Mind Freedom and the Rise of the Corporate Biomedical Model

[forteanajones]

I heard NPR's Against the Grain (http://www.againstthegrain.org) speak with David Oaks today, director of an organization called Mind Freedom International (web site (http://mindfreedom.org)). You can download the free mp3 here (http://www.againstthegrain.org/audio5.09.05.mp3).

The gist of it is (surprise surprise) Mental Health is also globalizing, one clear sign being that the WHO has declared a "Global Emergency" of human rights violations in the mental health system, and another being Bush's push for universal mental health screening. I may have gotten this one wrong, but one factoid mentioned was that forced medication is now legal in 42 States. "First they come for us," he said. His goal is to democratize the mental health system, which is apparently one of the most profitable industries if not the most profitable, in terms of ratio of investment-to-profit.

Oaks urged listeners to go out and grab a copy of the May/June Mother Jones to read Rob Waters' article. Looks like the article is online and I'll paste it below. He also advised people to write your own "advanced directive", and to research the role of psychiatry in the Holocaust.
Medicating Aliah (http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/05/medicating_aliah.html)
News: When state mental health officials fall under the influence of Big Pharma, the burden falls on captive patients. Like this 13-year-old girl.
By Rob Waters
May/June 2005 Issue

ALIAH GLEASON IS A BIG, lively girl with a round face, a quick wit, and a sharp tongue. She's 13 and in eighth grade at Dessau Middle School in Pflugerville, Texas, an Austin suburb, but could pass for several years older. She is the second of four daughters of Calvin and Anaka Gleason, an African American couple who run a struggling business taking people on casino bus trips.

In the early part of seventh grade, Aliah was a B and C student who "got in trouble for running my mouth." Sometimes her antics went overboard—like the time she barked at a teacher she thought was ugly. "I was calling this teacher a man because she had a mustache," Aliah recalled over breakfast with her parents at an Austin restaurant.

School officials considered Aliah disruptive, deemed her to have an "oppositional disorder," and placed her in a special education track. Her parents viewed her as a spirited child who was bright but had a tendency to argue and clown. Then one day, psychologists from the University of Texas (UT) visited the school to conduct a mental health screening for sixth- and seventh-grade girls, and Aliah's life took a dramatic turn.

A few weeks later, the Gleasons got a "Dear parents" form letter from the head of the screening program. "You will be glad to know your daughter did not report experiencing a significant level of distress," it said. Not long after, they got a very different phone call from a UT psychologist, who told them Aliah had scored high on a suicide rating and needed further evaluation. The Gleasons reluctantly agreed to have Aliah see a UT consulting psychiatrist. She concluded Aliah was suicidal but did not hospitalize her, referring her instead to an emergency clinic for further evaluation. Six weeks later, in January 2004, a child-protection worker went to Aliah's school, interviewed her, then summoned Calvin Gleason to the school and told him to take Aliah to Austin State Hospital, a state mental facility. He refused, and after a heated conversation, she placed Aliah in emergency custody and had a police officer drive her to the hospital.

The Gleasons would not be allowed to see or even speak to their daughter for the next five months, and Aliah would spend a total of nine months in a state psychiatric hospital and residential treatment facilities. While in the hospital, she was placed in restraints more than 26 times and medicated—against her will and without her parents' consent—with at least 12 different psychiatric drugs, many of them simultaneously.

On her second day at the state hospital, Aliah says she was told to take a pill to "help my mood swings." She refused and hid under her bed. She says staff members pulled her out by her legs, then told her if she took her medication, she'd be able to go home sooner. She took it. On another occasion, she "cheeked" a pill and later tossed it into the garbage. She says that after staff members found it, five of them came to her room, one holding a needle. "I started struggling, and they held my head down and shot me in the butt," she says. "Then they left and I lay in my bed crying."

What, if anything, was wrong with Aliah remains cloudy. Court documents and medical records indicate that she would say she was suicidal or that her father beat her, and then she would recant. (Her attorney attributes such statements to the high dosages of psychotropic drugs she was forcibly put on.) Her clinical diagnosis was just as changeable. During two months at Austin State Hospital, Aliah was diagnosed with "depressive disorder not otherwise specified," "mood disorder not otherwise specified with psychotic features," and "major depression with psychotic features." In addition to the antidepressants Zoloft, Celexa, Lexapro, and Desyrel, as well as Ativan, an antianxiety drug, Aliah was given two newer drugs known as "atypical antipsychotics"—Geodon and Abilify—plus an older antipsychotic, Haldol. She was also given the anticonvulsants Trileptal and Depakote—though she was not suffering from a seizure disorder—and Cogentin, an anti-Parkinson's drug also used to control the side effects of antipsychotic drugs. At the time of her transfer to a residential facility, she was on five different medications, and once there, she was put on still another atypical—Risperdal.

The case of Aliah Gleason raises troubling—and long-standing—questions about the coercive uses of psychiatric medications in Texas and elsewhere. But especially because Aliah lives in Texas, and because her commitment was involuntary, she became vulnerable to an even further hazard: aggressive drug regimens that feature new and controversial drugs—regimens that are promoted by drug companies, mandated by state governments, and imposed on captive patient populations with no say over what's prescribed to them.

In the past, drug companies sold their new products to doctors through ads and articles in medical journals or, in recent years, by wooing consumers directly through television and magazine advertising. Starting in the mid-1990s, though, the companies also began to focus on a powerful market force: the handful of state officials who govern prescribing for large public systems like state mental hospitals, prisons, and government-funded clinics.

One way drug companies have worked to influence prescribing practices of these public institutions is by funding the implementation of guidelines, or algorithms, that spell out which drugs should be used for different psychiatric conditions, much as other algorithms guide the treatment of diabetes or heart disease. The effort began in the mid-1990s with the creation of TMAP—the Texas Medication Algorithm Project. Put simply, the algorithm called for the newest, most expensive medications to be used first in the treatment of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and major depression in adults. Subsequently, the state began developing CMAP, a children's algorithm that is not yet codified by the state legislature. At least nine states have since adopted guidelines similar to TMAP. One such state, Pennsylvania, has been sued by two of its own investigators who claim they were fired after exposing industry's undue influence over state prescribing practices and the resulting inappropriate medicating of patients, particularly children.

Thanks in part to such marketing strategies, sales of the new atypical antipsychotics have soared. Unlike antidepressants—which have been marketed to huge audiences almost as lifestyle drugs—antipsychotics are aimed at a small but growing market: schizophrenics and people with bipolar disorder. Atypicals are profitable because they are as much as 10 times more expensive than the old antipsychotics, such as Haldol. In 2004, atypical antipsychotics were the fourth-highest-grossing class of drugs in the United States, with sales totaling $8.8 billion—$2.4 billion of which was paid for by state Medicaid funds.

At a time when ethical questions are dogging the pharmaceutical industry and algorithm programs in Texas and Pennsylvania, President Bush's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health has lauded TMAP as a "model program" and called for the expanded use of screening programs like the one at Aliah Gleason's middle school. The question now is whose interests do these programs really serve?

--

Rob Waters has written extensively on the use of psychiatric medication by children. Last year he revealed in the San Francisco Chronicle that the FDA suppressed an internal report linking antidepressants to an increased risk of suicide among children, a story that led to congressional hearings and warnings being issued for the drugs.

Photo: Wyatt McSpadden
© 2005 The Foundation for National Progress


[ May 09, 2005, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: forteanajones ]

[forteanajones]

Sorry to double-post but this kind of ties into a response I posted a few minutes ago on the social control and television (http://www.breakingopenthehead.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000052) thread. The psychiatric industry has a hell of a lot to answer for, and that documentary I mentioned there (Century of the Self (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/century_of_the_self.shtml)) has a huge amount of data that shows exactly how we all signed up for this.

