archons etc.

[daniel]

some great posts from interesting websites I just learned about:

http://www.snant.com/fp/archives/running-towards-the-bomb-gnosticism-and-the-end-of-civilization/
http://www.snant.com/fp/archives/running-towards-the-bomb-gnosticism-and-the-end-of-civilization-ii/
http://deconsumption.typepad.com/deconsumption/2004/05/background_for_.html

[silentwolf]

Spectacular writings from all three of those links, Daniel. Thanks for sharing.

The whole gnostic bit about the Archons reminds me of the goal of Sutekh...good old Set, and people always talk bad about him!

That timeline is freaky. Another high probability occurrence in our screwed up world. I feel bad for anyone who isn't hoarding high-quality hemp seeds right about now, because they will be needed.

[Piers]

Here's another good one: www.davesweb.cnchost.com/ (http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/)

The Peak Oil stuff is scary as hell, but there are several perspectives. Strange stuff -- the battle between Mike Ruppert & Dave McGowan.

As for the evil forces, check out "The Advent of Ahriman" @ www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1105/ahriman.htm (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1105/ahriman.htm)

[Humming]

That was a wonderfully useful post. Thanks Daniel.

Gnosticism has been a fundamental ontological force in shaping my perspective about the world. This post is a useful text to work with, so I'll refer to it as I write some thoughts and responses to the "Slow Crash" and the aftermath.

"The ressurection occurs within one’s self while one is alive," this is one of the most useful insights that I have gained from the Gnostic scriptures.

Jesus says in the Gospel of Thomas, "He who does not experience the ressurection during life will not experience the ressurection at death."

Without this realization, I would be lost.

"The point is that the Archons will always manipulate people into believing that they’re not being influenced. They’re masterful propagandists."

This is something that I've said to my parents for a ridiciulously long time now: the reason why the social propaganda is successful in conditioning you is that you've been conditioned to accept it without thinking, without questioning it, and without realizing that it's propaganda.

I've told my mother that her denial of the fact that she's being conditioned is the key factor in the continued success of that conditioning. Hopefully, as I continue to reveal this to her, and she actually considers it, her social conditoning will start to become less and less pervasive and dominant in her lifestyle choices.

Of course, realizing the perpetual conceptual death and ressurection of myself means that I am constantly re-visioning my thoughts and ideas, and more strongly embodying the end of hypocrisy in my life, reducing my consumption and engagement with the petty (yet pretty) illusion-world of the Materia.

"It’s not for us to say that any single individual knowingly participates in this underground railroad; as soon as its given a permanent structure, it can be co-opted by the Rulers. For this reason, the individuals who, whether knowingly or unknowingly, work on behalf of the Logos/Sophia, are “invisible.” This isn’t to say that they can’t be identified per se, just that their actions tend to be overlooked by the Rulers who can’t function very well beyond the level of images."

Timothy Leary wrote about this in "The Politics of Ecstacy" how an informed and Logos-attuned underground has always, and will always exists despite the best control mechanisms of the Archons, world leaders.

This is because true freedom and love are forces that are inherently, by their very nature, impossible to impose control or restriction on because they dissolve boundaries by realizing the holistic quality of existence.

"The Kingdom [of Heaven] refers to a society devoid of control for the sake of power. It refers to a society based on, above all, compassion for individuals, respect, and yes, love for one another as individuals, as opposed to compassion and respect and love for one another as abstract objects. This doesn’t mean that compassion and respect would be enforced, as they are in the systems of the Archons; rather, they would occur naturally, freed from the layers of doubt, loathing and selfishness placed upon each of us by the Archons."

"There is no question that the best possible society, in terms of the IGU, would be a sort of romantic anarchism. Starry-eyed idealism? You bet your ass. But somebody’s got to do it, and it’s certainly no more idealistic than a fair and functional consumerist society."

I was thinking about this just yesterday, how ignorant people conceive of progressive social movements as being naively idealistic and deluded, requiring an irrational and impossible sort of faith, yet can have full faith that capitalism is a fair and honest system.....

A technologically networked, compassion-based anarchy is no doubt the next evolution of human social organization, an "archaic revival" to use McKenna's term, of the pre-egoic form of social organization.

