View Full Version : “tales of eternity”
07-29-2005, 08:35 PM
The most profound story I’ve ever read comes one from one of Carlos Castaneda’s books, I can’t recall which one, but it was like many of his “tales of eternity” they always hint at more than they actually say .
This one starts with the old shaman Don Juan and his apprentice the anthropology student Carlos observing some desert creatures as they scurried about in the desert chaparral.
Don Juan commented that a man could survive in the dessert by hunting those animals, But first you would need to study them and know their habits.
He explain how they followed a pattern that could be mapped as a circle around a burrow. Once these feeding cycles are learned snares could be set and escape routes could be routed, so the animals own cyclical behavior became its venerability.
But he warned his apprentice, as you follow these behaviors and set your snares every day in the same way, you also make yourself venerable because you too are being observed.
He said there were predators even more attuned to theses circular patterns of the dessert, so some day something could be waiting for you along one of your well worn paths.
He went on to say that there existed in nature an ultimate balance between awareness of these cyclical movements in the world and a spontaneity of action in ones self, an unpredictability that wells up from the spirit.
Once this balance is achieved the hunter becomes a “magical warrior.”
“A magical warrior can never be trapped” don Juan said or “be caught without an escape route,” because he can never be reduced to behaviors .
This “warrior’s path” are no longer connected to cycles of the world, but of the spirit, thus he can always “see” what is coming without being seen himself.
Also, he said there existed in the world animals “magical creatures.” that have achieved this balance.
Don Juan recounted that he himself had achieved this state as a young man and became a magical warrior, and seemed to always know instinctively what to do in any situation, until one day he was hunting on a heavily forested ridge top. He remembered hearing a strange sound that sent shivers though his body.
He knew instinctively that he was to about to have an encounter with a magical creature, and for the first time since he had reached this state he had no clue what to do.
So he did the most illogical thing. He stood on his head and began to cry, after some time he felt something breathing in his ear, he fell over in a sitting position and looked up at the most beautiful deer that he had ever seen, and then it spoke “ Why are you crying ?” the deer inquired “ Because I'm sad ” Don Juan heard himself reply, then he remembered the deer lowered his head and said very clearly “ Don’t be sad ” and ambled away.
After listening to Don Juan’s story, Carlos, being an anthropologist and a man of logic and science, replied that the story was ridicules “deer’s do not talk !” he said “I know I know” the old shaman replied “It was the damnedest thing.”
07-30-2005, 03:57 AM
castenada was a damn liar, and intellectual plagarist.
it would be interesting to know when he wrote that story because it sound suspiciously cribed from the works of tom brown jr. who owes his own writting style to the success of castenada... brown's stuff is verifiable however, you can always just go ask him to show you something... by all accounts he can do what he says...
the vagueness, and hinting in castenada are an age old tactic of con men, of letting your mind fill in the blanks, and make up stories... any carny fortune teller knows this. it's called 'ambigous information' in psychological warfare, and manipulation tactics.
brown talks at great length about the need to avoid easily reconizable patterns for survival.
07-30-2005, 08:24 AM
castenada was a damn liar, and intellectual plagarist.
it would be interesting to know when he wrote that story because it sound suspiciously cribed from the works of tom brown jr.You can’t be serious.
Castaneda is one of the most referenced source authors of the twentieth century.
And his works are the most profoundly original works ever written. his descriptions of the second attention as an awareness of energy as it flows though the universe has helped me open forgotten awareness beyond the merely analytical.
Tell me this, if you do not know when this was written why would on the out set call a very respected author a liar.
It seems you have not read his work to understand the point of the post . Are you one of those people who read one thing have an epiphany and lose the ability to absorb anything else.
[ October 06, 2005, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Metatron ]
07-30-2005, 09:36 AM
Metatron, thank you for your post. If you were more familiar with this board, you would know that for some reason the name "Carlos" provokes a violent (perhaps allergic?) reaction from Agent Smith.
For many of us, Castenada was the writer who broke open our heads. Some of his lines and imagery are sublimely evocative, and he brought to millions a spiritual message they would not have received otherwise.
Don Juan's teachings, emphasizing nature's power, personal responsibility, humor, and impeccable intent, are surely not to be scoffed at. Shakespeare was the world's greatest plagarist, and we are all of us mighty liars. No matter what Carlos was, he gave me a new lens with which to peer at the world, and for that I am grateful.
07-30-2005, 09:37 AM
Thanks for sharing these teachings, Metatron. I think there's much value to be found in Castaneda's writings, regardless of their origin, yet Agent Smith raises a good point about how this important figure did indeed do some unsavory things on his path to fame. Here is one really good talk (http://www.breakingopenthehead.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000003#000000) we had here about Castaneda a while back. I think the topic has come up on BOTH a few times.
