new crop circles

[daniel]

Two that I saw this week - both impressive:

Green Street, nr Avebury, Wiltshire. Reported 6th July.
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2003/greenstreet/greenstreet2003a.html

with an aerial quicktime movie and groundshots

UPDATE

North Down, nr Beckhampton, Wiltshire. Reported 6th July.
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2003/northdown/northdown2003a.html

New aerial shot in better light then the day before and a groundshot.

THE FARMER DAVID SHEPPARD HAS ASKED THAT NO ONE TRESPASSES ON
HIS LAND WITHOUT STRICT PERMISSION OR HE WILL PROSECUTE. FURTHERMORE
PLEASE DO NOT ENTER OR IT WILL BE CUT OUT.
The incredible intricacy within this work with all its complexities
can only be fully appreciated from the air. The setting and positioning
of this outstanding formation at the end of a row of ancient barrows
is simply awe-inspiring.
>From the ground the free flowing twists and roughly laid work
give the impression of what an out of control expressionist artist
might do which in itself conveys a wonderful sense of vitality and
freedom. A masterly work indeed.
For the sake of repeating myself it is only from the air that the
overall concept of this intricate work is revealed in all its wonder.
Truly amazing.
Julian Gibsone

[bonezooth]

two beautiful formations! the first one, the pentagon-based design, seems so timely somehow...i don't know...sometimes i get such a strange feeling when i see photographs of crop circles...
so daniel are you in england and did you see them in person? If so can you say anything about what it felt like to be in and around a real crop circle?

[daniel]

I am over here and did visit both of them the day after they appeared. The first one (circle with eleven rings and pattern) required a long walk down a Roman road. It did feel like there was a strong energy around it - peaceful and benevolent but strong. My two friends and I all lay down silently for half an hour, feeling gently compelled to do so without discussing it. I would say we all felt psychically altered and aware of a powerful and benevolent energy - I know that sounds a bit woolly, but there you have it. Who or whatever made these did a great job. IT was really a gift to visit them.

[Woodpecker]

Nice. The photos are lovely too. It really makes me wonder.

[paul]

very nice.

to arguelles the (first) pentacle design represents the biosphere if i remember correctly.
possibly earth energies (harmonic grid) yr feeling????

daniel..did you notice in which direction/s they were aligned???

[sire_012]

Cymatics (http://www.cymaticsource.com/), the study of wave phenomena, seems like it could be a possible catalyst for these crop circles. experiments have shown that certain tones can generate very ornate geometric patterns (http://fusionanomaly.net/ernstchladni.html) in controlled environments. some sanskrit vowels actually create their written counterpart in powder when run through a tonagraph. is it possible that someone is doing these with subaudible tone generators? or is it possible the planet(?) is emitting vibratory rates and tones that could create these in certain places. almost like the earth sighing or decompressing, or maybe singing or screaming?

fascinating stuff!

[paul]

very interesting..do you know of any similar experiments with vowels from other traditions..native american of islamic, for example???

i guess the "certain places" in this case would be the michael-mary ley line. smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

[daniel]

saw the first 2 yesterday - both very beautiful.

Woodborough Hill, nr Alton Barnes, Wiltshire. Reported 14th July.
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2003/woodborough/woodborough2003a.html

Avebury Trusloe, nr Avebury, Wiltshire. Reported 13th July
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2003/aveburytrusloe/aveburytrusloe2003a.html

The Pilgrims Way, nr Burham, Kent. Reported 12th July.
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2003/burham/burham2003a.html

Howdendyke, nr Howden, Yorkshire. Reported 9th July.
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2003/howden/howden2003a.html

Litchfield, Hampshire. Reported 9th July.

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2003/litchfield2/litchfield2003b.html

Henwood, nr East Meon, Hampshire. Reported 7th July.
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2003/henwood/henwood2003a.html

[php]

here's the site of the people that make them
http://www.circlemakers.org/

[daniel]

Actually I spoke with people from their group, and they admit they have not been in the fields this year. I think at this point they can only be bothered to make their fakes when a corporation is sponsoring them.

However, they certainly have no qualms in sustaining a website that gives the misleading impression they are responsible for the entire thing.

[php]

fair enough!....i just suppose it kind of taints the whole phenomenon, when you know of all these fakers...(even though they admit that it still doesn't answer all the questions...i.e.they've got their terence mckenna links)

It just seems wierd that the majority of the world's crop circles just happens to be in a "few fields around glastonbury"...(i exagerate! but..)

You'd think with all the technology available and the relatively small area that these circles occur, that somebdy somewhere would have been able to capture one in the process of being made.

any other good sites or sources for the pro argument?

anyway, after just finishing 'breaking open....' i'm prepared to believe anything..i feel strangely excited....i can't stop thinking about it!....THANKYOU!

[daniel]

I speculare that there was - and perhaps continues to be - an orchestrated disinformation campaign around the crop circles in England. I watched a black military helicopter hovering and swooping over a crop formation in Wiltshire, and there was no doubt that it was on some kind of mission - yet the goverment denies any interest in the formations. If you read about "Operation Blackbird" in Fred Da Silva's book Secrets in the Fields, it is pretty obvious this was the case. I don't think, however, that most of the "circlemakers" are part of this. I think they have a thoughtless hacker mentality, and they probably feel they are performing some shamanic trickster function. And they are now also cashing out, hanging with rock bands and movie directors, getting corporate contracts, etc.

As for why the phenomenon appears in a small area of England, I think there are several reasons. I don't discount the message that a psychic received, that there are "three dimensional gates" on the Earth - Yucatan, Egypt around the Pyramids, and the Stonehenge/Silbury Hill/Averbury area - and the one in Wiltshire is the one that is "open" right now. I admit I don't know exactly what that means, but it "feels" plausible. Also, England is the "heart of the dragon," the country that unleashed Western Newtonian materialist science and global Imperialism, and it also has deep esoteric traditions that continue to this day. ALso the English have a good attitude about such things - they have an attitude of bemused skepticism that allows them room to study such a phenomenon without becoming hysterical or mad. In the US, either people would have become paranoid and over-the-top about it, or the military would have taken a heavyhanded approach.

I think, as a method of communication from nonhuman intelligences, the crop formations are a beautiful choice, as the images bypass official channels of media and government and are available to everyone via the Internet. The development of the CCs are definitely carefully synched to the development of our technology. As one researcher told me, he feels they are "like a program that is running." I suspect that they are a teaching on the nature of reality, designed specifically for the Western mind.

[Halfglass]

Daniel hey. You seem to believe in alot of stuff. (Just an observation brother.) Anyway, what makes you feel that these circles are from Beyond? I don't have a solid stance on this. I'd like very much for it to be a message or something along those lines, and you must know that I am open to all such ideas as possible--but I need a lead in, a vision, something. I understand how the "fake" circles flood the scene and discredit the more unexplained ones, just like ufos--which I'm starting to take more seriously though I don't know why. There is the fact that my father--who doesn't believe in anything--saw one during his time in the Air-Force, and again recently in Maryland while on a crabbing trip. (He tells my mother who tells me and I have to drag it out of him--but he's a great, perfect witness who is disturbed by what he saw and probably wishes he never did.)

