going...god left the mountain, and man was lost for a little while,
but hey, species die out every day, and man is young.

was it 'Big in Japan' that had the huge hit called "Forever Young"?

let's move on.

electric shock is something to learn from, noone would want their sister or brother or mother or fsther to taste it, let alone one's son or daughter.

anyone heard of a 'rehab' called the "Priory"?

i heard they try to brainwash ppl there...

love and respect,

[ February 20, 2005, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: nanouk ]

[tana]

I think "Forever Young" was done by Alphaville.

[Isaiah Mpski]

I am the alpha and the omega,
the first and the last,
the beginning and the end.
No one cometh to the father
save through me.

Jesus Christ 33AD

Old pond,new frog.Old frog,new pond.SPLASH

Mpski 1996

[squanky]

"And by the way Manning,I have a trust that pays a woman who has my baby up to 1000 month until the child's 16th birthday." -Mpski

Ok, so i remember in a different thread you said "if you are the messiah, the government pays you $1000 for sixteen years"

Are YOU the government? I have thought about this for a while.

Another theory as to what you are, is that maybe you don't exist, and are, in fact, non-existent. Just words on my computer screen.

Another theory, daniels alter-ego.

Another theory, the Messiah.

In fact Isaiah, i don't know what to think of you. You are mysterious to me. I know that you make this forum interesting, but i am starting to see this interest fading as your word seems to be mostly self-centered and egotistical (in a very interesting and creative way, and most of the time beautifully done, some of the time you just sound kind of like a little kid, but, alas, we are all kids at heart aren't we? :rolleyes: ) with a few parables thrown in once in a while. The bottom line is, you will not tell this forum what you plan to do with your messiahness. Or what we, as your people, should do. Except worship you. And if worshipping a particular one person is the way into heaven, i need to seriously rethink my reality.

Which i would be willing to do, if it comes to it, but in that case i would see God as completly evil, but i would probably be able to laugh about it, proof that there is no evil.

Well, except maybe a deity that would send somone to an eternity of brimstone and fire, with no chance of getting out or accepting it.
That is pretty fucked up.

[ February 20, 2005, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: squanky ]

[Charlie]

Looks like I’m the odd man out—‘cause I disagree with just about everyone who’s chimed in on this topic.
Libertarianism is a wonderful concept in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we do not live in an ideal world. The real world is more than just intellectual "paradigms." Just as unfortunately, there are individuals who lack the dialectic tools necessary to make informed choices. These people, like society at large, need to be protected from predators.

Here are two (admittedly extreme) examples:

There is a forum just for young teens, and “Bobby” signs in one day, asking his new-found friends to post photos of themselves naked. Most of the kids are revolted, and either flame or ignore Bobby, but one or two naïve children post a photo, thinking it all quite innocent. Do you feel okay with this situation?

On a singles forum, “Loverboy” repeatedly displays a lewd, twisted and possibly violent attitude towards women. He constantly invites women to come meet him, all expenses paid. Again, he is flamed and ignored, but perhaps a lonelier woman falls for his line, and comes to a bad end. Again, should Loverboy be allowed to remain?

But these are extreme examples, not pertinent to this forum…

…right?

[willoweyes]

Charlie, I feel compelled to mention that efforts to "protect" often result in a police state. Who is the judge of what is offensive? I don't want someone to make these decisions for me. Look at what is happening in america, as they "protect" us into a state of scrutinized, investigated, catagorized domestication. When an animal becomes domesticated, it loses an average of 30 percent of its cognitive ability--as the human race becomes more "protected" from any conceivable danger, isn't the greater danger the fact that we lose the ability to discriminate for ourselves?

[willoweyes]

And, to disagree with another post on this forum, the fact that this issue was raised does not make me feel more "Secure." Like showing the instruments of torture to Galilleo, the mere mention of censorship has a chilling effect on discourse.

We are all grownups here, most of us discussing casually a subject that is illegal in the beacon of freedom America. If you cannot handle a few pungent references to things that we all know exist, it might not be healthy for you to dabble in shamanism--

[Isaiah Mpski]

Amen.

Mpski-2005-prounced ams key.The p is silent.

[Manning]

Libertarianism is a wonderful concept in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we do not live in an ideal world. The real world is more than just intellectual "paradigms." Just as unfortunately, there are individuals who lack the dialectic tools necessary to make informed choices. These people, like society at large, need to be protected from predators.