[sidecross]

A resonance of 1932 Berlin may be vibrating in the air. A super race must cull out its deviants. Mental profiling and pharmaceutical manipulation is tidier than extermination.

[jezebelle]

god only in texas, a wild ass state. Thank god for the internet, truth will percolate.

[Manning]

Six weeks later, in January 2004, a child-protection worker went to Aliah's school, interviewed her, then summoned Calvin Gleason to the school and told him to take Aliah to Austin State Hospital, a state mental facility. He refused, and after a heated conversation, she placed Aliah in emergency custody and had a police officer drive her to the hospital.

The above reminds me of a similar story I came across over the past several months. In that particular case, and from the details I recall, a woman's son was assessed as having ADHD; it was suggested that the drug Ritalin would be beneficial. The boy's mother felt that diagnosis was ill-informed and refused to have him medicated. Her son was placed in protective custody as a result and medicated with drugs ranging from the Ritalin she did not want him to have to Risperdal, a powerful antipsychotic which later produced facial tics, a symptom of tardive dyskinesias (http://www.wemove.org/td/). His mother was not given access to see him or have any say in his medical care.

Eventually, she was able to arrange a visit during which she managed to kidnap her own child and flee with him to Canada. At some point the authorities caught up with her, her son was placed once more in protective custody, and she spent several months in jail. At the conclusion of that article she had not seen her son since she'd been in prison, her own record as a fugitive and criminal now serving as additional evidence of her "unfit" status as a parent.

Labels can be powerful.

I'll have to scrounge around and see if I can find the link.

Found it. The mother's name is Diane Booth (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Diane+Booth&meta=), her son's name is Victor.

[ May 09, 2005, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[Manning]

More from the Mind Freedom site...

FAQ Regarding the Shrinking of America

Is it true that the Bush administration has announced a plan to screen all Americans for "mental illness"?

Yes, this is true. The British Medical Journal (BMJ July 2004) reported that Bush plans to unveil a sweeping mental health initiative that would screen every single American for "mental illness."

As predicted, President Bush did endorse the plans promoted by the President's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health. A task force was initiated to evaluate the current mental health industry and look for ways that it could be improved. These plans include screening every single American, with youth as a priority, for signs of "mental illness."

How will people like me be screened?

As the BMJ reported, everyone is at risk of being labeled under Bush's plan. Bush's New Freedom Commission identified a program called the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) (http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/mhprograms/TMAPtoc.shtm) as the model program to be implemented across the US to identify people with "mental illnesses" who have previously been undiagnosed. [Note: Stage 4 of TMAP has been renamed TIMA: Texas Implementation of Medication Algorithms (http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/mhprograms/TIMA.shtm).]

TMAP would call for general health practitioners to screen their patients for mental illness. The Bush administration wants your family physician trained to screen you for mental health problems. So if you go to your doctor for a cough, you would also be asked questions about your mental health.

Anyone involved with the public school system, including kids, educators and other school staff, would be especially vulnerable. Doctors are trained to recognize that the way children act in the doctor's office is not a good indicator of the children's actual behavior. Because of this fact, doctors are more likely to follow the suggestion of a teacher, rather than their own experience interacting with the child. This results in a situation where teachers, not doctors, are, in essence, prescribing medication to kids.

What is TMAP?

TMAP is a program started in Texas in 1995, which coincidentally was when Bush was serving as the governor of Texas. While the name might be confusing, the Texas Medication Algorithm Project is nothing more than a series of flowcharts to standardize the steps taken to treat a vast array of "disorders" ranging from schizophrenia to depression.

"Algorithm" is just a mystifying way to describe those steps to screen everyone, label some, and then place those that are labeled on the most expensive psychiatric drugs first. TMAP is an unscientific cookie cutter method where "one size fits all," and where the drug companies that designed the model can make huge profits, often at the expense of taxpayers and insurance customers.

But aren't programs like TMAP and "Teen Screen" good ideas? Don't we want to find out if people have mental and emotional problems, especially young people?

The idea of looking for people who need help sounds great. But too often when it comes to mental health issues, citizens let the experts handle it. It's time to pop the hood and look inside. What does TMAP really do? And who came up with the idea?

Unfortunately, TMAP and similar programs are like conveyor belts, bringing more and more customers to the psychiatric drug industry. The origin of TMAP is with powerful psychiatric drug corporations. TMAP has come under fire recently because of a strong link between the politicians who helped make TMAP a reality in Texas and the large pharmaceutical companies who stand to make a huge profit from TMAP has been discovered. The drug corporations made sure that TMAP is programmed so that when a person with emotional and mental problems is identified, the first step is often the prescription of the most expensive psychiatric drugs, and sometimes multiple psychiatric drugs.

This corruption is the central focus of a lawsuit in Pennsylvania filed by Allen Jones.

Who is Allen Jones?

Allen Jones, until his recent interview with the British Medical Journal, was a state employee in Pennsylvania working as an investigator with the Office of Inspector General (OIG). While working as an inspector he discovered that politicians in Pennsylvania were receiving gifts from drug companies at the same time they were deciding whether or not to adopt TMAP in Pennsylvania.

Throughout his investigation into TMAP, Mr. Jones met resistance from his superiors who attempted to curtail his investigation by telling him that, as he says in court documents, "pharmaceutical companies are major political contributors and that I should not continue my probe."

Mr. Jones ignored the overt threats and suggestions made by OIG officials, and despite being removed from the investigation he continued probing as a concerned citizen. Through this investigation he also learned that policy makers in Texas had also been influenced by the drug companies.

He reports in court documents in his law suit that, "The pharmaceutical industry has methodically compromised our political system at all levels and has systematically infiltrated the mental health service delivery system of this nation. They are poised to consolidate their grip via the New Freedom Commission and the Texas Medication Algorithm Project." His complete lawsuit is available on-line -- check out the links to read more.

What's wrong with TMAP?

As the BMJ reported, TMAP has been criticized by many people of protecting drug companies' profits at the expense of mental health consumers. What is questionable and alarming about TMAP is that doctors do not have the leeway to deviate from the treatment model.

Whether the patient is diagnosed with "depression", "ADHD" or "schizophrenia," TMAP inevitably leads to the most expensive, brand named drugs currently manufactured. Doctors in TMAP are required to prescribe these drugs, which happen to be the highest priced, patented drugs on the market, and they cannot prescribe less expensive, generic drugs unless the patented ones fail to work. And of course, non-drug alternatives are not a priority in TMAP. If implemented nationwide, TMAP will result in millions of dollars flowing into the pharmaceutical companies who lobbied the politicians to make TMAP a reality.

TMAP is not democracy in action; rather it is big business buying a place in American government policy. While this might not be anything new, this is one of the first times a presidential initiative has had the potential to result in the screening of all American citizens for possible psychiatric drugging. Not only is this an infringement on our civil liberties, but because the drugs most commonly prescribed under TMAP are the most expensive drugs currently manufactured, programs like Medicaid and Medicare would need significant budget increases to support the cost of the medication.

Some people have argued that the high prices of the drugs that TMAP promotes is not a legitimate worry because in the long run there would be a net savings because people diagnosed with psychiatric disabilities would receive "proper treatment" and would not end up in jail. However, this argument is flawed because it is based upon the assumption that the newer more expensive drugs prescribed under TMAP work better than the older less expensive drugs, or better than non-drug alternatives. There is not enough empirical evidence to support this assumption, and certainly not enough research to implement this program nationwide. There is also no scientific evidence of any biological chemical imbalance despite advertising claims by the drug companies.

While TMAP claims to be "evidence based," the fact is that the logic behind TMAP is "drug company profit based."

Are there any other lawsuits in progress like the one that Allen Jones filed?

Yes, the BMJ also reported that psychiatrist Stefan Kruszewski, was fired July 11, 2004 from his position at the Bureau of Program Integrity in the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare.