[ August 28, 2003, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: Halfglass ]

[paul]

daniel,yr only seeing black helicopters over crop circles??yr lucky...im getting buzzed by them everytime i sit down to pray or meditate!

halfglass..try using the crop circle designs to meditate..ie recreating them with yr mind (3/4 dimensionally) ...in particular when yr tripping/down at the submolecular level...id love to hear yr, or anyone elses, results

[ August 29, 2003, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: paul ]

[susan]

Has anyone ever "responded" to the circles? For example, gone into a finished one (one assumed to not be by human hands) and added on to it or altered it? It could be like graffiti artists or jazz musicians playing off each other.

[daniel]

Answer to Halfglass above:

It is not really a question of "belief." In fact, this whole notion of belief is so anathema to most modern sophisticatos that it makes it impossible for them even to take the time to seriously consider an extraordinary phenomenon like crop circles (or for that matter, psychedelics). We are so afraid of being conned that we forget how to inquire. I don't "believe" - I study and I try to discriminate. When you deeply study the CCs, you learn amazing things - the subject keeps opening up into different areas. What is the CC phenomenon? To my mind it is a profound teaching on the nature of reality, designed specifically for the Western mind. Part of what needs to be learned is the necessity for us to stretch our minds to the point where we can embrace paradox rather than close down possibilities.

The CCs are deeply shamanic, tricksterish. They also are awakening knowledge of the Neolithic landscape in England, the meaning of Stonehenge and Averbury, Ley Lines, esoteric cosmologies, etc. They also suggest repeatedly the need for us to make an immediate integration of modern Western rational thought and shamanic/spiritual wisdom.

They are also the most beautiful collective art project in modern world history.

Another aspect of the CCs: They are an incredibly psychically responsive phenomenon. They respond to the mindset with which you go into them. Skeptics become more rational, yet ignore the paradoxes that undermine their position. "Believers" reach a point where they deny much human activity in the CCs at all. The CCs support McKenna that the "universe is made of language," it is a subjective phenomenon: Reality becomes the mirror of what you project into it.

[TarNutz]

Here's a thought: has anyone ever tried _drawing_ the circles based on the ratios involved, and then trying to communicate with the whozits on the other end through that?

Just from a sorcery perspective, I've had good results using corporate logos from products, letterhead and business cards to target spells to get this company or that to do what it should. If I copied the logo instead of just stealing one, it should work fine as long as it looks the same.

So, I'd hypothesize that if you want to get in touch with or scry out the hoozits making these puppies (without going directly to the source: mad props, Daniel), it'd be relatively easy to simply draw the crop circles, zonk yourself out in trance, and use whatever form of divination or evokation you prefer. Lots of magickians swear by the "black mirror" for visions... I've found that with the proper mindset and a little spiritual preparation, the "black mirror" could be something as common as a tall glass of Coca-Cola: just set up the circle so its image reflects to your eyes off the surface of the Coke. Make yourself a statement of intent such as: "I want to communicate with the makers of the crop circle" (remember to be specific!), eliminate any repeated letters, and scramble the letters to make a mantra. You need a sound focus for your intent since you're using the visual focus to target (at least I seem to for clarity purposes: I have a hard time reading and listening at the same time, for instance).

Here's hoping someone makes contact. I'd try this myself, but I'd need some screen captures to mull over with my compass, protractor and straightedge, and I wasn't able to right-click steal 'em off the sites posted. Anyone got an FTP download site or maybe a zip file of lots of these things?

Someone was saying that some of the crop circles demonstrated principles of Geometry that we don't even teach. He didn't point 'em out, tho: with the smugness of any good teacher he left it as an exercise for the student. I for one am intrigued.

P-Tar

[daniel]

Lots of psychics and channels have contacted the CC makers - it is difficult to know which ones to believe, but some seem more legitimate than others. I heard of one contact in which the psychic asked the CCmakers what they thought of humans. The answer was that they love us but find us hilarious and bumbling - we are like a Laurel and Hardy sketch to them. They call us "The Masters of Limitation."

[lightnight]

Hey Daniel

this is Katie, we met in Glastonbury with my cousin Jane, after being forced to share a table at the pub...;). I have been back in the US for a few weeks now and have been browsing through your forum. As you are speaking about channeling I am posting below a channeling from Pepper Lewis about the crop circles, that came through in 2000. I came across it this morning. Pepper Lewis is a very reputable channel. I will enclose her detail below. I have not read the whole thing yet, as it is very long, but what i did read did coincide with much of what I perceive. I post the link here for your discernment. Have a great day and keep up the good work!

Katie

*************************************************
http://www.thepeacefulplanet.com/articles.html

go to library- find last article in Archived articles pop up box on Crop Circles

*************************************************
A Channeling on Crop Circles- Interview with Mother Earth by Pepper Lewis.

Just prior to the Celebration of Mother Earth and the Divine Physical in Golden, Colorado on October 6, 2000, Gaia was interviewed by Dr. Simeon Hein, the Director of the Mt. Baldy Institute for Resonant Viewing and Mr. Ron Russell of Midwest Research, both premier crop circle researchers. The following is an edited transcript of that interview:

Mother Earth : Thank you for joining me today. I am pleased that you have come to ask your questions. It is time for the answers to come forth in a clear and concise manner. In order for this to happen your questions must be phrased in this way as well. Your questions must arise out of the natural seeking of the heart and be propelled by the curiosity and the desire of the soul. Having said that I now make myself available to you in any way that you feel is appropriate. We will proceed at a pace that you will set, let us begin.

Question : Thank you. I have come to view the crop circle mystery as having two main parts, the genuine non-human contact and the imitative human artistic practice. Both of these are covert activities, why is this? Why is our contact with other intelligence such as elementals, devic forces and UFO encounters of a covert nature?

Mother Earth : First, why do you perceive that one is more genuine than another? Why do you consider the non-human aspect of this phenomenon to be genuine and the human aspect an imitation? What makes one more perceptually intelligent than the other? Is one more significant to the earth or to humanity? I must also ask why you see this phenomenon as covert when very plainly and in very large scale are beautiful, physical demonstrations placed upon the earth. It would seem to me that the guidance you receive daily from meditation, prayer and other spiritual activities would be considered more covert, for where is the proof that you are even being heard? Although there is little evidence that you are truly being supported by other realms the concept itself is more readily accepted than the crop circle phenomena we are discussing.

The phenomena of crop circles is quite beautiful. It carries a very unique frequency. The crop circles that have been created by off-planet beings carry a specific vibration as do the ones which have had human assistance. One is not less than the other although they are significantly different. One already exists in a state of perfection, the other is perfection in the making. It is the child relating to the parent or the microcosm reflecting the enormity of the macrocosm. Although one can certainly be described as an imitation of the other it is not wrong or less than genuine. This is one of the ways that humanity has always chosen to learn. Humanity has always been fascinated by and attempted to imitate that which has come from the stars. Consciously and subconsciously humanity has seen that which comes from the stars as its parents. Crop circles activity is not covert it is simply misunderstood. Previous questions have not brought the desired results or understandings that those who asked the questions would have liked, that is one of the reasons I have asked you to phrase your questions as specifically as possible.

Crop Circles are a language for the most part, a very beautiful descriptive language. Some of the misunderstanding or misinterpretation of this language is that it is vibrational. It is borne above and upon the symbolism of the art form itself, and art has always been left to the interpretation of the imagination of the perceiver. It has not often been accompanied by the written word or a perceptual instruction manual. The human mind has been trained to separate art and other forms of creativity from science and deductive learning. This is one of the reasons why the questions which would lead to more satisfying answers have not been asked. Does this begin to answer your question as well as offer a broader perspective of this subject?

