David Icke on Ahayuasca

[Helter Skelter]

Interview with conspiracy theorist David Icke (http://rense1.soundwaves2000.com:8080/ramgen/sw_archives/rense/rense12-03-03.mp3), where he talks about his life-changing shamanic experience with ahayuasca in Brazil.

For those who don't know anything about Icke check out his website at DavidIcke.com (http://www.davidicke.com); he basically believes that reptilian aliens are engineering a global conspiracy to bring about a fascist one world government.

[Woodpecker]

Just because someone says weird stuff, it doesn't make him a great guy. There are articles posted on his website "exposing the Greens' plans for world domination," as well as some classic anti-semitic horseshit, like the following, purportedly written by a Jew:

Hidden Mysteries Books
Jews Must Live!
Beyond the Facts
by Samuel Roth

This Jewish author reveals a startling, inside "Account of the Persecution of the World by Israel on All the Frontiers of Civilization"

Excerpt:

Page 45-46:

Most desirable for the young Jew, he is told impressively, is it, for him to become a member of one of the professions - to become a doctor, a lawyers, an engineer, even a salesman or an agent. To be compelled to go to work, to do manual labor for one's livelihood, is the very worse state the young Jew can fall to, something to make him feel really ashamed and humiliated.

This attitude of the Jews towards manual labor is historic. The Jewish apologists have a neat explanation for it. In most of the countries of the Diaspora the Jews were not permitted to own land or to work on it. Nor were they permitted to work for Christians. And since Jewish merchants could give employment only to a fraction of the great number of young Jews, the rest had to turn for careers to salesmanship, money-lending and the other promoting aspects of trade. This does not explain why Jews have never, like other peoples, gone into a wilderness and built up a land of their own. Nor why in England, in the thirteenth century, under Edward I, they did not take advantage of the offer by which Edward promised to give them the very opportunities Jews had been crying for centuries.

After imprisoning the whole Jewish population in his domain for criminal usury and debasing the coin of the realm, Edward, before releasing them, put into effect two new sets of laws: the first made it illegal for a Jew in England to lend money at interest,. The second repealed all the standing laws which kept Jews from the normal pursuits of the kingdom. Under these new statutes Jews could even lease land for a period of fifteen years and work it. Edward advanced this as a test of the Jew's sincerity when he claimed that all he wanted was an opportunity to work like other people. If they proved their fitness to live like other people, the inference was that Edward would let them buy land outright and admit them to the higher privileges of citizenship. Did the Jews take advantage of Edward's decree? This way. To get around the laws against usury the invented such new methods of skinning the peasants and the nobles that the outcry against them became greater than ever, and Edward had to expel them to avert a civil war. It is not recorded that one Jew took advantage of the new right to till the soil.

Other quotes:

"Jewish history has been tragic to the Jews and no less tragic to neighboring nations. Our major vice is parasitism. We are a people of vultures, living on the labor and the good nature of the rest of the world...

"The first of all Jewish creeds is that Jews must live. It does not matter how, by what, or to what end. Jews must live. So a return was made to the ancient policy of conquest by the more peaceful and deliberate means of cheating, lying, and pimping...

"Anti-semitism is not, as Jews have tried to make the world believe, an active prejudice. It is deeply hidden instinct with which every man is born...that instinct is self-preservation...

"Wherever Jews have been admitted...one by one the industries of the country close to them because of their unfair practices...There is not a single instance where the Jews have not fully deserved the bitter fruit of the fury of their persecutors. 'We come to the nations pretending to escape persecution, yet we are the most deadly persecutors in all the wretched annals of man..."

"We despised the goy and we hated his religion...they were called 'yoisel' and a dozen other names too foul to mention. The 'yoisel' had one time been a human being and a Jew, but one day he went out of his mind and in that pitiful state told people he was God Himself. This extraordinary caricature of the founder of the opposing religion made for me one of the queerest adventures of my life...