Dr. Kruszewski's was in charge of the state's mental health and substance misuse programs to protect against fraud, waste, and abuse. He was fired after he began investigating the cause of death of four children and one adult who were under the state's care using TMAP. Some patients were on as many as five powerful "neuroleptic" psychiatric drugs at the same time. This is known as "polypharmacy" and is extremely dangerous.

He reported to his supervisors that this off-label treatment was dangerous and potentially a liability risk for the state. His supervisors replied that it was none of his business and he was ultimately fired for his continued interest in the subject. The entire BMJ article can be read on-line and can be accessed by following the link on the links page.

What happens to people that do not respond to the drugs prescribed under TMAP? Can they be prescribed an alternative form of treatment?

Actually yes. There is a back-up plan just in case the drugs do not work. Electro-convulsive therapy (ECT), also known as shock treatment, is part of TMAP. If patients diagnosed with "clinical depression" do not respond well to the first few expensive drugs that they are prescribed, they can expect to eventually get shocked, which causes brain damage.

Where can I go to see what the TMAP program looks like?

There are numerous government websites that specifically address TMAP. An effective way to find more information on the web about TMAP is to run a web search for TMAP and Texas.

Besides Texas, is TMAP currently in use in any other locations?

As of August 2004, TMAP has been implemented in the following places: Nevada; Ohio; Pennsylvania; South Carolina; New Mexico; Atlanta and Athens, GA; Louisville, Kentucky; Washington, D.C.; San Diego County, CA; and private sector in Denver, Colorado.

What happens if I go to see my doctor and I end up with a label and a treatment plan that I do not agree with?

Versions of "outpatient commitment" are growing throughout the USA, and internationally. Forty-two USA states now have laws that allow individuals to be court ordered to take their psychiatric drugs while living out in the community, even in their own homes.

Psychiatrist Sally Satel, author of the book PC MD, is a fellow working for the huge corporate think tank American Enterprise Institute (AEI) in Washington DC. The Bush administration, which has very close ties to AEI, appointed Dr. Satel to a position on the National Advisory Council of the US Center for Mental Health Services, a half-billion dollar federal agency. This means Dr. Satel sits on a committee that privately reviews all mental health service grants from the federal CMHS.

Dr. Satel and AEI are also major proponents of increasing the use of forced psychiatric drugging, including outpatient commitment. During the June 2004 meeting of the National Advisory Council for CMHS, members were asked to prioritize the main "systems change" they would like the Bush Administration to implement. Dr. Satel requested that outpatient commitment be vastly increased.

Dr. Satel is one of the major opponents of the social change movement led by mental health consumers and psychiatric survivors. Her book, PC MD, contains a chapter called "Inmates take over the asylum" that denounces activists and groups in our movement by name. In the chapter, Dr. Satel identified Support Coalition (now called MindFreedom Support Coalition International) as one of the top three groups that she opposes.

Dr. Satel's opinions are cherished by the Bush administration. If TMAP is implemented across the U.S., Dr. Satel's vision of increased court ordered drugging has the potential of creating a situation where every single American is not just an easy target for a screening program designed by big pharmaceutical corporations, but these citizens may also be unable to say "no" when their doctor pulls out the prescription pad following a few minute interview that has led to them into being branded as having a "mental illness."

AEI itself has also held a special seminar promoting the increase of psychiatric drugs in the USA. One of the board members of AEI is from a major psychiatric drug corporation. AEI's threat to push for more forced psychiatric drugging should be taken quite seriously. After all, Mother Jones magazine credits AEI as being the think tank that helped cook up plans for the war against Iraq. AEI is part of an "organized wealth" backlash since the 1960's to fight social change movements. In fact, Satel has said that a common denominator for people she opposes is that her opponents believe that an imbalance of wealth in a nation can play a key role in adversely impact health.

See also: </font> Alternatives [Mind Freedom Site] (http://mindfreedom.org/links.shtml#ALTERNATIVES)</font> Links for Children and Youth [Mind Freedom Site] (http://mindfreedom.org/links.shtml#YOUTH)</font> Forced Treatment [Mind Freedom Site] (http://mindfreedom.org/links.shtml#FORCED)</font>Also noteworthy from the TMAP site: Psychotropic Medication Utilization Parameters for Foster Children (http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/mhprograms/psychotropicMedicationFosterChildren.shtm). I couldn't help but wonder why foster children required a specialized section as related to their psychiatric medication.

[ May 09, 2005, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[daniel]

ouch - i try to stay fear-free these days, but this stuff made me squirm.

all i can say is that i find it unlikely that the plan to screen all americans will come to pass - it sounds like one of the many trojan horses put forward by the repugnicans. When they don't get their most outrageous ideas passed, they settle for something not quite as terrible. This is the tactic they have used to turn the opposition into jello.

[Manning]

i find it unlikely that the plan to screen all americans will come to pass

Hopefully not. After all, Bush only has a few more years in office and it wouldn't be possible to screen and diagnose more than a small percentage of Americans during that time. Continuing in the hopeful vein... Jeb won't fake an election in 2008. All of which means that in just a few years, the Bush madness will end and there'll be someone new at the helm, who may or may not embrace the ideals of his predecessor.

Between now and then, thousands of people will end up in psychiatric care, some voluntarily, some not. Some will get the help they need, many more will not. Some will die as a result of not getting what they need, some will die as a result of that getting. Some will be helped, some won't, and injustices will occur -- people will be stigmatized, traumatized, restrained, and chemically straitjacketed -- many of them children.

The article above in regard to medicating foster children (http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/mhprograms/psychotropicMedicationFosterChildren.shtm) has guidelines on prescribing antidepressants and antipsychotics to children under the age of four; yet another article in the Children/Youth link concerns itself with the practice of giving Prozac to toddlers (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/656324.stm). My guess is that if you mix it in amidst their Cocoa Puffs they'll never even know it's there.

[Agent Smith]

...yes, we will be rid of the booshs

...unless....

...that is...

...well....

boosh's apporval rating is at it's lowest point, since before the WTC event....

...i wonder what could give him the same kind of 'mandate' that he's felt so justified in pursuing since then?

...seems like everybody's got a cache of weapons grade radioactive waste these days....

hmmmm.... do they have the imagination to go for some other target, or the balls to hit NYC again?

you do know that our theocratic reichfurher's refer to us as 'sodom on the hudson', right?

....naaaaah, i must be crazy :D

[Agent Smith]

...sorry i find black humor to be necessity in this kali yuga...

...i'd have to agree with daniel here. another case of boogiein' with the boogey man.

they'll push it just about as far as they can take it though.

whether to increase our anxiety, thus decreasing our ability to act, or to actually accomplish some version of this...

...and speaking from first hand experience, it's hard to convey just exactly how insideous this form of social control is. i pity those who aren't able to face down family, and the priesthood of psychiatry...

[willoweyes]

Having taught for a year in Texas schools, I can verify this type of thing goes on in our community--but most parents don't protest. I'd estimate that around 20% of the kids "must take their meds." One especially poignant case that I will not forget--a seven-year-old boy who was quick and intelligent--by far the smartest child in that school--was targeted for Ritalin. I and other 2nd grade teachers were asked to "document in writing every case of disruptive behavior", which seemed to include anything other than moving forward at a slow, mindless shuffle and answering when spoken to. Of course my diary was empty, but other teachers were all too eager to join the witch hunt on this bright and shining little boy.

I spoke to the boy's parents, voicing my opinion that the child needeed a more stimulating environment, not drugs (and feeling very daring and brave to do just that little thing) but they allowed him to be put on Ritalin anyway.

[forteanajones]

Personally, I'm with daniel and Smith that Bush's Brave New 1984 plans will largely fail. But just the same, I am at the point where I think it might be wise, for anyone with mental health issues (or who has kids with issues), to avoid creating any kind of trail a court of law can follow. As an Islamic saying goes, "Trust Allah, but tie your camel."