"What we could do in a society based on individual freedom and compassion is to divorce these technologies from the exploitative and disturbing systems in which they’re bartered as consumer goods and reestablish them in a more tribal, naturalistic, sustainable setting."

"The Archons themselves won’t go out with a bang or suffer an eternity in hell. They’ll simply fade away like the illusions they are."

Outdated, regressive forms of memetic evolution are replaced by newer and more realized forms.

One thing that the author doesn't stress as much as he could have, is to take this out of the dualistic perspective by realizing that the regressive, constrictive Archonic modalities are a *necessary* and integral part in the establishment of a new society; these structures of control are necessary for us to build and catalyse the energy to overcome them, to create a world beyond the current paradigm (which will not be an easy task, at least at first).

Those are my thoughts. What do other people have to say?

[ April 07, 2005, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Humming ]

[Agent Smith]

"Archons etc." could be the lastest mall store...

[whitewave]

Humming writes: "Of course, realizing the perpetual conceptual death and ressurection of myself means that I am constantly re-visioning my thoughts and ideas, and more strongly embodying the end of hypocrisy in my life, reducing my consumption and engagement with the petty (yet pretty) illusion-world of the Materia."

This passage really resonates for me, Maria. What I would like to ask, is do these deaths come easily to you? Have you learned to let go and enter into them without fear? I ask, because that is my problem. I get so mired down in anger and fear when I begin to die that I become lost in it. For example, right now I feel like my body is a battlefield between Logos and archons. The archons are trying to control me so that I will not let go into further truth. REading these links has helped me see this--and this is not the first time I've looked at these deaths this way. I just forget over and over again as I become lost in the despair that accompanies them. I almost want to tune out everything--to have know new images coming into my mind except those I generate. I think I tend to sink into despair when I begin to be bombarded with materialistic interpretations, like John Jay Harper saying he is 100% sure there will be an east coast tsunami, but if I cut off all media contact, I will not have contact here, and right now this is the only human contact I have with anyone that understands remotely the world that I exist in. I'm beginning to think I'm addicted to the board. I definitely feel obsessive in all I do.....if only I could live in the day to day. I have a feeling that is the only answer if I want to let go gracefully.

[Van Gogh]

My love,may I introduce you to John Donne.

Your hero

[Agent Smith]

i've said it before, and i'll say it again, Lovecraft was right, he just had the scale wrong...

...until just now however i hadn't added, 2 plus 91... and seen the obvious archon themes in Lovecraft...

also i would venture to say that the archons of any age won't fade, or implode... they'll be archived in the memic dna, and cannibalized for later reference by newer, sleeker, hungier memes...

what, you don't think 'universal love', 'peace on earth', and 'boudless compassion' don't have appitites?

...oh but look at me prattling on... la ti da...

[ April 07, 2005, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Agent Smith ]

[willoweyes]

Whitewave, I am addicted to this board also. It is slightly embarrassing to admit, but this place has become the linchpin of my life. First thing in the morning, when I get to work, I see what has been posted in my absence. (Thank God for the Internet! This job would be a drag without it!). My boss is getting annoyed and suspicious, as the filing mounts higher. I have become adept at switching screens. I don't keep count, but I'm sure I check the board twenty times a day.

Why is this? I think interaction, stimulation, and creation about sums it up. I can't get those three things in one place, anywhere else.

Do I worry about it? The worst that could happen: my boss could fire me, which is unlikely since he is also my husband. But if he threatens, I say like Brer Rabbit, "Oh, please don't throw me in that briar patch!"

One of my strongest, and also homliest, spiritual revelations is: I do not control this river, I do not control this sea. It is liberating to let go. I trust strongly in free will, which is the doctrine that gives my existence meaning. Free will for me means I have control over what I do, not what I feel, or what others do. Much less the Universe, or a big rock in the Atlantic.

Your passions are rocking you, Whitewave. I wouldn't be so bold as to offer my perspective, except that I feel you ask. You can't stop the rocking, but you can control what you do. Manning's recent post on spiritual awakening from Australia had some practical helpful hints. Take care of yourself--love your body like we all wish the Republicans could love the earth. I think of my body as a little peace of the earth I have some control over, and I try to be a tender husbandman!