Question :Yes, thank you. I have been wondering about the language of the crop circles. Is it the particular shapes that create certain frequencies?

Mother Earth : Indeed, yes. The circular patterns for instance create a specific vibration. These patterns offer a vibratory arc. This form of communication is designed to vibrate outward; to reach beyond its apparent physical limitations. It also vibrates toward the center and up from there creating an arc. Arc and arches are doorways, therefore these vibrational doorways are offered as paths to higher learning and the outward vibrational emanations are designed to reach as many beings as possible. These vibrations can easily travel around the globe regardless of their physical location. These circular patterns eventually find energetic matches within the human population, literally vibrating their way into hearts which are open and/or willing to welcome and participate with the vibrational language being offered. It is always by choice, never otherwise. These vibrational patterns meet an integrate with the animal, plant, and mineral kingdoms as well as with many of the ocean dwelling beings though not all of them. The vibrational pattern of this type of crop circle will continue to open hearts; ultimately that is the purpose of all vibrational frequencies that reach the planet at this time and as more crop circles appear these energies will intensify. This intensity brings with it awareness and growth; it opens doors to possibilities and concepts which exist beyond conventionally acceptable ideals and standards.

Knowledge regarding these concepts will become available soon. It will become apparent to many, not just to interested parties such as yourselves. Crop circles contain language, vibration and frequency. The language can be coded and decoded although this aspect of the phenomena will not be available to you yet, perhaps not for another ten years or so.

Question : What can you tell us about the balls of light that we have seen near and in crop formations, especially in southern England?

Mother Earth : The visible orbs of light you describe are energy patterns and emanations created by the most powerful crop formations. The vibrational power of these designs creates an energy field around them which begins to relate to the earth. The force generated by this relationship sometimes created what can be called a bounce, which is an energy fluctuation generated by the electromagnetic frequencies of the earth. These powerful manifestations assist in the stabilization of certain earth frequencies which have become erratic and unstable. They are are of benefit to the planet and also assist those who are visitors from worlds beyond this one where frequencies are significantly different.

Question : Sometimes the local people call these orbs of light, faerie spirits and believe they come out of the woods at night. Are these orbs of light an aspect of the earth’s elemental kingdom?

Mother Earth : No, they are not although this interpretation is not far from the truth. Beings such as faeries which are a part of the elemental realm respond to this same kind of light and energy because the frequency is comfortable to them. Local residents are accustomed to the frequency and light of the elemental realm. It has been a part of their lives and their land for a very long time. It is a natural conclusion on their part to assume that this manifestation was created by a source that they are already familiar with. The reality that the original intelligence that created these emanations may lie elsewhere is not for everyone. These beautiful emanations of light are transparent, invisible and non-existent to all who do not wish to have that experience at this time and that is certainly their choice.

The elemental realm also expresses itself in cycles of energy that appear as spheres of light of various size and proportion. When the personification which long ago was assigned to faeries and other beings of the elemental kingdom is set aside, one can see how easily these beings respond to all sources of intelligence for that is their nature. When intelligence (in this case, the creators of the crop circle) is combined with that which is natural (in this case, the stalks of wheat) the elemental realm will be drawn to the phenomena because it perceives the energy as benevolent and welcoming. When one kind of intelligence interacts equally with another the results are often beneficial as in this case. In order for this to occur there must be an energetic match that includes the land and all forms of intelligence, which includes the beings who make their home nearby. It is important to note that the off-planet beings who are actively creating these designs do not always accomplish their goals as accurately as they would like. This is due to the fact that they are interacting with a humanity that is at various levels of consciousness and experience. It is their intention to match your frequencies so that the coded language of light they bring to you will be compatible with where you find yourselves right now. They also fine tune it so that you will have to stretch for it just a bit. Sometimes this results in a powerful emanation of intelligent coded light and sometimes the result is a very beautiful work of art. Crop circles that lack significant amounts of encodements do not last as long as others.

Mother Earth : It is both. The energy and the intention within the hearts and the minds of those who create the designs is important. What is their intention? Is it to fool others into perceiving the design as having ET origin or simply to recreate what has been shown to them by example? Is it their intention to learn about the technology of the phenomena by recreating it themselves in order to determine frequency, vibration and other encodements? The intention they bring forth will carry a certain energy and vibration in and of itself. Beyond that, what is ultimately brought together will have a vibration of its own as every form of art does. Art has a language that is perceived even if it is not understood and this is no different. In this case, however, the language must first be learned if it is to be understood. Imitation of the original form leads to practice and to eventual understanding. That is how a child learns from a parent. This same form of imitation and practice is employed when one journeys to another country and must learn that language. Perhaps they will pronounce the words incorrectly the first ten times, but by the twelfth time perhaps they will get it right or ask for further assistance.

Those who continue to manifest these beautiful designs knowing that there is language to be discovered will eventually hit upon a design which receives a vibratory answer. This will astound and astonish them. It will bump them to the next level of experience and in this way the coding will be learned. There are, however, very specific parameters and instructions that were put in place by the beings who brought this language to earth, one of these being that humanity must develop at its own pace and level of understanding whenever possible. It is appropriate for humanity to achieve an evolutionary leap and to learn a new language of light, but it must be in accordance with the growth patterns that humanity is able to welcome at this time. These parameters were put in place in order to avoid further tampering with the human species in any way. The beings who are in charge of the instruction process of this language are doing their best to assist you while abiding by the edicts that have been set forth on your behalf. What you sometimes call covert activity is nothing more than this.

Question : Could you suggest which energy frequencies we could study that would gain us the most understanding and benefit the research community and humanity at large? We have been studying magnetics, electrostatics and microwave anomalies within the crop formations. Do you see a clear path that would be beneficial to research?

Mother Earth : The path that will take you to where you would like to already be is not a direct one and there are good reasons for this. The frequency emanated by the crop circles is based upon a crystalline technology that is not yet understood by humanity and not yet a part of the earth. Therefore you cannot study what you do not have and cannot yet create. Humans learn and base their studies upon experience. One experience will generally lead them to another with the eventual outcome being a new form or creation or understanding. Off-planet technologies are not often understood by humans. Most of these have simply been gifted to humanity and you would be surprised to learn just how many cases of this there have been. Unfortunately as you may be aware many of these have been used to further war efforts and/or generate financial gains for certain individuals and organization and in some cases that was the idea all along. The timing regarding the receipt of this technology is dependent upon several decisions that humanity will soon make. Perhaps I must clarify these words and make them more direct. The crystalline technology that gently assists and instructs the fields of wheat that create the beautiful expression and language offered by the crop circles, is the very same technology which is capable of manifesting and directing a source of power great enough to alter the face of the planet and destroying it as well. The decoding of this technology will not available until this choice is no longer considered an option by human beings or any other beings. That day still lies a bit in your future.

Question : Much of the discussion regarding how human crop circles are made have focused upon sound and frequency, which is a technology we do not fully understand yet. Many of the human made formations employ very simple technologies like boards and ropes. Will there be a time when we will understand the higher technological levels of creation?

Mother E : Yes, certainly. There are those who already understand that technology or at the very least carry it within their beingness. There are children and adolescents within your own culture and others who are very wise. Their interests lie beyond boards and ropes as you say. They are interested in assisting the earth in becoming a planet of light capable of supporting and sustaining humanity far into the future. The answers to many of the questions which you pose are within these beings. They will be the ones who ask the appropriate questions which in turn receive the most direct answers. Their desire to know will be pure and simple and their vibration will be recognized by those who will assist them.