[Agent Smith]

that's a good saying forteanajones...

i've always liked 'praise the lord, and pass the ammo' hahaha...

[craazyman]

What a mess. More evidence of the hyper-materialsm that infects nearly every aspect of American life & the denial of soul that goes along with it.

So many American families are emotionally ill from economic stress, toxic materialism and an abstract disemobied rage. It's no wonder the kids are hyper & jittery given all those vibes. And the huge $$$ to be made by drug companies in making human beings into zombies. What a combination of forces to defend against. No wonder that many families just collapse in face of it.

I don't necessarily see this as a Bush thing though. I think the medical profession has been biased in favor of developing drugs and then finding a problem that they can treat and profit from for a long while now. A dear friend of mine, now deceased, an editor of a poetry magazine, railed about this in his editorials back in the early 1990s--an absolute denial of soul and a nearly maniacal embrace of a materialist approach to treating the psyche.

But it's the group think-that develops that's the most frightening part. Good for you, Willoweyes, for resisting that bullshale & throwing a spark at the darkness.

I just feel enormous sorrow and empathy for the overworked exhausted families who confront this crap. God help them.

[forteanajones]

Right, I'd put the blame on the medical profession also, but in a sense even they are patsies. Even more I blame the Freud family and their millions of followers, who have engineered a massive, worldwide apparatus to explore and feed peoples' feelings as a way to manage and manipulate the masses. Who have helped build the Brave New World situation we have today, where many Western parents would prefer to dope up their kids with food, entertainment, products and drugs than look at their real needs. Medical professionals are essentially pulling the trigger created by the think tanks and the agencies.

[silentwolf]

Very interesting topic here, and it's not surprising that this is going on. I won't blame it all on Bush of course, though he deserves his share, because he's little more than a figurehead from a family of torries, carpetbagging scalawags, and nazi supporters.

Fortunately, the current regime's policies are being rejected from every corner. "No Child Left Behind" is being utterly rejected by UT, in pre-Civil War nullification style, and teachers unions across the US are suing the Federal Government over issues with it. I'm glad to see there's a lot of active resistance to this bogus attempt to sedate the people ~ a move that, if successful, would improve the control they currently have over their slaves, which would be us.

As far as mental health goes...they have no clue what makes you depressed or hallucinate. They can see a few physiological symptoms, but those symptoms are instigated by the intellect's emotional response to stimuli. If you've ever picked up a box of Risperdal, Zyprexa, or Paxil, or even an ad for them, it says in small print, "We're not exactly sure what causes these illnesses, but we think it might have something to do with a chemical imbalance in the brain, and we think that this drug might fix that chemical imbalance, but we're still not sure exactly what this drug does or exactly what a normal brain chemistry looks like."

Mental illnesses can't be cured with drugs because the source of the problem isn't physical. That's a good thing for people who do get trapped on medications ~ the mind is ultimately free from the body, except when it chooses to chain itself to the flesh with the intellect. Learn to think without thought and no drugs will touch you.

[Humming]

I'm not especially worried a mental health screening; it's easy enough to fake "good mental health".

I would not allow myself to be medicated though. I should be in charge of my own central nervous system, and able to make all the decisions regarding my states of consciousness.

The normalization of consciousness through social conditioning is quite tragic, because the standard is such a restricted and disconnected version of what "human" can be.

Good mental health is living in communication with the exterior world, through a relationship with nature, and exploration the unknown.

In shamanic cultures, when people had proclivities for certain abilities like communicating with the spirits of the dead or psychic healing those abilities would be cultivated and understood. Unfortunately in our society those experiences of individuals that disprove or call into question the accepted social reality are not explored, but often repressed and denied.

The science of "mental health" has a lot to do with politics and corporate profits, but also just as equally it's about physiological control of the mind, so that people do not engage in their everday experiences with any passion or intensity, but rather are sedated by the repetitive ease of consumer culture and can adapt to a routine of mostly unconscious existence.

Forteana, is forced medication really now legal in 42 states? You should post more about that.

[ May 10, 2005, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Humming ]

[forteanajones]

That's what he said. I'll have to listen to the program again to be sure, but on the Mind Freedom site there are numerous statements which suggest it's the majority of the States.

As I read up on this more, I learn that apparently there are Assertive Community Treatment centers (run by the ACTA in Michigan) who conduct what's variously known as Forced Outpatient Drugging, Involuntary Outpatient Commitment or, to put a prettier package on it, Assisted Outpatient Commitment. So Oaks is not exaggerating when he says our homes are turning into wards and our neighborhoods into institutions.

[snow]

This is absolutely nuts. First of all, I hope the 'First Family' offers us all a good example and step right up to plate and be the first to offer their bodies and minds to this plan of mental health screening. I for would would be very interested to know, for example, if Grandma Bush is nuts. I would like to know if George W is Nuts. I dont hate him anymore, but he is seriously gumming up the works for some very good friends of mine, and I hate to see them suffer.

Second of all, what is considered sane by this society is CRACKERS. By definiton. Stale white bread.

Anyone who is a genuine seeker of truth is NUTS in a very SPECIFIC way. Mental Health is a cultural chimera and this drug stuff is just another way to disenfranchise the poor. It will also be an effective way to silence any kind of dissent or difference.

It's a sorry fascist state when the poor cannot be poor and left alone.

[jezebelle]

My child was a daycare baby from 8 weeks on.
Known as being bright, yet he didn't always fit the mold. High energy, he never took naps, slow to leave the breast, slow to get out of diapers, I just let him take his natural course. A teacher of his (around 5 years old) begged me to send him to private school because: I quote, "Public school will label him hyper, but he isn't, he's just so bright, he gets it, and I mean deep stuff."

Without getting into it, as a single parent, I went where the graphic work was and as a result, he went to several schools in the city. Everytime in each school, he was tested and asked to be in the enriched classes. But then they declined him. I believed it was because he is not the typical "obedient geek-kid." Skateboarding, sports, needs to be active kept him out. His friends are cool kids, too. Just a bunch of "Futants (future mutants)," as I call them.
Now my ex & I have been able swing private school.
Now he's learning how to focus in a way that he never has. (of course there is the threat that we will kick his ass back to public school) if he doesn't rise up to his potential-because it is within his capability.

I'm glad that I'm considered different, and didn't except the bullshit of the system hook-line-n-sinker. I think if anyone ever messed with me and my child, I just don't know what I would have done! However I did teach him to bend, when it was necessary.

ahhh I got to go to work!
love, jez2

[Manning]

On the Mother Jones site that forteana linked to, there is another article about the drug Risperdal [Risperidone], also by Rob Waters. It highlights some of the insider tricks of the pharamaceutical industry...</font> Spinning The Doctors (http://www.motherjones.com/news/featurex/2005/05/spinning_the_doctors.html)
The ads running in trade journals promised something psychiatrists desperately wanted: a safer antipsychotic. But like so much that comes from the pharmaceutical industry, they present a story of spin.

For years, psychiatrists had been giving mentally ill patients drugs that triggered horrific neurological side effects known as extrapyramidal symptoms (EPS). In the 1990s, pharmaceutical companies led by Janssen Pharmaceutica introduced a new class of "atypical" antipsychotics with eye-catching claims: Not only were they less toxic, their neurological impact was minimal.
"Incidence and severity of extrapyramidal symptoms were similar to placebo," claimed an ad for Janssen’s Risperdal in the April 1994 American Journal of Psychiatry. A placebo, of course, is a sugar pill with no active ingredients that can cause no side effects. What was missing was context.

The studies these claims were based on were conducted with mentally ill patients who were, to start with, on old generation antipsychotics, usually Haldol. To begin the study, all the patients were abruptly taken off their meds. The placebo group went through Haldol withdrawal, a process known to trigger side effects. The others got Risperdal.