"The young Jew learns that before anything else, he is a Jew, and that before anything else, comes his allegiance to the Jewish people. He may be a good American, if it is good for business to be a good American...but no obligation is considered valid if it violates the interests of his most important obligation...

163 pages
5 3/4" by 8 1/2", soft back.
Weight: 14 oz.
Price $7.95 & shipping

[Helter Skelter]

David Icke actually used to be a member of the Green Party, and he believes in environmentalism - actually judging by that interview I linked to, he seems to believe global warming is a method of 'terraforming' the earth to make it a more pleasant habitat for reptilians. So despite the stuff criticizing the Greens, Icke is not against environmentalism, he just thinks the Green Party was subverted by the establishment. As far as that 'anti-Semitic' book goes, I'm not sure where you saw that but Icke seems to have a deal with this book company HiddenMysteries.com where their books are randomly advertised on his site. If you visit the site you will see that they have a wide range of books, most of which have nothing to do with Jews. Icke has been accused of anti-Semitism but he has totally debunked these charges. He's 'anti-reptilian', not anti-Semitic!

[Woodpecker]

I'm not impressed. He can go to hell.

[daniel]

Icke is junk.

[gone]

From my boyhood memories in England he did used to do a good job of reading the sports headlines on breakfast TV.

[Helter Skelter]

Don't get me wrong, I don't share Icke's more off-the-wall beliefs, but I don't really understand all the hostility towards him.

[Anita]

To me,Icke seems like a very hostile person.
I did not like his writings.
Love,
A

[daniel]

Hi Helter,

The hostility is because mediocre parsings of this complicated realm - of supersensible entities, shamanism, etc. - cause quite a lot of damage. The mass consciousness gloms onto them, the media uses people like Icke to dismiss the whole area, etc.

We need our best minds on this stuff, not the Ickes.

[Agent Smith]

I found the articles accusing the Greens of being ZOG/NWO on Icke's site a few weeks ago. I thought these to be distrubing, and infuriating at first. Then I checked into who had writen them, there was a helpfully provided link at the bottom. Turns out that they were writen by a public relations agency (you can go to Icke's site if you're interested and find them yourself) who are obviously using standard anti-environmentalist propaganda, and tailoring it to Icke's conspiracy crowd. A further search on the 'person' who posted it on his site revealed that this being is engaged in a smear campgain against environmentalism, and is either a maniacally obessed schizophrenic, or a public relations employee trying to bring down the level of discourse on both the Greens, and 'conspiracy-ology'. (there were numberous posts by this person personally denouncing Green party members from columbus ohio on several 'chem-trails' news groups.) so in the end I was able to laugh it off. Actually it's one of the most cut and dried cases of PR being used to smear something I have ever run across, and I wondered why Icke allowed it on his site in the first place. In the end I just chalked it up to 'things meant to frustrate, annoy, and distract', and let it go until I saw this post. Very Amusing.

As for Icke himself. I remember 10 (or so) ago when his 'reptilian' rantings were the latest, greatest in the conspiracy sub-culture. Now they do seem a little silly, and simplistic. I think that poor David suffers from a common affliction amonst this crowd which is called 'believing your own hype.' it's an odd universe we live in, strange, wonderful, and not always too safe. I think that the Icke's might have useful purpose if they turn some folks on to the 'pay no attention to that man behind the curtin' aspect of what's going on, and then these people decide to look deeper, and come up with more sensible answers (even if these only make sense to them.) At the same time I wonder if 'THEY' aren't pulling our collective legs some times. (or if in the case of those recent hideous 'matrix' movies giving us the finger.) I mean his name is an obivous pun.

As far as putting our best minds on this stuff I have to concur. Look at the current muck that passes itself off as shamanism thanks to the brave explotation of carlos castaneda. Every stoner I've ever met (and myself while I was caught in that loop) claims to be having Visions. It'll take decades to clear that stink.