I do happen to agree with you on the extremities of this point. I feel each individual has a responsibility to their own personal safety, and in some instances, the safety of others. In an earlier post I also listed some examples where I feel administrators should consider becoming involved in relationships between members, (i.e., stalking, or threats of violence). I have been involved in communities where these kind of events have taken place, with the greatest risk being that the online harassment could move to an offline venue.

I have no doubt that Isaiah is a very real person (not a troll), and there is some validity to the personal history he has shared on this board via a rich tapestry of traceable, personal details (along with numerous references to cash payouts). As a result -- and perhaps ironically given your feelings about the man -- the community member who is most vulnerable to the type of risk you describe is Isaiah himself.

[Isaiah Mpski]

To put it all in a nutshell,and if I get the tongue in cheek meaning of Daniel's comment I shall limit by preaching-that is away from Psychiatry and It's All Ok-to either of two days per week.
And shall that be Saturday or Sunday Daniel.

[willoweyes]

Manning: Isn't it strange--just changing one little word in a sentence changes its meaning completely. I didn't say raising the issue of censorship "bothered" me--I said it didn't make me feel more secure.

The issue being raised doesn't bother me--I do point out it has a result--the chilling of discourse.

[Manning]

Manning: Isn't it strange--just changing one little word in a sentence changes its meaning completely. I didn't say raising the issue of censorship "bothered" me--I said it didn't make me feel more secure.

Let's take another look at that...

willoweyes: the fact that this issue was raised does not make me feel more "Secure." Like showing the instruments of torture to Galilleo, the mere mention of censorship has a chilling effect on discourse.

Manning: It doesn't bother me in the least that this issue was raised. I'm inclined to think open discourse is healthy and valuable

Perhaps the misunderstanding is in thinking I was speaking for you willoweyes. I was not. I was speaking for myself. You stated your discomfort and why you feel that way. I then stated my lack of discomfort and why I feel that way.

Even after re-reading your words I still feel the same way. I can't help but wonder if suggesting that the mention of censorship will chill the discourse doesn't become a form of subtle censorship by implying there are things that should not be spoken of for fear of negatively impacting the discussion. I'm much more fond of dragging everything into the light.

We appear to have a difference of opinion and preference, nothing more. My apologies if I did not make it clear that I was speaking for myself, and not for you.

[willoweyes]

And another thing, Manning. You don't consider it censorship because everyone has to adhere to the same guidelines? Hmm. I'll have to run that one through my logic kalidescope.

This is not my website, and I have no decision-making functions here. I like to state my rants, and I love the funny, sad, moving life stories I see here. The level of discourse is really stunning. This place is better than a serialized tale by Dickens, and one of its chief beauties is its freedom from hypocrisy. It would be sad to muzzle that sense of delicious freedom.

What are you really afraid of?

[Manning]

And another thing, Manning. You don't consider it censorship because everyone has to adhere to the same guidelines? Hmm. I'll have to run that one through my logic kalidescope.

Okay.

This is not my website, and I have no decision-making functions here.

Ahhh, perhaps we are not so different at all.

I like to state my rants, and I love the funny, sad, moving life stories I see here. The level of discourse is really stunning. This place is better than a serialized tale by Dickens, and one of its chief beauties is its freedom from hypocrisy. It would be sad to muzzle that sense of delicious freedom.

Perhaps I've missed something -- where did I muzzle someone's sense of delicious freedom? Like you, I have no power to make decisions here, only contribute my opinions about the decisions that could be made as daniel deems fit to make them.

What are you really afraid of?

I don't know. Do you have any suggestions for me? Perhaps if you offered me a swatch of samples I could pick one... maybe something in a deep merlot or emerald, because it would match my socks. smile.gif

[willoweyes]

Thank you for giving people a second opportunity to read my post.

[Isaiah Mpski]

You're welcome.

[Manning]

You're welcome. And what about you -- did you have the opportunity to figure out what you're afraid of?

[willoweyes]

Ahah! Isaiah and Manning are one and the same!

[Isaiah Mpski]

Manning is afraid of shock treatments and he shouldn't be.They only dispense them in numbers of 7 or less anymore and they do them on an out-patient basis.
Make you forget for awhile what you are depressed about Manning.Prednisone will make it better.
Now I know that Daniel has limited me to one day a week but can you imagine what it would be like to be a god?A God on top of a pyramid high on coke and cutting out hearts?Or better than that coming back to kill a psychiatrist and his accompli (if only in a dream).
It is good to hate.Hate that which is evil,which is death.