Some of these children are descendants or aspects of the ones that I am calling off-planet beings. The word extra-terrestrial or ET is not a favorite of mine. All is terrestrial and all is welcome here upon terra firma, Earth. There is no extra. Humanity often uses the term ET and Alien interchangeably. Aliens of any kind are rarely welcomed by humanity. As long as borders cannot freely be crossed, fences cannot truly be torn down. What humanity desires to have in the form of technological advancement it must first welcome with open arms.

Question : We research the circles in southern England every summer because most events seem to be concentrated there, but crop circles are appearing all over the world. Where should our research take us in the future? Which area of the planet would be most productive to study?

Mother E : This is not a question that can easily be answered. The answer shifts as quickly as the consciousness of humanity shifts. The energies and frequencies of the planet are also shifting rather quickly at this time and this makes it difficult to pinpoint which is the next probable location or set of locations, especially in advance. Many of these designs are manifestations of the moment regardless of how carefully planned and orchestrated they appear to be. The same difficulty would arise in determining the probable location of the next earthquake, do you see? In a matter of speaking the land itself speaks directly to the intelligence at work within these designs. It is a cocreative process and permission is also obtained from devic forces that participate within that land as well as from the owners of that land because it is understood that that these designs will draw quite a bit of attention to these areas at least for a time.

As you say, the occurrences are increasing and this will most likely continue for a time. Rather than give you the current location of the greatest collection of energy and frequency matches, my recommendation would be to place yourself in a frequency vibration that is similar to the off-planet sources of these creations. This can be accomplished easily and you are already closer than you believe to achieving it. It is simply a matter of taking a stance within your being that allows the creative nature within you to be answered by the greater being that you are; your soul. Perhaps your set of instructions will include words to the effect of, "I wish to be placed in the closest proximity within the closest time frame in each possible instance with regards to the creation, design and implementation of the crop circle phenomena. I wish to understand this phenomena to a greater degree than I do today therefore I offer myself as a communicator and a receiver of this crystalline intelligence. I wish to be placed within the circle of candidates who will learn to decode this technology and present it as a gift to humanity. I am open and receptive to this now." Your willingness to be and to do exactly what your words indicate will make it so and you may find yourself present at the unfoldment of the very next phenomena. Eventually what may at first appear to be a coincidental attraction will simply become matter of fact.

Question : I’m wondering if there are different types of crop formations that have different purposes. Some sources have suggested that in some cases the energy may be too strong and inappropriate for people. We like to go into them and play with the energy even if it is powerful or makes us tired in the process. Is it wise to exercise caution as others have indicated or are we correct in assuming it is all right to play and interact with these energies?

ME : The energies emanated by and from the crop circle formations will not affect humanity adversely. Those who could in some way be affected will not place themselves there. Becoming tired after interacting with a new and unfamiliar energy source is not uncommon and is not cause for alarm. Placing oneself within these new energies is a stretch for almost everyone who attempts it, but it is also exactly what brought them there to begin with. It is appropriate that those who have been drawn to this phenomena interact with it, play with it, receive from it and to delight in it even as children do. After all it is brand new upon the planet and who would not want to play with a new toy?

In answer to the second part of your question I will say that there are still beings upon the planet who delight in misleading humanity. These beings desire to create what appear to be very beautiful natural looking crop circles that have an energy which is not as beneficial to the earth or to those who would encounter them. You would find this energy uncomfortable and somewhat disturbing and disruptive to your own codes and patterns. Because these formations will most likely draw at least as much attention as others have, the uncomfortable energy will be carried by the visitors to other areas. The attempt here is to discredit the positive effects of the true formations. These beings have not yet perfected their plan and it is quite possible that they will not be allowed to do so, but they are tinkering with it even as we speak.

Question : Is it fair to say that most of the crop circles are sacred places? Regardless of whether humans make them or interact with them, are they unwittingly participating in the creation of temporary temples?

ME : All of the energies of the earth are sacred, dear one. That which is upon the earth, beneath the surface, above it, and that which is within your heart is sacred to the earth as well. There is not one area or one moment in time that is more sacred than another. There are variations in vibration and energetic structures, as well as differences in ability to express oneself from a standpoint of cocreation and partnership. Do not make the mistake of allowing a structure to become your master or your temple, temporary or permanent. It is an encoded learning experience. It is one piece of the puzzle, perhaps a very interesting piece but nonetheless it is just one piece. The wisdom it contains will interest you and its wisdom will assist you. Beyond that, you will move on to the next interesting piece of wisdom that offers itself to you. It is important that you carry this interest appropriately within your heart.

Question : The crop circles appear by measurement and experience to have a special kind of energy. This is what I meant by describing it as a sacred environment. Can you comment on this?

ME : Crop circles are based upon sacred geometry that exists beyond third dimensional understanding of this concept. Regardless of the context or the measurement that seeks to encapsulate or understand it. It is beyond all human standards of measure or conceptual linear understandings, but just beyond it. That is why it it such a curious phenomena to humanity. It was very far beyond the measure or the understanding of where you presently finds yourselves there would be no interest, do you see? The definition and importance of sacred geometry is already within your reach and you already know that there are many long standing structures upon the planet based upon this concept. The shapes and patterns of these formations are based upon the concepts set forth by sacred geometry which exists at a level of experience far beyond the physical. This information will lead to knowledge that will assist in the purification of the earth and its resources. My own desire that you receive and act upon this knowledge stands with you at this time.

Question : The process that creates the formations bends the plants down to the earth. The visitors who are attracted to them walk onto the fields and push them even further. Can you tell me how the plants feel about all of this? Are they active participants in the process? Do they interact with the intelligence that creates the formations? Do they consider the process a form of violence?

ME : An excellent question. The devic and elemental energies of the planet including my own sentience is in full cooperation and participation with the event whether it is hosted by humanity or off-planet guests. The genetic structure of the plants are recreated, redirected and redistributed with the assistance of the devic forces of the area. It is a welcome event for these beings and no different than play time for them. It is another opportunity for them to interact, participate and assist in awakening humanity.

Is there a lesson in this for the farmers as well? Perhaps that these crops can have different purposes or functions than they may have originally thought?

ME : Indeed. The vibration put forth by the elemental kingdom is beneficial to them and the plants themselves transmit their own unique frequency. The current owners of the lands involved are aware that at least by cosmic standards they do not really own the land, they are it’s stewards and caretakers. These events place an understanding and a frequency within their hearts that allow them a greater understanding of their role here. This frequency fills them with the knowledge that they are doing more than feeding a hungry population that they will most likely not have contact with. Moreover, they are able to meet and greet a great deal more visitors than they would otherwise. Under normal circumstances this may be considered an intrusion, but crop circles have a tendency to create quite abnormal feelings within almost everyone who comes in contact with them.

Question : If a group of researchers, in order to better understand the phenomena, were to make a demonstration crop circle physically by ourselves, what would be a good design using and good geometry that we should consider?

