The 13th Sign: Ophiuchus-The Serpent Bearer

[nwowatcher]

http://www.altergray.50megs.com/images/ophiuchus.gif

Ophiuchus - The Serpent Holder
http://altergray.50megs.com/the_13th_zodiac_sign.html

There are not too many people who are aware that there is a 13th symbol in the Zodiac that for the most part has been overlooked. There are many reasons for this, but it would be novel in size trying to explain everything.

For the most part, Ophiuchus has been left out for two main reasons. (1) Because of our modern calendar (12 months, 12 signs) and (2) Because people like the Zodiac the way it is and it would be extremely costly to change how it is now. As usual, it's mostly due to the money.

There was not always a 13th sign. The signs of the
Zodiac are the ones they are for the most part because of the path the Sun takes on it's yearly journey across the heavens and which star constellations (or 'Houses') it seems to pass through as seen from the Earth. The 12 signs of the Zodiac we are all aware of are the 12 star constellations the Sun passes through on this yearly track, but this Zodiac is very outdated.

The dates shown with each sign are the days that the Sun happens to be in a certain star constellation and is what determines what sign you are to be linked. The most common Zodiac in use, the Tropical Zodiac, which for the most part is the one that is used by newspapers and other such establishments, was created about 2000 years ago, problem is that nothing in the cosmos is stationary and the stars and planets are constantly in a state of movement. About 2000 years ago, the Sun would travel from the star constellations Scorpius and then directly into Sagittarius, but due to the constant motion of the cosmos, the Sun now spends a few days in the star constellation Ophiuchus before entering Sagittarius from Scorpius, hence the birth of the 13th sign of the Zodiac, Ophiuchus the Serpent Holder.

Being that the Zodiac we use was created long before people had the knowledge of the cosmos as we do today and because of just how much planets and stars have moved around since, it is very possible that the sign you have always believed to have been born under is very wrong. Below are three main versions of the Zodiac.

http://www.altergray.50megs.com/images/ophiuchus.jpg

Ophiuchus, a decan of Scorpius, does spend as much time with the sun on the ecliptic, as does Scorpius. Both are on the same real estate. The only difference is that Ophiuchus, is not in the natural southernly path of the 12 major constellations of the Zodiac like Scorpius.

Ophiuchus is well above this path and it would be very awkward to promote it as part of the natural universal precession or wave that the archetype twelve constellations have on their circuit along the ecliptic. Can the time that Ophiuchus spends on the ecliptic determine or merit it to be called the thirteenth archetype constellation of the Zodiac? If so, maybe we should count Virgo twice, since it is on the ecliptic the longest. Therefore, Aries which does not even touch the ecliptic should not be counted at all.

There has always been twelve archetype symbols or asterism, from prehistoric times well before the occult groups misunderstood them or modern science changed them.

It is even clarified in the definition of the Zodiac.

Recent attempts by modern science in creating a "thirteenth" constellation of the Zodiac, the Ophiuchus, has created a great rift with modern astrologers, who if they accept it, could not justify why their charts are so out of alignment with the real world.

Ophiuchus, the Serpent Bearer, has the sun in front of its stars during the first half of December. Also of interest is that one person in twenty is an "Ophiuchus."

This creates quite a dilemma for the astrologer to explain why all the "Signs of the Zodiac" are off by about one month, resulting in inaccuracy of their horoscope charting. As it will for anyone who uses it to forecast or predict the future in that manner.

The "sun sign," system has been out of kilter for the past few thousand years. Thus all those who believe they were born under a certain astrological sun sign, may not realize that it is not possible. When the Babylonians chose the twelve equally spaced "signs," each 30 degrees wide, even then they only approximately coincided with the constellations as to views of astronomers today.

As seen in the 1990's the sun, due to the precession of the equinoxes, has shifted to be two constellations off of its original position claimed by the Babylonian astrologers of 5th century B.C.