[nanouk]

it is not impossible to write from two different locations at all, you just write one in!

the city i am writing from hasn't existed for centuries and centuries, but this script doesn't know that...or?

Web Master, what do You think?

:confused:

is it not easy just to register and log on, it is just to remember all the different usernames and email addresses?

[ February 21, 2005, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: nanouk ]

[Isaiah Mpski]

Manning,how could anyone get you and I confused.You are much better looking than I.
And I was born in 47,how about you?

[ February 21, 2005, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Isaiah Mpski ]

[Manning]

Manning,how could anyone get you and I confused.

I figure it all got started when willoweyes deflected attention from my question about fear by suggesting we were one and the same. As for nanouk, she's simply too trusting, and well aware of that it would seem -- so her doubts were triggered.

I can hardly blame her for feeling confused. After all, you're Isaiah... who is also the Messiah ... and you come from a lineage that includes Quanah Parker... who was also Milam M. King ... and we posted at the same time so... HELLO! ... IT ALL FITS!! I guess you were wrong and willoweyes was right! I MUST BE THE MESSIAH!!! Holy shit. Who knew???

The important thing, I figure, is that we remain steadfast in our paranoia until daniel arrives and can clear up all this "who is who" business and toss us accordingly if necessary on account of having multiple identities.

[ February 21, 2005, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[Isaiah Mpski]

Bless you and Nanouk Manning.I love you both.
Mpski.

[silentwolf]

I have quite a few friends in your age group, Isaiah...all of them fought in Korea, and a few of them were in Vietnam. It's interesting that you don't mention any military service.

When the Korean conflict rolled around, the eligible males at the time did what was expected out of them and enlisted. It was something that was taught to them by their male role models who fought in the Second World War.

I had you pegged all wrong, dude. I figured you were in your 30's. I would have never guess that you're 58 years old...an old man, approaching the gateway into the beyond. I neither envy nor pity you for that. In my time, I will approach the same as is right for me.

I don't know how anyone could confuse Manning and Isaiah...your perspectives are so different from one another, and your written voice is the same.

You say you're still a tough man, Isaiah. I agree with you...you're thickened and calloused, and seeking relief from your burdens. We all are in some way. I seek an end to the illusions, I wish to actually know. I wish to be free from this captivity, but the only way to become free from it is by understanding it.

We will all die at some point in time. Most of us wonder if our consciousness will extend beyond the point of physical death, but no one can answer it. I don't know of anyone who can remember what and who they were before they were born, even though some claim to recall past lives. Lives they can recall, yes, but they can't find the point between them. That's what interests me.

[Isaiah Mpski]

Actually wolf,I hope I've died enough deaths for Allah for me to finally inherit my 100 virgins.I've probably gone through at least 97 women so I'm hoping since I'm real faithful I can find two or three good ones more so I can die with a smile on my face and a new lord in my arms.
Pretty much the same thoughts as Abraham I suppose.

[Isaiah Mpski]

Synchronicity at it's finest Manning.It is deeper than you think and probably involves energy from Hunter.

[silentwolf]

Nah, it wasn't a typo. I meant it was also different. Sorry for the confusion.

[Manning]

Ahhh, gotcha. It was like you were saying, "Your perspectives are so different and so are your written voices." Anyway, it was a real good laugh and there's always good medicine in laughter. I hope everyone else got a good belly laugh out of it too. Even willoweyes of the green typing fingers.

And on that note, it's time for me to check out. As it is, I've been neglecting some other important pieces of my life, (and the people therein), in order to be here for the time that I have. Good luck with your shoulder though, and thanks for the info on energy. Meanwhile, some comfrey might help speed the shoulder healing.

Oh, and before I forget... Isaiah, I came across this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1572242825/qid=1109069032/sr=2-2/ref=pd_ka_b_2_2/002-9181963-7959217) the other day and thought you might enjoy it. At the very least, it can't zolt you. I found it most helpful in regard to how trauma alters your perception of yourself and how to deal with anger. Anyway, if it's not helpful to you it's bound to be helpful to someone else.

[ February 21, 2005, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[Isaiah Mpski]

I think your diagnosis of PTSD is appropriate Manning and that I need to be treated for it.After all,waking up 200 days at five in the morning to get pluged into the wall socket was a fairly traumatic event
I also think the terms bi-polar and schizophrenic have been appropriate at times in my life.