[Woodpecker]

Helter Skelter, since you asked, I'll tell you about the major problem that I, personally, have with Icke. In a word, it's the anti-semitism. I navigate through lots and lots of websites that don't promote hatred of me and my family. The fact that he didn't personally write it is beside the point. The point is that it's there.

For the sake of the illustration I want to make, let's pretend your name is Chris Miller. Now, one day you go into a New Age store called Dave's Wisdom. You are looking at the pretty crystals, smelling the fragrant incense, browsing through books on the Mysteries of Isis, when something catches your eye.

It's a poster on the wall advertising a new book, THE TRUTH ABOUT ME, By Chris Miller. There's a little excerpt from the book on the poster, along with a smiling photo of you. "Gee," you think, "I didn't write that." You read what it says.

"Hi everybody," it says, "this is Chris. I want to tell you all that any negative impressions anyone might ever have ever had about me are absolutely accurate. I am a despicable human being. My parents, my siblings, my significant other, and any offspring we might have only one thought in our minds: to harm you in any way possible. In fact, we are genetically predisposed to dishonesty, and we intend to uphold this, advancing ourselves by hurting you."

Well, what would you think, Chris? The smiling, white-haired guy behind the counter didn't write that. But mightn't it give you an unpleasant sensation about his establishment, and, by extension, him? He's promoting people who are telling lies about you which might end up harming you or your family, and he's probably even profiting from it.

The Jewish side of my family emigrated to the USA about a hundred years ago to escape persecution in Russia and Poland--a situation where any time a group of armed men took it into their heads to go kill some Jews, they enjoyed "freedom of expression" to do it. That's called a pogrom, and it happened probably thousands of times in Eastern Europe over the last few hundred years.

The only thing that stopped pogroms was the Holocaust, when the Nazis killed so many Jews that it became nearly impossible to persecute them because almost all of them were dead.

So no, I'm not amused by people spreading hatred of Jews.

No offense taken from you, Helter, and none intended toward you either. I'm posting this simply to point out that Icke's idiocy on this particular subject, too, is not as innocent as it may seem.

[jezebelle]

"Anti-semitism is not, as Jews have tried to make the world believe, an active prejudice
It is deeply hidden instinct with which every man is born...that instinct is self-preservation...

such a bunch of bull, to link it with self-preservation

anti-semitism or any "ism" is sooo "me verses you-ism"

very reptilian, brain activity
really boring

explotation of carlos castaneda

what matters is the shift therein, as opposed to the catalyst agent

[Buzz]

It's always surprising to me when so-called self-realized conspiracy nuts are found to be Republican party Christians. That always diminishes their credibility to me.

Agent Smith,
I'll bet we could trace you to that anti-Carlos site.

[Agent Smith]

LOL...trace me anywhere you want, just don't call me late for supper. ;)

...believe me or don't when I tell you I'm not from anyone's site, with an agenda. just posting here under my own steam for my own amusement, and education... besides, if you found out the 'truth'about who I am, it's probably stranger than anything you could dream up anyway. in my crowd we like to say 'truth outpaces fiction every time'. not that I'm anything special or important.

as for Icke's anti-semetism, I didn't look at those particular articles, but if he's going to allow such silliness about the Greens on his site (I was a bit absorbed in tracking down that bit while I still cared) I wouldn't doubt that he would allow some one to post obviously idiotic 'protocals of the elders of zion' type trash (which is how the Greens info read, just replace 'jew' with 'green party'). Didn't see, don't doubt, no worth my time to check... I'm a busy guy.

I will say this for castaneda, if he does have value, it can be much like what I said about Icke above, to stimulate genuine interest in legitimate sources of useful information in the discerning, and serious.

[searcher]

I am a newbie to the forum but I can't let Icke go without some comment. In a word (weird) and bizzare. I don't think he has much to add thatI am willing to pay any attention to. I just seem to feel that he is full of complete and unadulterated shite! If that offends anyone then I apologize in advance. I am a newbie. But Ikce is full of shite as far as I am concerned. He is somewhat interesting if he is on the late night radio but, well, I think he is full of shite!