This makes perfect sense to me, since God never intended the 12 archetype symbols or asterisms to be used for that purpose any way.
http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterFive/OphiuchusDilemma.htm


http://www.mazzaroth.com/Introduction/Images/ZodiacDefinition.gif


http://www.altergray.50megs.com/images/ophiuchus.jpg
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IN A RELATED STORY TO THE U.N. PUSHING FOR A 13 MONTH CALENDAR SYSTEM.
http://altergray.50megs.com/the_13th_zodiac_sign.html

[Susann]

That means that all Sagitariouses are infact Ophiuchiuses, right?
I will need a new horoscope description of my personality traits, when will I be able to acces that?

[nanouk]

'The lost Zodiac of the Druids' by Gregory A. Clouter smile.gif

but there are lots of links if you google it.

all Sagittarians aren't Ophichians, the sign also travels with the blue moon, the thirteenth moon, which occurs once every 2.5-3 years...

i am no astrologer, and all this stuff is interpreted differently by money spinners, but i do know that the two coiled serpents are the hermetic symbol of Ophichius, the healer.

the book is great, it explains the mystery of the Gundestrup Cauldron, found in a bog in Denmark, and geographically, it's resting place is in direct confluence with many ancient sites from Ireland to Sweden.

Astrologers will have to read from Vega rather than Sirius to get the right constellations soon, our Living Rock has probably tilted a bit lately... ;)

Love, Peace and Respect,
~N~

[ March 29, 2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: nanouk ]

[nwowatcher]

Apologies that the initial post was put together a little sloppily..

Ophiuchus is also strongly associated to Isis:
http://www.graveworm.com/occult/precess/ophiuchus.html

I'm sure we all know the occultic relations to the number 13. The number of the Witches Coven, the 12 zodiacs around the 1 sun, the 12 disciples around the 1 son, the 12 sides of the great pyramids of Egypt, with the 1 missing capstone. The Friday the 13th date of the crucifiction(?), and the destruction of the Knights Templars.

Was Ophiuchus the FIRST 13?

[nanouk]

Ophichius is thought to represent Cernunnos, who is also a (ram horned snake) bearer, and Cernunnos looks like Oden, (Wodin) too, many shamanic drawings depicts this antler bearing god, psychopomp, in Austria there is a composite mythological animal they call Raurackl, a bird with hare's ears and deer's antlers, it reminds me of Cernunnos too, so does Pan, but Pan wears goat's horns, another name for him is Hermes Pan, a true androgynous deity.

the antlers represent the sprouting moon as it enters Scorpio, and when Ophichius/Cernunnos ascended in the sky releasing the captive power of the sun, renewed growth, as he came back from the underworld.
Cernunnos is not only holding the serpent, he is also holding the Ouroboros, (the Milky Way) in his right hand.

[nanouk]

Ophichius was the only mortal to be honoured with a star sign, because he revived his twin brother with his healing powers, thereby the classic depiction of him holding one snake down to revive the dead one laying by his feet...

Have a Nice Day/Night, Y'all!
smile.gif
Love and Respect,
~N~

ps. Ooops! it seems i have mis-spelt his name all along...oh well, a loved child has many names! same as Ouroboros, there are many variations of his name too...pardon my scandinavian ignorance...

[ March 29, 2005, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: nanouk ]

[whitewave]

I believe Einstein was born under the sign of Ophiuchus.

[nanouk]

yes he was :cool:
but it must have been his rising sign, because the 14th of march is my boys's birthday, and a blue moon only occur at the end of a month, and the ophiuchus is obviously around samhain...

so he was pisces/ophiuchus, unless he was vein like joan collins or andy warhol, and lied about his birthday! *lol*

but then, on the other hand, the way our gregorian calendar has screwed our perception of time up, maybe there was a full moon at his birth date, and one about 27.3/29.5 days previous to that, so only the gods and stephen hawking knows...unless one goes here:

Virtual Moon Phases (http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/vphase.html)

[ March 30, 2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: nanouk ]

[Isaiah Mpski]

Nanouk,
You have passed 666 posts.
Please come to Oklahoma for your reward.
The Lord.

[ March 31, 2005, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Isaiah Mpski ]

[Manning]

Thanks for the info nwowatcher. I wasn't aware of the 13th sign before this time.