However that maybe I see myself kinda like that guru up in Oregon whose followers democraticaly took over the county.
In McIntosh County 800 votes will carry any election.
I lease out parcels of land from my farm to 800 people over this board via the internet.Those 800 people register to vote here.
We elect a Senator and we're off to the races reclaiming this monstrosity of a lake-Lake Eufaula-Oklahoma from the federal government.
Johndson2626@yahoo.com

[skasm]

Ok I'll say it, Manning and Isiaha, have made this board less enjoyable. Just because you have the ability to push a button and chime in doesn't mean you should. You are not adding anything but noise and interruption. What's the point? Why be disruptive?

[willoweyes]

Like an ecosystem, this place serves many purposes--and those purposes are intertwined. You eradicate the annoying mosquito--the next thing you know, the fledglings of an evening swallow are dying of starvation.

Maybe that's a bit too dramatic. Let's look at it like a compost heap. Trust me, it's impossible to add too much manure.

[Manning]

Not to worry skasm -- only about 1 in 5 of my posts ever sticks around for the long haul. This topic was a bit heavy but I suppose it wouldn't have been quite as heavy if willoweyes hadn't stirred the pot with that false accusation. It would seem the discrepancy has been sorted out now though. And I was already on my way out so now that I've done my pruning, I'll just keep on going.

Enjoy your day.

[Agent Smith]

nah, a troll's a troll.

i'm half with you charlie.

i am more worried about the level of discourse on this board descending to well... just about what we're seeing...

still, i'd like to try a different approach to dealing with the situation... namely using what i know to change myself, so that i attract fewer (ok none) of these situations into my life, and the lives of the people i intersect.

that being so this is sort of like an oppertunity to quit adding cognative straws to this camel's back... i am a past master at playing 'bait the troll', i like the different tone, and level of dialog here though... besides, i have a life.

on the subject of censorship, i'll point out that it isn['t censorship to let individuals know that their behavior is uninteresting.

LOL, of course i've been having a marvelous time trying to access this site, the public pay terminal i've been using restricts access under the guise of protecting it's patrons from "Abuse of Drugs" on this site...

[Isaiah Mpski]

Agent Smith,
How many hallucinogenic mushrooms do you think you've eaten so far?
Lets all meet at Psychiatry and It's OK thread under transformations.

[willoweyes]

Manning, excuse me, but don't you think accusing me of making a "false accusation" is a little dramatic? It was a frigging joke. Relax.

For you, I recommend reading Johnathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. Perhaps it will stimulate your atrophied sense of absurdity.

And I don't think investigating our fears is a waste of time. Isn't that what Shamans do?

[forteanajones]

I'm generally not in favor of user banning, and I wouldn't propose we introduce that here. Like everyone else here, I'm also against censorship and in spirit I agree with most of the comments above about that. But I also have to go with Charlie to an extent.

As BOTH approaches the 1000-member mark, it seems pretty clear to me that we could benefit from a little bit of moderation. Specifically: (1) defining our policies and publishing them somewhere visible to all; (2) getting in the habit of warning folks who violate the policies but not always necessarily taking action; (3) actively dealing with thread derailment which seems to have become much more common lately (by possibly *moving* but not removing) and perhaps deleting posts which actually threaten the overall livlihood this forum (I'm talking about extreme cases along the lines of Charlie's examples).

[Isaiah Mpski]

Where are Charlie's examples?

[Gift Horse]

Where are you Daniel?
There are alot of good suggestions here.
We seemed to have lost a prolific contributor.
I hope Manning doesn't stay away.
if you're out there Manning, I really appreciated alot of your input and suggestions of websites and music! smile.gif
At least she had a good belly laugh before she went.

[willoweyes]

I apologize for my "fuckhead" behavior. Thanks to a sad, thwarted childhood haunted by every type of abuse, I tend to react like a barbarian when I feel the least bit threatened. It doesn't take much. I was needlessly rude and I am sorry.

I firmly believe Hunter Thompson's mushrooming spirit cloud (even now spreading his iconoclastic dust over the globe) is partly to blame for this whole thing.

[willoweyes]

Since I am tring to avoid fuckheadhood, I feel compelled to point out that blaming my occasional outbursts of ill-temper upon my childhood was nothing more than a cheap attempt to gain the sympathy of the jury.