"It’s a huge trick," claims David Cohen, a professor of social work at Miami’s Florida International University, who has written widely on psychiatric medication. "In the group yanked off Haldol and left with nothing, the extrapyramidal symptoms worsen. Of course they do. They’ve just been yanked off Haldol and their brains are going haywire!"

In fact, many patients on Risperdal in Janssen-sponsored studies did experience EPS—just not at a greater rate than those withdrawn from Haldol.

Doug Arbesfeld, a spokesman for Janssen Pharmaceutica, said there was nothing misleading about the ads for Risperdal. Few schizophrenic patients available for trials are not already on medications, he noted. "Anyone who understands how these studies are constructed would understand that."

In fact, researchers at McMaster University in Ontario did test patients not previously treated with antipsychotics and found that 59 percent on Risperdal developed Parkinsonism, compared to 52 percent on Haldol.

Risperdal, wrote Richard Horton, editor of the British medical journal, the Lancet, was "a marketing success if nothing else."</font>

[ June 20, 2005, 03:14 AM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[forteanajones]

Thanks for sharing Manning. What you say is true enough in my own experience -- having observed both my parents and a close friend try to deal with prozac, and my mother try several various other alternatives as well, I see nothing going for these kinds of approaches except maybe in very extreme cases. As I get closer to middle age and I watch her continue to struggle, I worry about how my brother and I are going to handle her care given our opinion of our stepfather's ability to look out for her best interests.

One caveat to the comment above about attitudes towards mental health in indiginous cultures -- the concept of insanity can still be valid there. I believe some cultures differentiate between shamanism and insanity in terms of whether or not the individual has the ability to "shut it off". As Harner said once, "All shamans are part-timers. If you were full-time, you couldn't do shamanism. I mean, how could anyone be full-time in the world of spirits unless they were dead?"

[Eagle Wing]

glam, you wrote,
"Anyone who is a genuine seeker of truth is NUTS in a very SPECIFIC way. Mental Health is a cultural chimera and this drug stuff is just another way to disenfranchise the poor. It will also be an effective way to silence any kind of dissent or difference."
hear, hear.
I firmly believe that most often, the "psychotic" break is actually a spiritual emergency, such as in the case of Manning's father. The many frightening drugs mentioned above are designed to dull the brain from going through the natural biochemical processes of spiritual emergence. This is not to say that sometimes, a person's mind is severely disturbed for a time and they might need constant supervision of guidance. But that is what we need -- essentially, more trip guides and less narco-fascists. But that would mean less profit for the pharmies.
The AEI is one of the scariest organizations i've come across.
i'd also like to add that psychiatry, as an industry, is full of the laziest motherfuckers that ever pretended to be of the medical vocation. Sorry about the profanity but that's what they are. Most psychiatrists get solicited every day by pharmaceuticals about what's the next thing to dope someone up with, and yet as a unified professional force, these people have refused to fight for the legalization of MDMA, mescaline, ibogaine and other extraordinarily promising tools for mental SELF-REALIZATION (not numbing). Our society's values are what's psychotic, because we trust these people with our mental health.
Manning, my heart goes out to you and your father. I completely sympathazise with your family situation, as I've had to go through something like that too, but in the realm of obstetrics, not mental health. It seems that when anything medical comes up, people become very defensive and territorial, like "you can't challenge the authority of the experts." I've been wondering about this for a long time. This seems to be the problem with lots of people, deferring to the "authority" of a medical establishment that doesn't have any clue what to do. For real.... ask them yourself. Doctors pretend to be confident because they've all been taught that's what they have to do, since the reality is that their "medical discipline" is really less than 100 years old and is completely based on stuff like complex biochemistry that most of the prescribers don't even understand.
Well, you've got me going now because the corporate biomedical model is one of the worst things happening in this country, maybe even the worst because it's so pervasive.
I'm so sorry to hear that your father was not allowed to go through his mental breakdown. We all should have that freedom.

[ May 19, 2005, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Eagle Wing ]

[Manning]

forteana: One caveat to the comment above about attitudes towards mental health in indiginous cultures -- the concept of insanity can still be valid there.

Yes, I think this is a point worth making. There are different forms of "mental illness", made all the more difficult to pinpoint due to the cultural and personal beliefs and biases that swirl around the issue.

Earlier, silentwolf had suggested that there is no underlying physiological cause to various forms of "mental illness". I can't agree with that anymore than I can that a neurological disorder is the primary cause in all cases. There is a world of difference between wanting to love everybody and wanting to kill everybody. If those involved hope to make any kind of informed decision, they're going to have to work to educate themselves and those around them.

eagle wing: I firmly believe that most often, the "psychotic" break is actually a spiritual emergency, such as in the case of Manning's father.

Certainly, that was how it appeared to several of us. The man had undergone a period of enormous stress and personal burden. It appeared logical that he had simply cracked with the weight of all that. The reports we were receiving from family members also appeared consistent with those of spiritual emergency. [My father-in-law lives quite some distance from me so I've not yet been able to see him in all this time, although my husband has flown out to see him several times since.]

In those reports, I could recognize some of the fragments that my FIL was bringing back from that experience because I've gone through it. To be sure, there were some differences yet, by then he was in hospital and had already been drugged, restrained, and held there against his will. I did share my own experience in the hopes of reassuring family members that this could well be a natural process that he would emerge from with time and support... but my words didn't appear to have much impact. Later, his family members would be instructed by the doctors to refute any claims he made to any reality but the one "they" see, which no doubt, only increased the gulf of isolation he must have felt himself in.

If anything, my personal experience illustrates on the one hand, the utter tragedy of the situation -- Six year-old boys should not be taken from their mothers so they can be institutionalized and medicated for being rambunctious; 13 year-old girls should not be restrained and institutionalized for being rude to their teachers; 79 year-old men should not be restrained and and placed on medication that can strip them of whatever remaining dignity they have -- even kill them -- as a means of "helping".

In addition, my experience offers a personal glimpse into what happens in families where these kind of events unfold. For the most part, people get frightened. They're up against something they don't understand and often, don't want to understand. In some instances, they may challenge those in authority -- such as Diane Booth did (albeit, unsuccessfully); in others, they defer.

It is naive for anyone to suggest that you won't take drugs, or you won't allow yourself to be hospitalized. There may come a point where no one is asking you to make those choices for yourself. There may come a point where someone has decided that you're not capable of making those decisions for yourself, so they'll make them for you. If you don't like those choices... that's why they have restraints, laws, and hypodermic needles.

[ May 12, 2005, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[silentwolf]

Glam, I agree with you completely on the issue of "truth" and being "nuts." In my book, I wrote about the only three actions that are sane: acquiring nourishment, acquiring physical comfort, and acquiring sex. These are the only sane actions because these are the only necessary actions for personal/species survival. Anything that falls outside of that boundary is an action of insanity, because there is no physical reasoning behind it. I put that in my book as a warning that chasing anything spiritual whatsoever is most certainly an act of insanity, so you'd best be prepared to encounter the insane and be insane yourself if you're going to pursue spiritual items.

A lot of people don't realize that chasing ideologies in itself is a spiritual thing; even conquesting for money is a spiritual enterprise. I guess with this perspective, it throws everyone who chases money and plays with it into the realm of insanity...but then again, their actions speak strongly enough for them as it is.

[snow]

haha that's hilarious Silent that aquiring sex is sane, oh if only!! I see your point though, all points well made. I have a lot of reservations about what I said above, because I know too many people who really suffered from mental illness, alternate realities, whatever one calls it. My sister battled realities till the day she died, and then into the after life as well I believe. My best friend in high school wore tin foil caps and had her kittens killed by malignant spies. And what's to distinguish those stories from my sister in law who used to be tied up like a dog by her family and now has 4 children of her own to love and neglect. It's heartbreaking, a vicious cycle, and from what I have seen of many talented spirtual searchers, and, well, they have their own scars. Our complexes become part of the practice. I also think of my very sensitve friends who are incredibly talented artists, and think they have 'chemical imbalances' and get tantilized by zoloft.