ME : Would you be among those who would be creating the design? You see, what is held within each being as their own truth aligns them with a certain vibrational pattern that is more or less likely to be compatible with certain geometries. This is how many soul groups, soul clusters and soul mates discover one another. It is is the vibrational attraction of complementary geometries; it is an overlay of multi-dimensional patterns that come together, because you are presently viewing these designs with third dimensional eyes you do not see the delicate nuances of these multi-dimensions although you are able to feel and sense them as energy. Again, that is one of the reasons why these designs are created in the third-dimension and on such a large scale. If the designs were offered on paper or canvas for example, even though your third-dimensional eyes would perceive the beautiful image it would nonetheless remain a second dimensional or flat image. Each layer adds a vibration which in turns adds energy. As humanity progresses beyond the third dimension this concept will become more apparent and will fill in many of the blanks. The further understanding of light encoded geometries will alter many things including health and healing which need not be as invasive as it is today.

Q : Thank you. Regarding the placement of the crop pattern on the field, it is my understanding that when it is put down on the field its angle toward magnetic north somehow has an effect on the energy that people experience when they visit the crop circle. If it’s not truly aligned up with magnetic north, say four degrees or so off, it seems to have a peculiar effect which sometimes includes blowing out all of our batteries and causing the electronic gadgets that we bring to malfunction. It also seems to engender a kind of epiphany in those who visit; a sense of enchantment. How can we better facilitate these experiences? Can you share some information with us regarding a particular shape that may prove to be a beneficial experience?

ME : Based upon the interpretation and description that you have just given, the shape that would bring about the desired effect would be a circular labyrinthian pattern; one which flows or moves from the outer to the inner and then back again. Perhaps you could incorporate the symbol of infinity into that pattern to help create that flow. Any pattern that has movement and flow rather an angles such as in a star pattern. The energy created by circular shapes, orbs and spheres will have a beneficial effect upon humanity and especially upon those who would visit these sites.

Regarding the placement of the pattern in relation to magnetic north, this is changing now as you already know, varying by minute aspects of degrees and influenced by the wobble of the earth and other factors. It is more important to lay the pattern out and to create it at a time when there is a greater amount of sun spot activity, solar emissions and other phenomena from the sun. The influence of the sun upon this activity will increase the energy flow which travels within the stalks of wheat. It will also significantly alter the vibrational relationship of the pattern, amplifying and energizing it. It may also bring about a quickening to the decoding process. The relationship between the sun and these patterns must be understood as well. Your ancient civilizations understood this importance and placed a great deal of importance upon it even worshiping it at different times. This was not done for lack of another deity, I assure you. This is an important key for you to remember. the crop circle phenomena was brought to earth by off-planet beings, therefore many of your answers lie there as well. Look to the sun and to other solar phenomena for further understanding of the energy and power behind this phenomena.

Q : I would like to ask about the malfunctions in batteries, cameras and other equipment. Is it due in part to the fact that the crop formation is like an interdimensional gateway?

ME : Indeed, excellent. It is beyond a gateway really. The crystalline technology described earlier has the effect of bringing the future to you now even though you cannot quite grasp it yet. From a linear perspective the future is glancing backward even as you are peering into your future and both the future and the past are meeting here in the present. Your batteries, regardless of the source which powers them, are somewhat in opposition to the crystalline technology of the future just as fossil fuels are in opposition to your environment. This makes the environment rebel, do you see? The fluctuations and anomalies in your equipment will begin to balance themselves out and the kinks that arise in the operation of the equipment will as well.

Question : Once the formation is in place, do some of the energetic effects create links to other dimensions? Is that part of what people are experiencing with regards to changes in time?

Mother Earth : Some have this experience and some do not. Be careful as you pose your questions and in your research to take into consideration that there are many different kinds of people upon the planet today. Some are of earth origins and some are not. Their experience will depend upon their own frequency and this is also influenced by their origin. One being may very well be carried temporarily into another dimension or density and cross one or more gateways as you have theorized, while another upon walking the perimeter of the same formation may decide that they are not able to enter. They will not see the doorway or they may know in advance that it is not for them to pass through there. They will instinctively stay away although they may not even know why at the time.

*********************************
To be continued....very long channeling, does not fit in just one post

[lightnight]

Apologies for taking up so much space...here's the next bit...unfortunately there is no direct URL link to this article, so I thought it appropriate to post the full wack here, despite it being so long....

here it goes...

************************************************

Q : What practices or rituals would be beneficial for us to do prior to crafting a formation so that the best effects are felt by all?

ME : Excellent. Place yourself in as much balance as possible within your own beingness as you are able to do at the time. You will decide if this requires a meditative intercession or not. You can certainly be at peace with yourself and in the moment without this experience if that is your choice. The balance you feel will vary depending upon the physical location you have chosen for your group experience and it will also vary as the group of beings you choose to work with shifts and changes. Some of your experiences will be more harmonious than others. When your frequencies begin to balance in and upon the time and place you find yourself, send as aspect of yourself into the future to find and bring back the most appropriate frequency to add to your present time. This will assist in integrating your whole being rather the part of you that would interact with your group and the formation. You will decide the time and place of the future moment you choose, it may be upon the earth, upon another world or somewhere in-between. This is not difficult to do and there are aspects within you that already know how to do it and have done it for you before. Your very interest in this subject matter indicates that there are aspects within you that have already laid the foundation and made preparations for your further experiences. As you send this aspect or awareness to seek this frequency you may also perceive other nuances of the phenomena such as encodements of geometric light. It may appear to you as a language of light and you may find that you temporarily understand this language because you have moved into your own future time within a place of balanced awareness.

Stay in that awareness as long as your beingness will deem appropriate for you. Allow yourself to expand so that you will be able to receive as much of this frequency and this language as possible. You will see that as you shift your awareness within your beingness just as you shift your weight upon the physical plane, you will find the most comfortable place within you to accept and receive this energy. Perhaps it will be in this dimension or perhaps it will be in another; this density or another.

As it currently remains nameless we will call this energy or frequency simply, of the future. Remembering to hold this frequency in the time, place, space or location you have chosen, bring it back with you into the present time. Included in what you have brought with you will be an understanding which did not previously exist and this understanding will take you to your next level of experience within the crop circle phenomena. If you truly desire to understand and decode this subject to the extent that it appears that you do, then you must begin to move forward and backward in time. You must begin to experience the past, the present and the future as one. Release all concepts of linear time. Move in a circular pattern rather than a linear one. shift, change and rearrange your own patterns to accommodate new paradigms and frequencies. If you do this you will begin to understand this language of light, the geometries that have created it and possibly even the crystalline intelligence that guides it. All that has been offered to you here will one day be discovered, confirmed and embraced by others, why wait until then when you can begin to have these experiences today?

Q: When we discuss crop formations we usually assume that we are discussing those that appear in grain. Do these energies also exist in other places on the earth that we are not currently aware of, perhaps in other cultures or environments? Are there other areas that we should be studying?

M E : This particular energy has aligned itself with this crop, or grain as you call it. One of the reasons for this is that this grain is common to many parts of the world and is consumed on a mass scale as well. It is still plentiful upon the earth. It is part of your history and it is a part of the heredity of the earth. It has been upon the planet for a long, long time. Currently there is no other medium that meets the required criteria set forth by the intelligence that has brought you this conceptual evidence. This grain and the fields that surround it are an ideal match in energy and frequency. This does not mean that a more appropriate source cannot be discovered tomorrow, but this is the one that has been chosen for this time period.

Q : Do you, as the sentience of the earth, desire a certain project or aspect of our research to be performed that would be most beneficial? What more can we do for the environment in the context of the research of these formations to better serve you?