[Manning]

whitewave: I get so mired down in anger and fear when I begin to die that I become lost in it.

Despair, anger, fear... those can all be elements. I don't know that the idea is to get through them gracefully as much as it is to get through them.

[ April 08, 2005, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[whitewave]

Thank you for your kind words, Willoweyes. And Manning, also for the continual support of everyone here...

interesting you mention that one should try to take care of one's body when in crisis. In my opinion, addiction rises from wanting to leave one's body--when being in one's body is too painful, or too much to comprehend--one can leave it by giving into whatever addictive impulse one chooses--alcohol, pot, sex, food--to me, they are all manifestations of the same quandary, what we label a "disease." I don't see it as a disease in the medical sense, but as a spiritual condition that harkens back to the root of the word "dis-ease," meaning not at ease, not comfortable with one's self--on earth, our souls are embodied. Going back to the original post in this thread--it makes sense to conclude that the body would become a battlefield for the archons and that addiction is one of the ways that they try to keep us from knowing the freedom that our souls offer us.

[daniel]

Gurdjieff noted that if you want to make progress on the spiritual path, you have to make sacrifices, and the first thing you have to sacrifice is your suffering.

I suppose I would add that for me, it is not that one stops experiencing suffering, it is just that one is detached from the suffering, because you maintain the perspective that the relative and finite ego is suffering, as it has to do, in order to bring down and incarnate the higher self - and I believe that once the self is fully brought down, there won't be any suffering at all. The necessity for it will have passed. Sri Aurobindo writes about this - that we find it almost impossible to imagine a future "gnostic consciousness" that is without limitations or ignorance, and we even think that such a state would be dull. But in fact, it would not be dull at all. It would be incredibly wonderful - we would have cleared all of our energy to focus on service to the will of the Divine.

Another model of this is the myth of the Fisher King, whose wound only heals when Parcifal (an innocent, child-like aspect of the personality) asks the question, "Who does the Grail serve?" And receives the answer, "The Grail serves the Grail King." The Grail King is not the wounded individual ego but the divinity. Once we comprehend that, suffering begins to abate.

[Charlie]

Hi, Whitewave:

Stated succinctly, I give some credence to one or two “doomsday” philosphies. Like you, I live less than a mile from the coast, at sea level. After the asian tsunami, the local papers here screamed the headline “THIRTY MINUTES.” That’s the amount of warning time we have if a tsunami hits anywhere near us.

Normally I don’t like to plants fears into anyone, but felt it was important enough to discuss with my wife. I discussed some scenarios with her, along with emergency contingency plans for ourselves and our children should any of it come to pass.

Instead of making her afraid, she laughed at me.

She said, “Hasn’t it been our goal to raise our children so that their minds are free, and that they live without fear? Haven’t we been working with plant medicines to keep in tune with the vibrations of the earth and what is in our hearts? If any great catastrophe happens, how could we possibly escape it? Don’t you think that in the case of an emergency, we would meet it head-on and know instinctively how to act? And if we were to die, don’t you believe our energy lives on, and is recycled back into living existence, in one form or another?”

I felt sort of ashamed after hearing that, because of course, she was absolutely right.

It is spring; our fruit trees are blooming, the cats and dogs are in heat, there are baby sheep and goats in the fields and mountains. The timeless wheel of nature turns as always; it is our decision whether to turn with it, or knash our teeth in despair. I could write more, but have to go out to my huerto, and plant vegetables.

[tana]

Charlie...give your wife a high-five for me.

[Humming]

How is it possible to live without fear?

If we accept the intransient nature of human experience and realize a totality of being.

For me, when I am the most conscious fear simply ceases to be; what remains is a connection and realization of unity, as Charlie's wife said.

What is there to fear? What needs to be protected? If you surrender the singularity of your personality there can be no loss because there is nothing to lose, the wholeness of reality cannot be divided.

Shamans laugh at death, having felt the dissolution and unification of experience. This world is a series of veils through which a scene is visible and being played out. Death is a transitioning between scenes. If pain is a physical illusion, like death itself, then what is there to fear?