My sister used to say in the early stages of her emergency that the psychiatric medical establishment was at the 'leaches and bleeding' stage of pharmeceuticals. In the end, it was only a small dosage of Lithium that helped her make it through each day. The other meds gave her tardive disconesia. (sorry, spelling)

It takes a very gifted person to get someone through a spiritual emergency. I don't know that there are many on the planet that can lead another through. I cry thinking of all those who do not, and spend endless days haunted by a cracked open world, no relief in sight.

[snow]

Carl Jung said that schiz breaks were emergencies, that the dream becomes real. I think also, that the death, the bardo, becomes real. And that's the problem. It becomes real.

[Manning]

silentwolf: These are the only sane actions because these are the only necessary actions for personal/species survival. Anything that falls outside of that boundary is an action of insanity, because there is no physical reasoning behind it.

B...b...but... those are only actions required of the physical plane of existence. What of other degrees or levels of existence?

For example, imagine that it's just you out there in the world and yes, it's necessary to find and sustain those elemental basics of survival. But then you fall in love, and now it's not just you anymore. Now, your needs have grown to include the other. Perhaps the two of you have a child together and now, your needs have expanded once more. You might still have a roof over your head and food in your belly, but will you have what you need if those you love have no home and are starving? You've upped it a notch, and there's a lot more notches it can be upped.

Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs neatly illustrates this basic principle of personal growth...

http://www.deepermind.com/maslow3.png

Source of Image: Hierarchy of Needs (http://www.deepermind.com/20maslow.htm)

A similar evolutionary process is seen in Clare Graves theory of spiral dynamics (http://www.spiraldynamics.org/Graves/colors.htm), even the chakra system (http://www.mandalayoga.net/index.php?rub=newsletter_en&p=chakras). Each relates to a theory of exponential growth that includes the previous level even as it surpasses it. What is or is not insane will depend very much on which level you are approaching it from. On a lower level, to put the needs of someone else ahead of your own could be construed as insane; on a higher level it might be construed as insane to not do so.

[ May 12, 2005, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[Manning]

glam: I have a lot of reservations about what I said above, because I know too many people who really suffered from mental illness, alternate realities, whatever one calls it.

If someone has diabetes, they can have one of two types. The first type can largely be controlled through life-style factors, the second requires a daily dose of insulin. There are specific characteristics associated with the specific type of diabetes one has that helps to differentiate them as Type I or Type II.

Likewise, there are different forms of mental illness. The most extreme form of mental illness is "schizophrenia" which is often mistaken for a form of "spiritual emergency", notably via the symptoms of psychosis or an altered state of consciousness.

I think it's very important that any individual who is actively practicing shamanism or engaging in shamanistic activities be aware of the potential risks associated with those practices in this culture. One of the risks is criminal charges as related to the legality of any substances you may use to assist yourself in reaching a non-ordinary state of consciousness. The other risk is the interpretation by your self or others to those states. Note, I didn't say that you should fear those risks -- there's no need for rampant paranoia, simply be aware that they're part of the package in this culture.

No doubt, there are some practical considerations that can be applied to the selection of psychedelic substances -- what it does, where you can get it, who you can get it from, when you should do it, if should you do it, what you could possibly expect if you do it, etc.

There are also some practical considerations to keep in mind in relation to those altered states of consciousness -- such as being able to determine if what you are experiencing is true schizophrenia or the transformational crisis of spiritual emergence.

On page 4 of the Shamanism & Schizophrenia (http://www.breakingopenthehead.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000034) topic, I've included a chart developed by Christina and Stanislav Grof that can help guide the decision-making process. Bear in mind, the emphasis on the word "guide". There are certain phases of a spiritual emergency that can appear to be entirely schizophrenic in nature -- it's helpful to put these phases into context within the bigger picture.

The Spiritual Emergence Network also provides a very helpful guide that identifies different forms of spiritual emergence (http://www.nor.com.au/community/spiritualemergence/page4.html). In addition, John Weir Perry has identified a concise pattern of characteristics associated with a very specific form (http://www.tygersofwrath.com/psychosis.htm) of spiritual emergence, the self-renewal process.

glam: Carl Jung said that schiz breaks were emergencies, that the dream becomes real. I think also, that the death, the bardo, becomes real. And that's the problem. It becomes real.

Have you seen my favorite site on the internet as related to schizophrenia?

When the Dream Becomes Real (http://www.global-vision.org/dream/dreamch1.html)

[ May 13, 2005, 05:17 AM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[tana]

I'm so glad to see this topic discussed here...very important that people know this is going on. This across-the-board mental health screening, combined with involuntary medication is a serious situation. Yes, involuntary medicating is legal in most states...my brother is legally bound to receive bi-monthly outpatient injections of Prolixin...this "medicine" does not address his symptoms...it simply masks them by disabling his brain. He is given no other options outside money-making antipsychotics. He is incredibly intelligent and artistic, but the prolixin crushes these qualities. He feels trapped...he dispises these meds and worries what they are doing to his body and mind.

I find the current mental health system, and this recent political development (Bush's TMAP/New Freedom) nothing less than sickening...i have such strong feelings on this subject that it is usually too overwhelming for me to even talk about, (especially when most people don't realize the insidiousness of it) but it makes me feel so much better to see this discussed by the members of this board.

It should make you squirm, Daniel...it's very real, and very creepy.

Mindfreedom is a fab organization, BTW.

[ May 12, 2005, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: tana ]

[silentwolf]

Manning, you added some very good points there with your last two posts. Protection of family definately ties into the whole sex issue, in my opinion; next time I comment on that regards, I'll be certain to explain that point better as I see it. The pyramid was definately very interesting, I'd never encountered anything like that before.

Yes, there are needs other than the physical on the more ethereal planes of existence, but as I see it, sanity relates specifically to the Material Plane, and has no foundation on any of the other Planes of Existence. Sanity is a fixed thing, whereas Insanity is constantly creative and free ~ It's the difference between the Material Plane and the Plane of Imagination.

[snow]

Manning, thanks for the fantastic links and the music. You really understand, so many people on this forum do. I hope all of us can bring it on through.

[Piers]

This is a very important topic and its great to see how much energy its generated....

One major point -- the theory of the "biochemical imbalance" is only a hypothesis. No one has proven that any psych drug can "correct" a known chemical imbalance. So while the drug companies can tell us about the action of a particular drug, they cannot demonstrate that the drug in question corrects anything. Furthermore, as Dr Peter Breggin notes, "The therapeutic effect of psychotropic medication is its toxicity." That is, a drug only begins to "work" at a toxic level.

Even the Surgeon General is forced to admit that "the precise causes (etiology) of mental disorders are not known" and "there is no definitive lesion, laboratory test, or abnormality in brain tissue that can identify (a mental) illness."

I worked in the Mental Health system for several years as a Crisis Clinician. It horrified me. Amongst the poor and elderly, the community Mental Health system serves as a mechanism to divert taxpayer money via medicare and medicaid to large drug companies.

I am not nearly so optimistic as Daniel. This is real Big Brother stuff and far more pervasive than most of us realize. "Chemical restraint" is widely used in our prisons. Kids doing a few years for selling weed are the guinea pigs of Pfizer and Co.

"And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be within the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing … a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda, brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods."
Aldous Huxley, 1959

See also Peter Breggin and StopShrinks.org.

[daniel]

as for optimism vs pessimism, i don't know if you want to take the words of bashar, a higher-dimensional channelled entity (from a California-based medium), as your gospel, however his basic points match with my understanding.

http://iasos.com/metaphys/bashar/#valid

All beliefs are equally valid.
(since each belief generates its own self-validating reality).