[willoweyes]

And Hunter's share of the blame is questionable as well.

[MidnightDreary]

Willoweyes,
Don't be so hard on yourself. I don't think you've displayed any "fuckhead" tendencies in your posts! I always look forward to your honest, poignant, and insightful words.

[Agent Smith]

YAY! barbarians...

...who wants to jump in a longboat, row down the english coast, and split the skulls of some monks trying to perserve knowlege will illuminating texts, with an axe?

LOL...

i have seen other options for regulating communities on other boards, these include, locking down runaway threads, post deletion with moderator explanation (more often with out), bannings, and tagging users with titles (like an icon that reads 'troll' when someone posts.)

i don't necessarily feel that any or all of these would be appropriate for this community, but there are options.

[willoweyes]

Agent Smith has my number--my stock is pure Barbarian--and the sight of a bare tonsured skull, bowed piously, pompously over sacred knowledge--well, it makes my mace lie heavy in my hand.

Midnightdreary--bless you for your kindness!

Isaiah: I'm keeping an open mind. Being in a chatroom has some similarities with driving a car (road rage, anyone?) in that there is the illusion of anonymity--who can see through your tinted windshield? I will say this: Oklahoma has some life left, and so does Quanah Parker.

[Manning]

Gift Horse: We seemed to have lost a prolific contributor.

Be assured Gift Horse, my departure at this time is completely independant of the modest clash with willoweyes. I was on my way out the night before due to other pressing commitments in my life. I participate here only sporadically and may or may not be back dependant on which direction my life takes me. I don't dabble in psychedelics so there may not be anything more here for me. As it is, I tend to think that I've already made my most valid contributions in the topic related to shamanism, schizophrenia, psychosis, and spiritual emergency. If anyone else should find themselves undergoing a similar experience, I hope they'll find some guidance in those links there.

willoweyes, I'm sorry to hear about your background. There's a bit of that in my own background and it's amazing how long a body can carry pain and continue to be shaped by it. The worst thing about personal pain, (or so it seemed to me), was feeling so alone in it. But you never have to go far to find that others have their own personal pain -- usually, just one human being over. I found the following practice to be very helpful for those times when I got stuck in my aloneness, (which I still do from time to time).</font> The Practice of Tonglen (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/4/story_423_1.html)</font> Transforming Confusion into Wisdom (http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/tonglen1.php)</font>As for fuckheaded weirdedness, my own gets manifested in my erasive actions, which probably irritates the hell out of a lot of people. I don't exactly know why I do it, but I do -- most every time. I call it "Nurturing My Inner Dweeb".
Anyway, that's all I have to say. I didn't want the possibility to be lingering that I had left the site as a result of anything willoweyes (or skasm, or anyone else) had said. I'm simply getting busy in a different area of life and don't have time to give here. But I most certainly did have a rip-roaring belly laugh on my last night here.

[ February 25, 2005, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[willoweyes]

In response to a private e-mail, and in my ceaseless attempts (hampered by feminine plumbing) to pee higher up the post than all the other dogs, I return to "Fear and Censorship."

I fear shame, and stubbornly, I continue to fear loss of my wits! Even though I tell myself that there is something tender and beautiful about a return to early childhood, and beyond.

[Gift Horse]

Thanks Manning,

The meditation looks very helpful.
Perhaps you will drop in us from time to time and say hi.

peace to you

[Isaiah Mpski]

Something to ponder.
Lest ye become as a little child,ye shall in no way enter into the kingdom of heaven.Jesus 33AD
That's really hard to do though without some good parents.I think what he meant was that you have to be innocent of any disire to do wrong.

[Agent Smith]

two things that do come to mind as potentially useful for this forum are things i've seen work realativly well on other boards.

the first is the 'off topic' forum. this is a board specially designated for all discussions that simply have nothing to do with the stated topics of the community, and where such threads can be moved to by administrators. community members are allowed to say what they want on these threads with out bothering people on the legitimate threads. community members who won't adhere to this standard on other forums often find their off topic posts deleted, and if they get aggressive about it they find themselves banned.

the other idea is in a similar vein, and that's a forum set aside speifically for 'flaming', or whatever. these forums are usually called something like 'The DMZ' and are under a strict 'enter at you're own risk' policy. the idea is that forum members can take their disputes, rants, and whatever to these forums without worrying about upsetting anyone who didn't agree to be upset.

just a thought.