Of course, as a partially realized being I still experience fear from time to time, but I recognize it as part of an ego-game that is only possible because I am not conscious of myself.

[Agent Smith]

...i have actually wondered about 'fear'...

what is it exactly?

i've heard alot of yoganandapanda snewage snag chowderheads say that the only two forces in the universe are 'love, and fear'...which means of course that anything they do comes from 'love', and anything they disagee with is based in 'fear'...

...does the 'lefthand path' constitute 'enlightenment through fear'? from what i've brieftly skimmed it seems more based on 'desire' than 'fear'... a sort of enlightened ego gratification, as a means of diffusing the ego...

,,.i seem to recall that alot of mystery schools, particularly Pan related ones, and also Dionysis related ones, would use fear/'pan'ic coupled with ecstasy to achive trancendence...

also achiving a state of 'fearlessness', and facing fear/terror is a necessary part of the Warrior's path, of practical necessity, but also part of using that method for achiving enlightenment...(what kind of idiot deliberately seeks out certain death?)

but using 'fear' itself as a form of liberation?

pain is a common practice...

hmmmm.

[forteanajones]

I do not know what fear itself is. Within a Bön or Dzogchen context (which I am still new to), the big polarities are referred to as grasping and aversion. Within a Baha'i context (with which I am now re-aquainting myself after growing up in and later apart from it), they are simply good and evil, with evil being the absence of good (like a shadow is the absence of light). I'm no expert on these systems of thought but that is my understanding.

My early studies with Bön are showing me that the pain and confusion we experience through grasping and aversion (and indifference) can actually be alleviated and transformed by allowing the energy of the five elements to flow freely and transform naturally into their non-dual states. This is taught in the basic daily as well as in the more advanced practices.

I can see where the fear states can be used (either deliberately or not) to help guide or reinforce the kind of training you described. As to the more intense analysis on what fear actually is according to this tradition (and what it is in my native tradition) I'd need to research that further and would defer to the other Bön experts here. (And Baha'i, if there are any, which I doubt).

[ April 11, 2005, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: forteanajones ]

[silentwolf]

Fear is the lack of proper communication.

[Humming]

I think that perhaps fear was a useful and worthwhile emotion for human survival circa 1,000+ years ago, but now we're in a place where fear is just holding us back from the ability to actualize change.

[Agent Smith]

...Fear deffinitly doesn't feel like an 'absence' of anything to me... i am not intellectualizing it. when i FEEL Fear, it doesn't seem to me to be an absence. it deffinitly feels like it's own thing.

...and i do know that it has it's own biochemical make up...

...if we humans evolved with it, and it's still here, maybe it still serves a useful function. maybe it's lesson is for us to learn to use it where appropriet....

...the taoists say that everything in excess is harmful. even love. maybe everything in it's place is a tool.

[tana]

It seems to me that there are two types of fear...rational (or instictive) and irrational (spiritual/psychological). Rational fear serves as a tool...an instinctive alarm. I think irrational fear is maybe, a loss of any sense of unity...an exaggerated sense of individualism that leads to some sort of separation from "the source".

[Agent Smith]

...the kabalistic term "qliphoth' (i think) probably covers it nicely...

was just reminded of that by something i'm just about to post on...

[tana]

Well, don't keep me in suspense...what does "qliphoth" mean? Oh, okay...i'll just go look it up. smile.gif

[ April 12, 2005, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: tana ]

[Lowlight]

Daniel, just to go back a little to what you said about suffering being eliminated once the higher self manifests. I guess i have come to see it as the opposite in that i think our ability to suffer will actually increase once we 'move up a level', but maybe our perspective on suffering will change to the point where we actually love the chance it offers us. I guess we may be on about different types of suffering here because i would hope that such things as world hunger and global injustice are sufferings that are eliminated through the change, but other suffering like that of the strain to achieve something beautiful in art for instance, would not be eliminated. that kind of suffering is essential to 'being' (i think).

peace

Lowlight

[Agent Smith]

tana-'qlippoth' is the reverse of the kabalistic tree of life... i think... the 'dark side'.

grant morrison talks about working with it within the golden dawn context, a kind of 'crossing the abyss', as a method of transformation...