Whatever your belief, the universe will support and validate that belief by attracting the circumstances, situations, opportunities and people into your life that will reinforce that "version" of reality.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Making it Easy to Change your Beliefs

When we experience an undesireable reality, we have to back-track and ask ourself: "What would I have to be believing in order to create such a Reality"?

Once we then get in touch with this belief that is creating the undesired outcome, we can decide and choose our preferred belief - what belief we would like to REPLACE this earlier belief with.

So, then we adopt this new preferred-belief. Ah.............but here's where it gets "tricky". Often, people find themselves "slipping back" to the old unpreferred-belief. Why? Usually, because they have this deep-seated sense (this underlying gut feeling) that, somehow, the old belief is "more real", "more solid", more "how things really are", than the new preferred-belief.

So, how we can make the new preferred belief "stick"? The critical factor is this:

Getting used to the idea that
There is no reality, except for the reality you define (according to your beliefs).

Getting used to the idea that
There is no reality, except for whatever you define your reality to be.

Getting used to the idea that
There is no "basic" reality that is any "more real" than any other reality.

Getting used to the idea that
There is no "basic reality" against which you can gauge and judge how "real" your new belief is.
The reality actually is that there is no "inherent reality".
There are only the realities generated by any belief (all of which are equally-valid, equally-real)

Getting used to the idea that
There is no one definition of reality that is any more real or valid than any other definition.

Like starting a painting:
It's an empty canvas with infinte possibilites.
"Empty" because there is NO "inherent real reality" at all!
"Infinite Possibilites" because reality can be ANYTHING you define it to be, according to your definitions, your beliefs.

When this really "sinks in". When you truly "get", "grok", and understand that there is no "real" reality, you will no longer have that lingering feeling that the old belief is more "real" than your new preferred belief. You will thereby not feel any deep-seated "need" to slip back to the old belief, because it is somehow more representative of "the real world".

You can then easily accept and adopt whatever definitions of reality are most aligned with the "you" that you prefer,
and most aligned with the "reality" you would prefer to experience.

And if you find yourself, once again "slipping back" to previous undesireable reality-definitions, then simply sit back and spend more time contemplating these ideas about:
There is no "basic" reality that is any "more real" than any other reality.
There are only the realities generated by any belief.
All beliefs are equally-valid, equally-real.

Then in realizing that your new-preferred belief is just as valid, and just as "real", as your older undesired belief, simply choose to effortlessly adopt your new preferred belief.

[Humming]

In regards to optimism, Bashar definitely knows what's up.

Why be optimistic? Well, consider the alternative...

Yes, there are people who work to make you enslaved, delusional, subservient, doscile, and controlled, but freedom ultimately comes from within.

Realize the ways in which you enslave yourself with delusion, instead of worrying about who else may be trying to control you.

I am the singular incarnation of a universal consciousness that cannot be divided and whose power cannot be lessened, except through belief--which is itself the medium through which all power manifests.

I believe that my embrace of this "positive synchronicity" will protect me from the more hideous fates that are to be found in this day and age. It's worked so far, and I can only hope that my life will continue this way.

I decided a long time ago that if I were ever to be sentenced to prison for an extended period, under the duress and torture of the system in all its atrocious methodologies, I would probably choose to kill myself instead.

Is this a pessimistic view? No. I'll try my hardest to avoid that kind of "bad luck" but if it happens, well then fuck it, I'll just have to start over and try again.

[ May 14, 2005, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Humming ]

[paul]

When we experience an undesireable reality, we have to back-track and ask ourself: "What would I have to be believing in order to create such a Reality"?
Once we then get in touch with this belief that is creating the undesired outcome, we can decide and choose our preferred belief - what belief we would like to REPLACE this earlier belief with.
Hmmmmn, interesting...I'm thinking of the Hindu dieties...but what lies beyond belief, is this experiential realm reality, or is there some experientiable essence beyond it, i like to think there is
---------------------------------------------------------------

"the law of Karma"
____________________________________

[Halfglass]

Paul; interesting. Believeing in someting which seems to support the idea that one will be freed of the eternal hellfire... is certainly appeailing isn't it? But the Hindus...for one know better...as well as I!.

[*J*]

Uh, I think they were actually prematurely channeling Robert Anton Wilson ( Robert Anton Wilson's Homepage (http://www.rawilson.com/main.shtml) ), who isn't dead quite yet, though the poor man has to smoke a lot of dope these days to stay sharp.

Great post, though!

*J*

[ May 18, 2005, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: *J* ]

[Halfglass]

Daniel: What you said, I didn't attune myself to, at first. What you are saying there holds alot of gravity, and truth! Later Dan....

[tana]

I really liked Daniel's post on "Making It Easy To Change Your Beliefs"...that approach it something that I need to constantly remind myself of, because for some reason, a positive point of view does not come naturally. Bashar's words are so basic, and make such perfect sense...why is his/her philosophy not second nature? That post and the replies to it made me wonder, why is it so hard (for myself, anyway) to shift my outlook to an optimistic one? I mean, such a perspective is certainly more appealing, and I do believe it completely shapes my reality. What is the motivation to maintain (or so rapidly slip back into) a nihilistic mindset?

Alex Grey (that wonderful artist) wrote in his book that evil is nihilism ...yes!! It is so frustrating for me to see my brother go through such an ordeal...it seems so unfair...but i use this situation, and every other painful experience, to reinforce my view of an evil world...i fuel this evil daily. Dammit!

[ May 19, 2005, 02:52 AM: Message edited by: tana ]

[whitewave]

I discovered last night, to my surprise, that people were actually paying attention to my words. My brother, alarmed at one of my blogs, called my parents to tell them he thought I was suicidal and that it was time for them to step in. I have been depressed and unmedicated my whole life (37 years), aware of being "off" since childhood. I have never considered medication, even before I became aware of the shift in consciousness we discuss here on the board, m y instincts told me that my depression was a spiritual dis-ease, and while it may manifest in my body as a chemical imbalance, that I needed to readjust myself on the spiritual level. I have tried all sorts of things, but I know in my heart it has only been half-way, hence the continuance of these dark feelings. Lately, the depression has been very intense and I have become vocal about it and about what I see happening to the world--a purging of negativity perhaps, I don't feel out of control. Anyway, my parents called me up and asked me to move in with them and be treated by "experts" for my "mental problem." When I refused, they became angry. My Dad said he was going to fly out here and come and get me. I told him he would have to physically restrain me to get me to go with him, which caused him to back down, but the thought that he might do this scares me. When I tried to explain my world view to my parents I could hear the wheels turning in their heads....crazy....I could hear them say. I woke up today feeling like my burdens had been lifted somewhat, namely because one of my worlds has collapsed, the world of lies I told to my parents about everyting being all right, that I fit into their version of reality. It was quite a strain. I feel bad that I caused them to suffer, but their misunderstanding and judgment of me has caused me enormous suffering. I am not trying to make them feel guilty in turn. I just want the inner freedom to express myself as truthfully as possible.

[snow]

Whitewavbe, If your instincts are working, I believe you can most certainly work through this. Deep Instincts are sanity.

I too went through what felt like a devastating spell, and it took me a while to work through it, ... I was holding at 99.9 percent for a few years there, but I can honestly call it 99.999999 percent worked through now. Lots of people thought I should have used meds, but for the same reasons you cite, I did not.

The last measure I tried was ibogaine. I did many ceremonies before the ibogaine, and when I did it, i was given a whopping dose and it barely affected me. I did, however, see a crystal gem face, faceted on many sides, serene and luminescent, I saw a baby girl child blue buddha face, blissfull peaceful, inner smiling, and i saw a large moon emerge from the ground, which I placed on the crown of my head. But that was it. No memories or ancestors, etc. I guess that was the only chemical I used. Otherwise I used several vison quests, which seemed to get me into more trouble than out, lol.

Why am I saying all that, lol. I dont know. You know your family's trip wires, I knew mine, I did not try to set them off, tried to keep out of their alarm systems, so I could keep my space to work out as I needed to. Protect yourself, walk smart, tell a little white lie and 'yes mam yessir' when you have to just so they go back to their own business, and you can do yours.