[Gift Horse]

Yes, these are good ideas.
There have been alot of helpful ideas suggested on this thread.
But I guess it is up to Daniel.

Daniel?

[daniel]

sorry i don't really have the time or psychic energy to follow through on the suggestions right now - i took the main point as being against censorship, or evictions, at least at this point in time.

if somebody else wants to be "knighted" as associate moderator, they can send me an email and i will consider it. Or we can run an on-board election, without resorting to Diebold machines.

[nanouk]

*lol*

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/01/images/20040123-2_mayors2-515h.jpg

i think i know of someone who would love to get his hands on this forum...

[HanShan]

Thats great Nanouk
One picture is worth a thousand words.
Lets keep our minds and eyes open and do the right thing taking care of ourselves and one another

were kinda likea tribe

[*J*]

OK, I'm going to pipe up (so to speak):

1. I don't think a flaming forum belongs here.

2. I do think an 'off-topic' type forum a little more open-ended than 'Cultural Production' does belong here.

3. I have been a bit put off by the way topics get derailed here, which didn't happen so much a few months ago and back. I think that the discussion on this board should remain as focussed as possible. Therefore, I support the idea that a post which is not at least tangential to the subject line should be MOVED to a new topic which has a "2" or whatever at the end of the original subject line. I do not have as much experience with message boards as a lot of people here, but this seems the best tactic to me. Appeals from the posters should be allowed.

4. I would be interested in Daniel's offer of associate moderating, but if there's someone who wants to to do it more, or who is more wanted, I'm happy to concede the honor. I'm going to refrain from e-mailing Daniel until I see what y'all generate.

*J*

[ February 28, 2005, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: *J* ]

[Gift Horse]

Hi J

Wow, thanks for stepping up.
I would like to see some sort of moderating here. I think it would lessen some of the frustration I feel from time to time when threads get hijacked.
I don't feel computer-savvy enough to volunteer my time though, so I don't feel like I have the "right" to complain.(you know, if I'm not willing to do anything about it)
But I will certainly support anyone who wishes to take on the responsibility.

[Charlie]

J:

You've got my vote.

[Thom]

Mine too, for what its worth.

[nanouk]

maybe someone apt at programming and webmastering could take time and help daniel then, who is obviously a busy man, with his literary and cultural commitments (and helping his daughter dress her cinderella barbie) ;)

i dare not even use my ftp right now, let alone download anything, and i am not a webmaster...

perhaps daniel's metacine would be a good place to publish certain offspring of some of the threads here.

i would hate for BOTH to become a censored place to be... :(

love and respect,

[willoweyes]

Does honey truly draw more flies than vinegar? How many of you have taken this on faith, not bothering with empirical evidence? I myself have tested the theory, and discovered that not only does vinegar draw the greater number of flies, but the unfortunate flies which are attracted to honey invariably get their little feet stuck and are drowned slowly and miserably in a sea of treacle.

Remembering what life has taught me, I will speak my mind.

I think we can agree that the main "threats" anyone has endured here are "off topic comments" and a nasty case of frustration. By installing someone to man the gates to our village, we would be doing bad things: we would be wasting the time of the person who volunteered to monitor, and, we would be putting too heavy a burden on that person. Why should we delegate what should be the individual responsibility of each and every one of us; ie to determine what we will and won't read?

As many of you have not doubt noted, the "Survivor" television show mentality has pervaded our culture, or out culture has pervaded the show. Instead of a group which relies upon each member to survive, we have the brutal spectacle of of the tribe solemnly, judiciously deciding which one of their mates they will assassinate each week.

What does this have to do with our site? I am saying that if we threaten people with expulsion for minor infractions (ie being annoying) people who are serious about looking at the world freshly, and coming to their own conclusions, will fade away And you will be left with a safe PC place, but no school for wizards; no jousting ground for shamans.

[forteanajones]

Hold on a second, I'm not sure there is actually a consensus in this thread to "man the gates to our village". I'm pretty certain no one has suggested expulsion for minor infractions such as being annoying.

My reading of the contributions so far in this thread is, rather, that it would be useful to allow a responsible moderator to move posts which have no bearing on a given topic to a more appropriate area, *under the right circumstances*. This practice is quite common on other forums and works very well when handled correctly. In my opinion, "off topic comments" is not really a big deal. It's the hijacking and derailment which has become more of a problem in recent times, wouldn't you agree?