[hannes]

Hello,
i have link about this matter.

Silvia Polivoy was a woman i met at the boom festival 2002 and she had there a lecture about ayahuasca. On there Website i found the announcment of David Icke.
This was astonisihing for me since he described in his book mushroom were somehow related to this dark brotherhood. I asked Silvia who this fits together but i did´nt got a real answer, more of like everybody these everthing differnt, true anyway. By accident i found:

http://www.davidicke.net/newsroom/america/brazil/050602a.html

Also Strassman appears here!

From my point of view Icke is´nt such a bad guy, but for me he appear like somebody who i stucked in very rational mind with has been touched by some mystical insights. He wrote that he has kundalini and so.Probably because of the lack of multidemnsional evrything relativating psychedelic expereience he is confusing things.Before i had such experience i was also more one-dimensional(i hear some loud devils laughing inside of me) ;) Especially when he found archetypical symbolism he explains the overall parallelity with some centralized force who has used that symbols. This i think is an lack of understanding life creating principles. So sometimes he come with some really crude explanations never realized the big fractal. But i think he has´nt such an bad intend. And at some brighter points he also seems more relativ. That all those things are something self invited.
The link in the first posting dosnt work here.
I was corious what he now,after ayahuasca, may say. The newest book annoucment hes says that it has been revealed to him that "Infinite love is the only truth. Everything else is illusion."
Not bad revelations?
Of course these book from him could be confusing for the unexperienced.

Everybody has to go it´s way through insanity!
Cheers

[ January 20, 2004, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: hannes ]

[jtreg]

Yeah I was listening to "The James Whale Show" on Talk Sport radio (in UK and web) the other evening and smiled to myself thinking he would get a thread or two going in Daniel's forums... David Icke has pinched a lot of the drivel promulgated by the Theosophical Society in their early days regarding the meme of hollow earth and a race of beings living there.

The trouble with Icke is, some of his stuff sounds plausible but in our longing to make sense of things around us we grab on to every thing we hear or read (I am guilty of this too!) ... however, if there are people prepared to air ideas - wich include use of hallucinogenic drugs to benefit others/themselves we must be prepared to allow freedom of speech to include some other less savoury topics. If he is anti semitic then, he will lose his audience, certainly with me. I still need to be convinced of his moral shortcomings.

I like the freedom (?) we still enjoy to hear prats on the radio/books - lets just laugh and move on, eh?

I dont think we are in danger of D.I. conducting a world movement aginst jews. I will say I found the local gathering supporting Palestinians went sour when they started anti-jewish crap. I left. I do not want to help them now!

Lets focus on the benefits on inner exploration, chaps...

[jtreg]

Yeah I was listening to "The James Whale Show" on Talk Sport radio (in UK and web) the other evening and smiled to myself thinking he would get a thread or two going in Daniel's forums... David Icke has pinched a lot of the drivel promulgated by the Theosophical Society in their early days regarding the meme of hollow earth and a race of beings living there.

The trouble with Icke is, some of his stuff sounds plausible but in our longing to make sense of things around us we grab on to every thing we hear or read (I am guilty of this too!) ... however, if there are people prepared to air ideas - wich include use of hallucinogenic drugs to benefit others/themselves we must be prepared to allow freedom of speech to include some other less savoury topics. If he is anti semitic then, he will lose his audience, certainly with me. I still need to be convinced of his moral shortcomings.

I like the freedom (?) we still enjoy to hear prats on the radio/books - lets just laugh and move on, eh?

I dont think we are in danger of D.I. conducting a world movement aginst jews. I will say I found the local gathering supporting Palestinians went sour when they started anti-jewish crap. I left. I do not want to help them now!

Lets focus on the benefits on inner exploration, chaps...