Power to you.

[snow]

incase-a me-a culp-a, i know they were alerted by your brother, not by you, so im just wishing you the best in getting them off your back. ciao!

[Manning]

I saw a baby girl child blue buddha face, blissfull peaceful, inner smiling

A baby girl, or a child girl? I ask because I've noticed that a girl of approximately kindergarten age is a recurring theme in the experiences of some. If a young girl appeared only in the visions of females I might be inclined to suspect it was indicative of one's own inner child, but she appears in the visions/altered states of males as well. I've run across a reference to same a few times now and am wondering if there's more significance to that theme than mere coincidence.

Also, if you don't mind sharing, could you give an approximate time frame as to when your experience occurred.

[snow]

Hi Manning,

The break occurred in 97. It took 1 1/2 years before I could turn on an electric light switch without freaking out. Another 1 1/2 years to stablize a bit more. During this time I could hold a job, but could not handle much stress. From 2000 till 2004 was moving into 99.9 territory, and I must say, since the ibogaine, even more. I am picking up the ability to read again, which was impossible for a long time.

I also did a 21 day water fast, this past January, and this time I did have dreams of my significant ancestor. My family line is ill, and I am trying to help them. He gave me words about that.

The blue serene girl was about 6 years of age. Her eyes are halfway closed, she has the most beatific calm and sweet appearance, half smile and a placid brow.

It's incredible to me if others have seen her too....

I was just out doing yard work for a while, and thinking how much I have enjoyed Whitewave's posts in this forum. Whitewave, I hope you can feel my regard for you. I'm new here, and I have really learned a lot so far.

[forteanajones]

If you are concerned about "uninvited intervention", Whitewave, I urge you to fill out a MindFreedom shield registration at http://www.mindfreedom.intenex.net/shield. My heart is with you; the interaction you described hit very close to home. Protection is obviously not guaranteed, but every little precaution can help.

Glam, I am curious, was your ibogaine experience at the Canada or Mexico clinic? The little girl you described sounds like it could be an anima (feminine side of a man's personal unconscious). The "inner child" (or in Jung's terms "tribal brother/sister") interpretation usually makes more sense if you are working with images of and interactions with a child or person who is of the same gender as you.

There's also the precog or actualization possibility. When I was younger I had numerous dreams of a little blonde girl and I always stuck to the psychological model until my daughter was actually born. Not only were the conversations and settings from my conversations with her replayed in real life, but I'd also dreamt (prior to our having met) of being with her pregnant mother during the very start and very end phases of her future pregnancy. (Some additional material came from a fictional narrative I wrote a few months before the unplanned pregnancy ocurred).

[snow]

Forteana, Hi there, that is quite incredible about your precrecognition dreams of your daughter. ...

Forteana, I didn't do the ibogaine in Mexico or Canada...I did it in the US....

I've wondered those things too, about the girl, if she was inner child, though I had not thought of anima....Ive had a few dreams with the animus, interestingly enough, after the break in 97. I had a dream of a man in traction in a hospital room. He was entirely bandaged. He was a speed cyclist, had had a bad crash. He looked at me, through the bandages, and told me the only reason he had survived: when he went to buy his helmet, there were very expensive ones, and a really cheap one. He bought the cheap one. And that was the only reason he survived.

"He who tries to save his life shall loose it".

Later, I realized he was my animus.

Interestingly enough, just this Christmas, I had a dream I was cycling through New York, through the tunnels, through the streets, going extrememly fast and flying...think that means he, the man in traction, is better.

The blue girl, I'm really curious what Mannig says...I don't know who she was...she just kind of floated there, like a Maurice Sendak drawing, but real-er.

[silentwolf]

Forteana, thanks for sharing the pre-cog bits. I get those quite a lot. Whenever I experience a deja-vu, I know that something "bad" is about to happen. It always occurs right after the deja-vu, and it's usually things that I have no direct influence upon.

I actually had one last night, along with the message "You will be separated." Separated from what? I really have no idea, but I do know that talking about prophetic visions usually stops their occurrence...so I'm sharing this one until I forget it.

Glam ~ I feel you on the breakdown part. I went through one of those myself, started in '97 and lasted 'til '02. Sometimes it's hard to say if I'm completely out of it, but I can definately say it was a spiritual emergence that changed my life-view. Best of luck in working through yours, mate.

[Manning]

glam: The blue girl, I'm really curious what Mannig says...I don't know who she was...she just kind of floated there, like a Maurice Sendak drawing, but real-er.

The young girl who showed up in my experience represented "god", albeit a less mature and somewhat sarcastic representative (who drank and cussed) which may have further represented my own shaky faith at that time. She served in the role of threshold guardian to that experience.

An anima figure? Perhaps if I was a male. Inner child? Possibly. One woman who encountered a similar five year-old girl felt that she represented the imaginative faculty.

[ May 20, 2005, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Manning ]

[snow]

Thank you Silent.

Thanks for sharing that Manning...threashold figure, yes, very much so. She seems to have her own authority.

[whitewave]

Thank you to everyone....
I have felt better today than I have in months. I understand that sometimes it is best just to agree and go about one's business, but the stress of doing that had become too much for me. I think I needed to admit my feelings in order to fully commit myself to participating in the formation of the new consciousness being ushered into earth. I regret that I had to upset people so much, but I feel I have freed myself to fully participate in this new dream by saying what I truly believe. This may not be necessary for everyone, but it is for me, at least right now.

Glam, I have received a ritual called a genetic clearing from my teacher that I can pass on to you if you're interested. It is a way to clear all ties between you and others, living or dead. It can also be done to support positive connections you have with others.

[snow]

I'm interested, please email it to me.

I understand you about being truthful. They may as well hear it from you first, heh.

[Manning]

Ive had a few dreams with the animus, interestingly enough, after the break in 97. I had a dream of a man in traction in a hospital room. He was entirely bandaged. He was a speed cyclist, had had a bad crash. He looked at me, through the bandages, and told me the only reason he had survived: when he went to buy his helmet, there were very expensive ones, and a really cheap one. He bought the cheap one. And that was the only reason he survived.

My animus showed up in my experience as a gray-haired mentor of sorts. It's worth noting that aspect of personhood also came to life in a few very vital, very select, and very real relationships.

At any rate... several months after my experience had passed I had a dream in which the individual I had most projected my animus upon, and myself, were in a hospital. Both of us had been grieviously wounded due to circumstances but a stroke of good fortune had placed us in the same hospital ward, separated only by a thin curtain.

I soon discovered the separation of curtain and pushed it aside. Thereafter, I began actively engaging with this "character". For the first few months it was enough just to hang about together in hospital. As we both recovered, we began to venture outward into other areas such as the cafeteria and outer wards. After several months we ventured out of doors.

I clearly recall one dream in which he and I stood upon a bridge made of stone. The bridge overlooked a vast valley and in that valley was a community of people. In that dream, the valley was green, lush and fertile, with the sun spilling its gaze into the depths. The people that wandered the glorious green of that landscape were happy. I didn't need a Jungian therapist to interpret that dream as one of positive growth.

[snow]

Manning, incredible.

"I clearly recall one dream in which he and I stood upon a bridge made of stone. The bridge overlooked a vast valley and in that valley was a community of people. In that dream, the valley was green, lush and fertile, with the sun spilling its gaze into the depths. The people that wandered the glorious green of that landscape were happy. I didn't need a Jungian therapist to interpret that dream as one of positive growth."

Incredible. On the 21 day fast, in a dream, my father took me out in his pickup truck in the cornfields. We stopped at the top, and looked over a landscape just as you describe.

How fascinating, to compare dreams, trips and notes with someone else who has been through an animus hospitalization!!!

I'm offline for a few days, all my regards.