07-30-2005, 10:17 AM
check out sustainedaction.com for an extensive list of castaneda's OBVIOUS fabrications. i'll let you unravel the less obvious stuff if you are so inclined.
read the tom brown jr. material though. it's much better.
anyway believe whatever you want. you will anyway.
hey he kind of reminds me of good ol' l. ron. ...and his cult of personality is reminicent of that of st.bruce.
in the interest of sparing you my dreaded 'bore them to death with this shit again' technique, i'll fore go any further st.carlos bashing...
07-30-2005, 12:01 PM
My thanks to you, Forteanajones, for linking us to the past Castenada debate, and my apologies to you, Agent Smith, for snapping like an old vixen.
07-30-2005, 05:36 PM
I see your a poet care to share one.
I have never personally read any of Castenada´s work so will not comment directly upon its content. However, I have heard the rumors churning through the mill. Well as they may be I am inclined to consider more the 'message' than the man. If it works for you well by heck use it, right?
"Follow the message not the man!" Is a refrain I have taken to heart many times in my workings with Shamanic guides and teachers. We are all human and though we may strive to reeach the heavens we ultimately fall to our human wiles at one time or another. Do I disregard all the teachings, experiences and revelations bestowed through these conduits? Or merely accept what works for me (perhaps by putting it to the test).
Herein is the contrast brought up with the comparison to Tom Brown Jr. I have had the good fortune to work with TBJ in his courses and verify that he is definately substanciating his claims.
Does that mean he is infallible, definately not. He wipes just like the rest of us.
The only caution I offer is in how we choose to follow examples. I feel it is best to do so in a guided manner, with a teacher you resonate, or feel comfortable with. This does not neccesarily mean a living breathing teacher, they too cross the void as we discover.
I say this through a sad experience.
Growing up in London I encountered many reasons to walk the path, many came from direct experiences within my family line. However some friends of mine picked up Castenada´s work and decided upon it as a blueprint of sorts.
About that time i journeyed to the US for the first time. While absent for six months, my friends set about a veritable fast track to elevated awareness. The fault being they substituted the Peyote medicine (which I believe was a prime conveyor in Don Juan´s teachings) with Acid. Also missing is a sense of sacredness and appropriate unifying of conscioussness through ceremony.
Needless to say after six months of intense experimentation the results were revelatory and destructive. By the time I returned to England my friends had regressed to monosyllabic simians.
So, cautionary notes on the path.
08-09-2005, 05:23 PM
Thank you for your insightful input HaiG,
I have not read Tom Brown Jr, but to even think that anyone could compare the two is folly, its like saying Shakespeare plagiarized the work of some modern playwright that know one has even herd of.
Its all apples and oranges anyway. I find out now after I’ve have had a chance to look up this Tom Brown, I find that is not even any one of note and has very little to do with the scope of Castaneda’s work, and even if they commented on the same phenomenon of the natural world it is irrelevant, no one has a monopoly on wisdom.
I believe what is important is to understand how this work framed this ancient world view in such a way to make it applicable to modern man. The way Castaneda presents it is to create a dichotomy of two radically different world views.
This is the crux of how he relays these teachings, Though a praxis , a duality of the western view point juxtaposed within the esoteric nature of the Paleolithic shaman. one giving the other context and meaning, creating a point of transference of this ancient wisdom to modern man.
All of us arrive accompanied by a point of darkness, the void whence we came and that we will return. I’ve come to see some humans place this point directly in front of them and draw energy and guidance from it.
The voids darkness perceived without fear becomes a creative source infusing life with a mysterious air, always hinting at something deeper giving dreams meaning, transforming birds into messengers. However this view can only be maintained though a humble child like curiosity of the heart, as well as a sobriety of the mind found in a hunter or scientist.
This balance will at opportune times propel you though the void to experience the “ second attention” However some have placed this point behind them, and attempt to use the point as a depository of bad memories. This results in the perception of a world that is constantly threatened by the void.
Fear then becomes the director that orders the world around us. ..
"Don Jaun’s argument was that most of our energy goes into upholding our
importance. This is most obvious in our endless worry about the presentation
of the self, about whether or not we are admired or liked or acknowledged.
He reasoned that if we were capable of losing some of that importance, two
extraordinary things would happen to us. One, we would free our energy from
trying to maintain the illusory idea of our grandeur, and two ,we would
provide ourselves with enough energy to enter into the second attention to
catch a glimpse of the actual grandeur of the universe".........
To seek freedom is the only driving force I know.
Freedom to fly off into that infinity out there.
Freedom to dissolve; to lift off; to be like the
flame of a candle, which, in spite of being up
against the light of a billion stars, remains
intact, because it never pretended to be more
than what it is: a mere candle."
[ August 09, 2005, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Metatron ]
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