What actually was said about member expulsion (or post deletion) was in the context of being a very last resort in *extreme situations* which threaten the actual continued existence of the BOTH forums (such as child pornography for example).

[ March 01, 2005, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: forteanajones ]

[willoweyes]

I find the "hijacking and derailment" no more than a minor annoyance. Very minor--I can avert my eyes.

We have started this discussion of censorship because of complaints arising from things which have happened at this place--which does not include child pornography. I am adressing my thought to the current situation, not some hypothethical thing which might occur.

Think about the time it would take to screen each post. Do the ends justify the means in our current situation?

The reason I feel so passionately about this subject, is because I see echoes of our nation's mindset here. Protectionism is infectious. and ridiculous.

No time for more--my boss has appeared.

(under the rubric of Esoteric Philosophy--why is that?)

[Thom]

I think what J is suggesting is good. I've been bemused lately by some threads that have very quickly developed a side-growth of malignant posts, the intention of which has invariably been self serving. I'm sure some threads have been sunk by such vampiric attitudes to the board.

I wouldn't be comfortable with such posts being deleted. I think this board is a kind of experiment in a way - an attempt to find the healthy story for our sick times - and so repression would certainly be no help!

But I do think that moving posts which are clearly off-topic and abusive might be a helpful approach. It might even generate interesting erm discussion. Whether this requires the appointment of a secondary moderator though, I'm not sure. Daniel seems to check in every day more or less.

[Gift Horse]

Absolutely not!

I was not agreeing to censorship.

I am in support of Moderating or Fascilitating. A number of members have suggested having an off-topic category where disruptive posts can be guided to.

This discussion was started with concerns that were addressed to Daniel privately. I'm not sure the exact nature of their concerns, but subsequently alot of us have chimed in with our displeasure at some of the posting lately.

I think partly why I am in favor of the idea, is partly due to the fact that we lost a member of this board very tragically. I realise that there is no blame what so ever with the interactions he had here. But I feel very cautious about the power of words.

[Manning]

Passing through with a few comments...

Re: Highjacking and Derailment

Something to consider is the community is somewhat limited by the linear discussion format. Linear discussions are probably the most common form of bulletin board discussion but threaded discussion more easily allows one or two members to take the discussion in a direction they would like it to go. For those who have never seen it, you can find an example of threaded discussion here (http://uss.intrasun.tcnj.edu/discussion_boards/test/). Notice how the main discussion is anchored in place while parallel discussions trail off from the main branch.

In some instances, software allows administrators to choose between linear or threaded discussion. If that's an option here, and the community is open to it, threaded discussion could be turned on and that would pretty much take care of the hijacking and derailment issue.

Should that option not be available, or the community doesn't want the option, bear in mind that new users to the community may be more familiar with a threaded discussion format and may need a gentle nudge in regard to what this community's "norms" are.

And speaking of newbies, something this site does not have that it could probably benefit from is a newbie area/community area where newcomers could learn the ropes or oldtimers can raise concerns related to the community itself, such as discussions like this one.

Such an area would also be an ideal location for a FAQ -- one related to questions about the software itself (i.e., How do I load a picture to my profile? Where is my personal mailbox? What does adding someone to my buddy list do?) and another FAQ related to the community's behavior/relationship guidelines. For example, here (http://www.deoxy.org/shanews.htm) is one shamanistic community's FAQ.

Ideally, guidelines are developed with input from the entire community and not determined solely by administrators and moderators. In turn, this provides guidance to moderators/administrators so they can best serve the community as the community sees fit.

This community might decide that spam won't be tolerated, off-topic discussions should be taken to private mailboxes, and anyone who posts child pornography will be promptly tossed. Other communities develop different standards for themselves. Once the standards are developed and basically agreed upon, posting them in an easily found location will help members (especially newbies) adjust to those standards by knowing what the expectations and violations are. Communities with well-structured guidelines that were developed by the community tend to require very little moderating, but they also allow moderators to step in and take action in extreme situations without having to elicit the support and understanding of the community.