ME : Allow a matrix that is already within you to continue to expand. This matrix will allow you to understand that you already have as much knowledge within you as do these beings who place these crop circles upon the lands of the earth. Your current concepts of linear time contribute to your beliefs that others are more intellectually and technologically ahead of you. You see the answers to your questions existing in the future and not the present. When your attitudes regarding this shift, your answers will appear in the moment and they will be given to you by your own consciousness and your brothers and sisters will nod in agreement for their own thoughts will mirror and confirm your own. When this occurs the environments will be cleansed. Humanity will yet find that it is capable of doing more than it currently believes, but it must discover that for itself first. This, in addition to all that has already been said is yet another reason why your off-planet friends have not manifested for you or given you more than clues to work with and decipher for yourselves. Humanity has been too quick in the past to hand over the reigns to others and give their power away. This is not to happen again.

Humanity desires contact with off-planet beings and fears it at the same time. You desire to be a part of your government and its decisions but you fear that as well. You wish to claim your sovereignty but fear that it will be taken from you. Your fears tell you that if your government does not take it, the off-planet ones will. When your desires to know and not to know come into balance, all of the answers you currently seek will become apparent. It will be as if they have been on the tip of your tongue all along.

There are many different points of view within the crop circle research community about how crop circles are made and what they are about. Is it necessary or important for us to be more harmonious as a group in order to have information about this phenomena progress more quickly and create the greatest benefit for the planet? Currently many of us work on our own or work with those who are aligned with our particular viewpoint.

At this time you will not find the harmonious attitude that will one day be present. It is a time of exploration and discovery. Long ago humanity was also in a hurry to discover the New World as it was called then. They craved fame, fortune and land and were in a hurry to claim it for themselves and for their countries. They shared little with one another and had little in common other than similar goals. This phenomena brings about similar feelings and instincts within researchers. You are also explorers and adventurers facing a new and different frontier, is that not so? The desire to be among the first to explore and understand this frontier does not allow a harmonious nature or camaraderie to exist at this time. To a certain degree, if that harmonious structure were to exist a measure of complacency would also descend upon this group of beings and you would not challenge one another to pursue your dreams as you do now. Though it may not always seem so, you are assisting one another more than you know and the entire group is being served in the process.

Q : Where can we find funding for our various projects? This endeavor is very time consuming and is not of commercial interest. A lot of money goes out and does not come back in. Can you assist us in opening a pathway or direct us to a source of funding for this work?

ME : Interestingly enough the pathway to the funding is also the same pathway that leads to your heart. Within your heart is the desire to know, to discover and to uncover the truths we have been discussing. That same desire will create the funding for you. Perhaps you will perceive this answer as vague, but it is not, it is quite powerful. The desire to understand this phenomena and to give it as your gift to the world is very noble. Your desire to have an impact upon the earth’s environments is also quite noble. In order to achieve these nobilities you must allow your heart to expand even as the energies of the crop circles expand. Place yourself in the midst of one of these formations and in that place open your heart and ask to receive what you truly desire. If it funding you seek then formulate your words accordingly, "I ask to receive funding and abundance that exists beyond human measure or expectation so that I may continue to pursue this subject which is near and dear to my heart. Here is my passion, my strength and my desire. I wish to be supported by the earth and by the universe in these discoveries. I call this and more to myself in this time and in this place. I am in understanding that it is being brought to me now." Do you feel the power of these words as they are put forth on your behalf? This is how you are to call forth what you need and desire. Do not kneel as a beggar who hopes that a few bread crumbs will fall his way. You are not a supplicant at this point, but a master, an artist, a philosopher, a historian, and most currently a researcher who has desires that wish to be fulfilled. As such you are entitled to the abundance and to the requirements that will fulfill your desires. There is great power in asking in this way, but also in the knowing and in the expectation that you will receive what it is that you desire to have. Your truth must be that it is right and just for you to have this, and this truth exists beyond a hope that you may receive a grant or another form of funding. You have come to the earth to experience the fulfillment of your desires, if that fulfillment includes submersing yourself into this subject matter, so be it.

Beyond that, you may find that your corporate and governmental structures that do issue grants and funding may be more willing to assist you in your endeavors that you may at first believe. In their own foolishness, if they can keep you very interested in uncovering what they perceive as very little truth over a very long period of time, they can continue their own activities which are truly covert in nature. You will find that there are more covert projects and forms of intelligence within your own structures than within those which are called off-planet.

QUESTION : Is the crystalline technology involved in the crop formations future knowledge that has been fused with ancient knowledge that we are discovering now for the first time, or can we find all of this information by studying our own ancient civilizations?

MOTHER EARTH : You will find certain keys in your ancient past, but you see, even upon Atlantis which was technologically rich and superior to other contemporary cultures, crystalline technology was only beginning to be understood. Their understanding of crystalline intelligence was limited to its expression through power. The crystalline intelligence that creates these beautiful formations does not depend upon a power structure for its strength. That is one of the reasons that it is expressed as a form of art and is also why it receives the full cooperation of the elemental kingdom and why the the plants choose to participate with it. They would not do so if this intelligence was not aligned with humanity at this time. They are at choice in the matter just as they are at choice in whether or not they will continue to participate in the production of narcotic drugs. The plants used in the production of these chemical drugs already do not have the same effects they once had because the devic intelligence behind these plants has withdrawn its support of the ingredients used in the production of these narcotics. They simply will not cooperate and soon these ingredients will become inert. The pharmaceutical industry is already attempting to artificially produce substitutes in an effort to introduce them into your society and others. These are already being test-marketed in third world countries which have become the inadvertent laboratories of the world. Devic intelligence will only work with that which is in agreement with the sentience and the consciousness of the earth.

The art, structure, frequency, vibration, and language of this crystalline technology is located one small dimensional jump from where you are today. It is almost parallel to you now, so close that you could almost reach your hand into it and pull it to you. That is how close you are to understanding this intelligence.

Q : This universe that you speak of, are there other beings and life forms that we will meet and interact with in the near future as well?

ME : Some may find interest in that contact, but for the most it is only the crystalline intelligence that is of importance in this case. You will find contact with other forms of intelligence much more interesting. The crystalline technology is of the future but it is very accessible as well. Its understanding will come about shortly. Its path in relation to the earth has created an arc, therefore, it has been a part of your past and your future as well. Its cycle brings it about at a time when the consciousness of the planet is almost able to receive it and that time is now.

Q : Does this relate to what we call zero-point energy, the energy that exists in the vacuum of empty space?

ME : Only to a certain degree. The crystalline technology is available within this zero-point but it is beyond that as well.

Commentator : I have no further questions. Thank you. We are very appreciative of your efforts to bring us some greater understanding regarding this subject.

MOTHER EARTH via Pepper Lewis : It has been my desire as well to provide as many facts as can be understood at this time and to share them with you so that you will make them available to others. If you continue along this path and by using your own discernment you will eventually encounter at least two other beings from another world who will also assist you with information and knowledge that you may wish to have if you will be open to receiving it. Perhaps we will discuss these beings at another time after you have had time to review this material and explore the subject a bit further. It is a great pleasure to have met you both.