The website you linked to is currently down but this site has some good info too: Scorpio and Ophiucus (http://www.unol.org/saw2/cycles/scophiu.html). That site is associated with Alice Bailey and Ageless Wisdom. Interesting stuff there.

[nwowatcher]

Thanks Nanouk, i'll have to look deeper into the connection with Cernunnos. I know a bit about the horned god, but not much about the relation between he, and the Ophiuchus.

And should i be paranoid manning? That site was working up to the night when i posted this initial post!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v335/prezhorusin04/NEW%20ALBUM/oph_c.gif

Ophiuchus is also heavily associated with Isis:
http://www.graveworm.com/occult/precess/ophiuchus.html

[Eagle Wing]

I'm afraid that nwowatcher's information is misleading.

Nwowatcher commits the same error as most rationalist or scientific critics of "astrology", by asserting that the Signs and the Constellations are the same thing, and because of the phenomena of precession, traditional astrology is out-of-whack, and therefore is "wrong".
The real error is a failure to distinguish between Tropical and Sidereal astrologies.

First of all, the Constellations, or asterisms, that is, star-groups, are different from the Signs.

The western tradition of Tropical astrology, which most of us know from our Sun Signs, states that the Signs are a 12-fold subdivision of the year, as defined by the Solstices and the Equinoxes. Zero degrees of the Sign called "Aries" begins at the moment of the Vernal (Spring) Equinox. This has absolutely nothing to do with the constellations, and never did, as Ptolemy makes clear in the Tetrabiblos.

It is certainly a source of confusion that the Signs, as defined by the Earth's revolution around the Sun, share the same names as certain constellations. Their common naming probably goes back to the time when they did in fact coincide. Since then, our point of view has precessed and the Spring Equinox now occurs with the constellation of Pisces in the background; in the next 200 years, Aquarius will be the constellation behind the Equinox, thus the "Age of Aquarius". The confusion seems to be never-ending because of the coincidence of the names.

Isn't it funny how one correspondence can sometimes lead to a lot of trouble, when it's misplaced? All of us who have investigated psychedelics can probably relate to this...

The mix-up between Signs and Constellations is a long-standing confusion that is still misunderstood by many to this day, so I can't really hold it against nwowatcher for being victimized by this misconception. Unfortunately for the thesis that traditional astrology is irrelevant, however, Ophiucus and the more commonly known constellations have nothing to do with the ancient tradition of Tropical astrology as it is practiced.

The number 13 is indeed sacred and mystical. Its manifestation in the system of astrology is not as a 13th Sign. Rather, the 12 Signs are actually each a polarity of a 6-vector equilibrium which is a natural phenomenon, and related to the Seasons of Earth's revolution. The mystical 13 is the Center: the Earth from which our awareness radiates outward.

The argument that Ophiucus seems to pass behind the Sun and therefore should be honored with an archetype is one that should be taken up within the field of Sidereal astrology -- Sidereal astrology is based on the constellations, not the seasons. Vedic astrology is an ancient tradition with this perspective, so one would do well to investigate that tradition in order to understand more about this subject.

There's a decent article about the difference between Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs at:

http://www.astrologyforthesoul.com/vp/vedicastrologylesson1siderealtropical_printer.html

[nwowatcher]

Thanks for helping to explain the difference Eagle. If i am somewhat confused it's because i don't really believe in Astrology, nor do i really study it, other then in a mythological sense,and the information reguarding Ophiuchus is far from conclusive. It seems half the people are taking the serpent bearer only as a constellation, half are taking it as a zodiac sign, and the others see it as both a constellation AND a Zodiac sign.

My thinking would tell me that if it held a position in the early chart of constellations, that it likewise held a place in the astrological teachings and understandings..But i understand how the existence of Ophiuchus isn't such a cut and dry solution...