[ March 01, 2005, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[Isaiah Mpski]

The phrase ....have no blame whatsoever... I find terribly selfserving.Something like a doctor might say whose patient just died from the treatment rather than the disease.Something that happens in cancer treatment everyday to alot of people.And the beast-the love of money by the medical and banking and oil establishment- gobbles up more and more everyday.
Just like someone suggested,we are a unique group of people,a microcosm of people who have chosen a path of self-enlightenment and we must remember that and try to bring our collective world to a higher state of being.
It is too bad that Daniel spent his childhood being surrounded by the New Age movement than actually having to deal in it.
My idea of having a centralized land base community built around one of the early prophets of the collective consciousness shines brightly in me.It obviously has to start on the internet.
Can anyone imagine how much could be accomplished by a small band of people say 12 or less.
I don't know how to defeat the beast other than to take the advice of some who came before me.Tune in,turn on,drop out.
My paranoia suggests that many of you have me in mind when it comes to censorship but I've been working on this starship with life,limb, and song for going on 40 years now.
I'm like a turtle with his mouth wrapped around the leg of a frog.I'm not going to let go until I get a bite to eat.So bear with me all.

Old pond,new frog.Old frog,new pond.SPLASH.

Mpski

[squanky]

Don't worry Isaiah, I can bear it.

Hey, and back to the conversation of additional moderaters - I think we should moderate ourselves.

[jezebelle]

I get a kick about all the pages applied to this topic, it must be an easy subject.

"Something that happens in cancer treatment everyday to alot of people. And the beast-the love of money by the medical and banking and oil establishment- gobbles up more and more everyday.

Isaiah: I hear you on that.

And take a bite if you see the beast in me.

hugs, jez2

[Isaiah Mpski]

Dear Jez.
I had rather have conversations like these in my own space in transformations,Psychiatry and it's all Ok,because I tend to get excited and Daniel has set a set number of proclamations that I may dispose.

[Agent Smith]

i MUCH prefer threaded boards, thank you for mentioning that...

personally i can totally sympathize with anyone not having the time or energy to actively moderate a board... that's why i don't have my own.

towards continuing the delightful atmosphere of this board, i guess i'd be in favor of just adding an 'off topic/other topic' forum, and gently admonishing folks to ignore, and starve any behavior they find 'psychicly vampiric'. why add energy to it, or give it any more momentum?

[jezebelle]

my meaning isaiah is: call me down on any of my folly if you see it.
Being the excellent gad-fly that you are
bullshit rador
peace, jez2

[*J*]

So, is the need for me or anybody else to moderate eliminated by the use of a threaded board? Perhaps some of the more experienced messagers amongst us should clarify/debate this point. Anyone have an opinion? (Cause I sure don't.)

*J*

[Humming]

Has there been a change to the format? I just tried to edit my post and it tells me that only moderators/administrators can do this.

That would be a shitty change, if so. In long posts it is often necessary for me to look back and clarify some things.

EDIT: Nevermind, must have been a temporary glitch.

[ March 08, 2005, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: Humming ]

[Agent Smith]

whoops...

...'scuse me, i must have accidentally *BUMP*ed this thread...

...oh well, no harm done.

smile.gif

[Gift Horse]

I-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g...........

Its neat that it was almost exactly a year ago.

Is it some kind of natural cycle?

Something in the stars?

Are we learning our lesson?

[sidecross]

As I wrote on another thread it would have been best to have ‘locked’ the thread than removing it.

I thought the thread a great document of how the best intentions can be the path that can lead off the edge of the cliff.

As someone who believes in history and even the instruction of poor argument, I found the conclusion to totally delete such a long thread or topic not to be in the best interest of BOTH.

[willoweyes]

Comeon, kids, surely someone saved this thread.

send it ailing/sailing back to me.

I am archiving all this shit.

[silentwolf]

lol...I'm going to be posting weekly on www.thc-ministry.net (http://www.thc-ministry.net) exercises and theories, if you're interested, feel free to peruse.

"John" Djang, the Magus of Java, once told one of his students to publish whatever he liked as long as it encouraged people to meditate...fascinating stories about that man, there are many. (and an interesting movie clip of him by the Blair brothers performing pyrogenisis...)

[ February 28, 2006, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: silentwolfxvx ]

[Manning]

Your link didn't work silentwolf. I think the url was merely missing a backslash: http://www.thc-ministry.net/forum/

This place doesn't seem to have been a good fit for you. I hope you find a better fit for yourself there.

[silentwolf]

Thanks on both parts, Manning.

[JohnShirley]

Signal from noise is important -- and yeah, everyone's got to do it themselves. I did reply to your remarks re my post, I didn't just come to plug that appearance, no.

What's your book with Tarcher? Maybe I can look it up on your profile...