And so we say goodbye for now.
With Love,
Mother Earth

© 2003 Pepper Lewis and The Peaceful Planet. www.thepeacefulplanet.com (http://www.thepeacefulplanet.com) All of the information presented is for your reading and enjoyment. It can be shared in whole or in part with others who may find it of value as long as it is for personal use. In so doing, we ask that you always include the copyright notice located at the bottom of each document. This ensures our ability to make this information available to those who do not have access to the Internet. All other reprints including electronic transmissions designed for commercial use must receive permission from the author. Publications and websites interested in carrying this information as monthly columns or special features are encouraged to do so. If the material must be shortened in length, please clearly state that it is an edited version and refer the readers to the original full-length version. Additional questions should be directed to (818) 713-1966 or by email to: peaceful.planet@earthlink.net.
_________________

Pepper Lewis is a natural intuitive, a gifted channel and a recognized writer, speaker and teacher of metaphysics. The unique and distinctive channeled messages brought forth by Pepper have become favorites of readers all over the world. Most popular are the featured articles authored by the sentience of our planet, Mother Earth, affectionately known as Gaia. These messages frequently appear in a variety of publications including, Sedona Journal of Emergence. They are also a favorite with many websites and news groups. Pepper is frequently featured on radio and Internet broadcasts including, The Great Shift, with Fred Sterling. Pepper is also the founder of The Peaceful Planet, an organization dedicated to relating to our environment and the world around us in a way that embraces and projects balance, integrity, peace and harmony. The Peaceful Planet offers spiritually grounded and inspirational products and services designed to empower and assist us in moving through these critical times with grace rather than confusion.

[bcf]

has anyone checked out the three crop circles that appeared in Northern California in July...I don't have any specific information about them, just wanted the community to know that they happened....

[daniel]

For me, the Cal CCs were amusingly synchronistic. I was in the UK studying the crop circles, then went on a three day trip to SF for a conference. I arrive in SF, and crop circles are on the cover of the Chronicle... a long article debunking them, showing how anyone could do them with boards and string, and suggesting three local teenagers were responsible. Deja vu all over again!

[Proteus]

So where, exactly where they discovered? This about sums up my experience with them so far; i'm eager to explore one, but have yet to be at the right place at the right time. i was even in Northern CA in July, driving in a car by myself with time to kill no less. Guess it's not my time yet.

[bcf]

Regarding the N. CA circles...one was in Vacaville and am not sure re location of the other two...there was a brief TV news thing about them and local crop circle researchers are working on them in conjunction with scientists on the east coast.
Another question: there's loads of stuff written on crop circles, much of it dreadful. Am wondering for any recommendations the best, least credulous material. Has anyone read Freddy Silva's Secrets in the Fields and if so, do you recommend it? He gave a lecture and slide presentation 9/20 at the Berkeley Psychic Institute and I was not enormously impressed...would really appreciate guidance re what to read...thanks...

[daniel]

Da Silva's book has lots of info but lacks nuance somehow and his egotism kind of ruins it. Still it is worth a read. I quite enjoyed The Deepening Complexity of Crop Circles by Eltjo Hasselhof.

[Magnus_Grey]

I'm pretty sure I saw a discovery chanel special on this. Arn't the crop circles a hoax made by clevar artists who like to drag logs?

[PeoplesMind]

Hey Look What I found!!! People have actually CONFESSED to making Crop Circles! See for yourself... and im sure they can make you one too :

http://www.circlemakers.org/

peace,
Nitin

[sire_012]

so say that human hands have made all the crop circles... does this invalidate their importance? in my mind i'm far more elated to find this is human craftwork (which the jury is still out on), it seems to be taking graffitti art to a whole new vital level, manifesting an artform that acts to elevate conciousness and imagination to a level that invigorates human potential and raises some amazing questions. its not every day you find art that can do that...

[ September 26, 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: sire_012 ]

[daniel]

"When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me."

Assume from one slick Website that an entire 30 year phenomenon is simply a "hoax."

Don't do your own research.

Don't inquire.

Don't discriminate.

Feel smug.

Get nowhere.

Lose.

[Magnus_Grey]

>"When you assume, you make an ass out of you and >me."

Again Daniel, your insight and razor intelect are the highlight of my day? Did the aliens teach you that witty line?

>Assume from one slick Website that an entire 30 >year phenomenon is simply a "hoax."

No, there are dozens of websites, many books, and a few good documntaries to boot. If your are assuming that there is not some solid eveidance out there then your making the assumptions pal. What does that make you again? I forget.

>Don't do your own research.

Lol, I just did, have you?

>Don't inquire.

Yes, your policy of blind faith makes much more sense.

>Don't discriminate.

I don't seem to be the one with that problem. Are you claimnng to have compleling evidance that the cricles are extra-terestrial in nature? If so I'd like to see you put your money where your mouth is for once, in stead of these empty and childish insults for a responce.

Feel smug.

I don't feel smug. Then again I'm not insulting you for your beliefs. I think there is a call for you on line 1, somehting about a kettle you called black.

>Get nowhere.

Wow, now you seem to be getting personal Daniel. Can't handle someone who does not agree with your beleifs?

>Lose.

Ha, go on and believe in leprichans and pots of gold. I'll still be laughing and spending my money on Jan 1 2012, so we will see who gets where by when. Good luck, try not to be so defensive.

[Proteus]

Geez Magnus: For a guy that came to the BOTH list for help with his recovery from heroin addiction, you sure seem certain of everything. How's that certainty been working out for you so far? Your life good? Happy & healthy relationships? You in touch with a truth that nourishes you through the dark times? You in a seamless flow with what's happening in each moment?

If not, join the BOTH crowd. We're all seekers who are certain only of how difficult it is to know anything for certain until you experience it for yourself. And, even then...

i'm not saying you have to chuck your reason and believe every wild and crazy thing you read or hear, but you might consider whether or not someone (like Daniel) who has stood in several crop circles actually has a perspective on the subject that your text-bound research on the subject hasn't made available to you.

i joined this list 9 months ago & was convinced (based on what i couldn't tell you) that crop circles are a hoax, but then i actually started reading about them, looking at various websites, comparing the arguments of the debunkers with the true believers. Now i'm willing to acknowledge that maybe--just maybe--there's something going on in the world that i don't know about.

Besides, if you think the rope and boards explanation is convincing, then you really haven't done the research you claim to have done--at least you haven't done so with a true researcher's openess to the full body of evidence. For one thing, there are just too goddamn many crop circles and too few arrests for vandalism and trespassing for the "couple of guys with rope and boards" explanation to wash.

Then there's the immense size and complexity of many designs. From what God-like vantage does someone standing in a flat wheatfield oversee a complex crop circle design that is 600 feet long and 50 yards wide? How do they do it in the dark? Assuming that one could plan out on paper a design like the famous Whitfield Hill "Grid Square" (1997), by what means were 28 X 25 perfectly parallel lines laid down in a perfect square? And how was a a completely perfect circle of flattened wheat measuring 120 feet across traced around the 700 little squares of unflattened wheat in the space of a few hours in the dark? Nevermind that the the fact that the numbers of lines and grid-squares reference the location and dimensions of the Great Pyramid; nevermind that the grid square is an essential part of esoteric mathematics and magick. Hell, forget about complex designs, how do you create perfect circles in a field without driving a post into the center of the design to orient those working the boards and ropes at the perimeter? Ever try to mow a straight line with your mower? Now imagine doing it in the dark without erring so much as an inch from plumb. Ropes & boards? Crop circles are proved fakes by t.v. documentarians? Yeah, o.k.--and there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Not saying i know what's making these designs, just saying that being skeptical of claims that you don't believe anyway isn't honest inquiry. If you're going to play the disbelieving game properly, you need to be skeptical of all claims and apply the same standards of proof and evidence to them.