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Definition: [Sun Signs - Solar Zodiac] Ophiuchus, the sign of the Serpent Bearer, is the 10th sign of the Real Solar Zodiac. However, although it lies on the Ecliptic it is not one of the signs of either the Tropical Zodiac of standard Western Astrology, or the Sidereal Zodiac of standard Vedic astrology.
MORE:
http://www.geocities.com/astrologyconstellations/ophiuchus.htm
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THE ASTROLOGICAL ATTRIBUTES OF OPHIUCHUS
The 13th Sign of the Zodiac
by Betty Matteson Rhodes

There was not always a 13th sign in the Zodiac [Mazzaroth]. About 2000 years ago the Sun traveled from the constellation Scorpius and then went directly into the sign of Sagittarius, but due to the constant motion of the cosmos, the Sun now enters, for a few days of the year, the star constellation 'Ophiuchus' before entering Sagittarius from Scorpius, thus creating Astrologically the birth of a thirteenth sign of the Zodiac, which is named: Ophiuchus the Serpent Holder.
http://aquarianmysteries.com/ophiuchus2.html
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This redrawing of the boundaries added a constellation to the zodiac. According to the official modern constellation boundaries that all astronomers use, the sun passes through 13 constellations, not 12. The "thirteenth constellation" of the zodiac is Ophiuchus the Serpent Bearer, and the sun is in front of its stars during the first half of December. About one person in twenty is an "Ophiuchus," but few of them know it.
http://www.griffithobs.org/SkyOphiuchus.html
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Ophiuchus The Serpent Bearer
Maggie Kerr (AAT.Dip.Couns.)
As is so often the case, it was an innocent question from a new student in one of my beginners classes which prompted me to answer the old question…Is there actually a 13th Zodiac Sign? Well says Maggie teacher there are two possibilities on this - one is known as Arachne the Spider. This arises from the Druidic calendar containing 13 signs, where Arachne is contained between Taurus and Gemini. In this tradition the Sun enters Arachne on May 16th and leaves it on June 13th. It is said to be the sign of the “Psychic”. If you would like to know more the little book “The Thirteenth Zodiac The Sign of Arachne” by James Vogh Mayflower Books 1979 is most fascinating.

However there is a second option on this thirteenth sign of the Zodiac, which is the one which I find quite fascinating. This is Ophiuchus The Serpent Bearer, and if you remember back a few years ago there was a flurry of media items about this “debate” as to whether we Astrologers (bunch of idiots which we are according to the Astronomers) have been wrong all these millennium using only the 12 signs on the band of the Ecliptic. Well I found this all very interesting at the time, because Ophiuchus is a constellation whose stars cross over into the band of the ecliptic containing late Scorpio, all of Sagittarius, and early Capricorn - and low and behold at the time of said media fuss dear old Pluto was entering the part of Ophiuchus which is in Sagittarius.

Here we have a classic example of how the archetypal influence of the starry firmament above awakens its’ essence within us below - even at the unconscious level of the media! So let’s find out more about why this constellation is so important right now, and leave the debate as to whether it should be the 13th sign up in the air where it should be! After all we may never reconcile the essential difference between the 12 month Solar model and the 13 month Lunar model - they are both perfect within the greater scheme of things. However, there is a part of me which enjoys the sense that right now in our human evolutionary story it is important to dignify the number 13 in a new and fresh light so we may integrate our lunar essence more fully!
CONTINUED:
http://www.universalastrology.com.au/article11.htm
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VERY INTERESTING INFO ON OPHIUCHUS AND THE 13th ZODIAC/SIGN:
http://www.innergies.com/astrology/constellations.html

[Isaiah Mpski]

My GrandFather King always had the liscense plate number MO1313.
He is the one I keep telling everyone was really Quanah Parker who actually lived to be 130.:D
I'm just getting rid of some stress in a healthy way.1 mg of xanax followed by some Dalmane an hour later after watching Nancy Grace and Larry-used to watch Johnny Carson alot - and just a touch of Thorazine.
Oh it can be so good to be a good physician.:D

[willoweyes]

yes, isn't it nice when you get the concoction just right Dr. :)

[Isaiah Mpski]

As is life.
Willow,I think you are underappreciated on many fronts.
I hope you maintain your ability to deal with life's daily disappointments as well as continue to sleep well at night.
I've had quite a time learning to sleep without fear since the twoo hundred ect's and 200 hrs of insulin coma.They started the ordeal 5am sharp everyday.

Dr Son MD,ND,NMD psychiatry in situ