[Magnus_Grey]

>Geez Magnus: For a guy that came to the BOTH >list for help with his recovery from heroin >addiction, you sure seem certain of everything.

I had a specific medical question with regards to ibogane, which was never satisfactorally awnsered. This does not mean I am ignorant about drugs in general.

> How's that certainty been working out for you

My certainty? I advise a healthy policy of doubt. Your the one who has faith in these "mystic" occurances. I mean, sure it could be aliens, but is it really very likely?

> so far? Your life good? Happy & healthy >relationships? You in touch with a truth that >nourishes you through the dark times? You in a >seamless flow with what's happening in each >moment?

Yes, Yes, I certainly seem to be, and I try my best. No ones life is perfect, I better every day.

>If not, join the BOTH crowd. We're all seekers >who are certain only of how difficult it is to >know anything for certain until you experience >it for yourself. And, even then...

What does this have to do with people admiting to creating ctop cirles?

>i'm not saying you have to chuck your reason and >believe every wild and crazy thing you read or >hear, but you might consider whether or not >someone (like Daniel) who has stood in several >crop circles actually has a perspective on the >subject that your text-bound research on the >subject hasn't made available to you.

Lol, I have had plenty of "mystical" experiances. I do not believe this makes me in any way special, nor do I take my experiances litterally. Standing in front of a crop circle does not make you more knowlegeable about their origins. Daniel is not a guru, as I am sure he will admit.

>i joined this list 9 months ago & was convinced (based on what i couldn't tell you) that crop >circles are a hoax, but then i actually started >reading about them, looking at various websites, >comparing the arguments of the debunkers with >the true believers. Now i'm willing to >acknowledge that maybe--just maybe--there's >something going on in the world that i don't >know about.

Do you really think extra terestral beings would travel thousands of light years just to confuse the hell of of farmers and birds?

>Besides, if you think the rope and boards >explanation is convincing,

I watched them make a pretty convincing one on TV that way, and I said dragging logs anyway, im sure there are other techniques.

>then you really haven't done the research you >claim to have done--at least you haven't done so >with a true researcher's openess to the full >body of evidence. For one thing, there are just >too goddamn many crop circles and too few >arrests for vandalism and trespassing for >the "couple of guys with rope and boards" >explanation to wash.

A couple of guys? I'm sure there are hundreds of others world wide who find this hoax as funny as I do. If I had time, I would go make a few myself. Do you really think cornfields are heavily patrolled?

>Then there's the immense size and complexity of >many designs. From what God-like vantage does >someone standing in a flat wheatfield oversee a >complex crop circle design that is 600 feet long >and 50 yards wide?

Basic mathematics and a little planning.

>How do they do it in the dark?

Lots of planning and a little practice I assume. People took great time for some of these things and I admire them for it.

>Assuming that one could plan out on paper a >design like the famous Whitfield Hill "Grid >Square" (1997), by what means were 28 X 25 >perfectly parallel lines laid down in a perfect >square? And how was a a completely perfect >circle of flattened wheat measuring 120 feet >across traced around the 700 little squares of >unflattened wheat in the space of a few hours in >the dark?

How did we build a rocket that shot a man to the moon? Or an international freeway system?
>
> Nevermind that the the fact that the numbers of >lines and grid-squares reference the location >and dimensions of the Great Pyramid; nevermind >that the grid square is an essential part of >esoteric mathematics and magick.

Lol magick is just a system for self change, dont you know that?

> Hell, forget about complex designs, how do you >create perfect circles in a field without >driving a post into the center of the design to >orient those working the boards and ropes at the >perimeter? Ever try to mow a straight line with >your mower? Now imagine doing it in the dark >without erring so much as an inch from plumb. >Ropes & boards? Crop circles are proved fakes by >t.v. documentarians? Yeah, o.k.--and there were >weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Lol I am sure there is not a massive government consipricy to prevent the truth of crop cicles from being known.

>Not saying i know what's making these designs, >just saying that being skeptical of claims that >you don't believe anyway isn't honest inquiry. >If you're going to play the disbelieving game >properly, you need to be skeptical of all claims >and apply the same standards of proof and >evidence to them.

Fine, lets assume that they are done by aliens. What mystical communication is relayed by circles on the ground? And if you tell me its some sort of magickal symbolism, you obviously are not much of a magician. I thinks aliens are out there, I just give them more credit for their ability to make meaninfull communication.

[Rob P]

Whoa Magnum Gray-
No offense (not too much anyway),
but you seem like someone trying to pick a fight
in a bar because someone looked at you the wrong way!
Dissed?! That'll get you nowhere in the search for truth.

Of course I suspect you won't see it that way.

I understand Daniel's point about making assumptions,
and whether or not a crop circle is made by a man or
by an ET is way beyond the point of your counterattack!

Why take things so personally...??

[PeoplesMind]

Ah back on topic....

The very essence of the arugement is, are crop circles made by Aliens/other beings, or are they made by Humans?

I think it was very stupid of Daniel to present an arguement saying to do research, making the assumption that i had not done research on crop circles. My comment was scarcastic at it's highest level of value and should be treated as such.

I personally find it amazing that "croppies" (doing thier "unbiased" interviews LOL!) and other groups tend to study these things. They are a relativly new concept (in the short history of man--the 1600's is a short time). We know that SOME crop circles are manmade. The media (which is never to be fully trusted) portrays the whole phenomenon as pranksters and hoaxers, which may or may not be correct. (ie the group in England which makes crop circles for $2k a person working/night)

The serious attention was just recently given to this, in the 70's or 80's i beleive (the beggining of the "croppies" movement) I find it quite odd that until the media publicized this event, the number was quite low and the designs were alaways circular (but after the media publicized this, the phenonom occured abotu 3x as often, and lines, squares, and pictograms started to appear!). Another thing is that over time the size of crop circles have tended to increase, coincidence once again that the media had publicized crop circles, and only then did the sizes grow?

Yes, some crop circles are 'different' in that they are bent instead of broken, and these the most likly to be created by non-humans. I beleive that it is an intense heat that allows people to bend this wihtout breaking it (hence the lightning thorey), and when they re-harden they stay in position wihtout damage. Now, mind you this is not hard to replicate. I think researchers will be able to replicate these "authentic" crop circles using microwaves, or infared sound.

As for the other anomalies, stanger things have happened. I think that it is possible to re-create crop circles (exactly, in the oavl shape and all), with the proper equipement and skills.

Hence, my conclusion that crop circles are man-made.

peace,
Nitin

[Magnus_Grey]

"When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me."
Don't do your own research.
Don't inquire.
Don't discriminate.
Feel smug.
Get nowhere.
Lose."

"Geez Magnus: For a guy that came to the BOTH list for help with his recovery from heroin addiction, you sure seem certain of everything. How's that certainty been working out for you so far? Your life good? Happy & healthy relationships? You in touch with a truth that nourishes you through the dark times? You in a seamless flow with what's happening in each moment?"

>Whoa Magnum Gray-
>No offense (not too much anyway),

So are you trying to pick a fight? I seem to be defending myself against personal attacks for my beleifs. I'm feeling a little discriminated against.

>but you seem like someone trying to pick a fight
>in a bar because someone looked at you the wrong >way!

Lol, two people made some pretty personal comments to me, why arn't you chiding daniel for picking a fight. It's like you people are a cult or something. Thank god for walkaway and Nitin, whomeout with I would feel persecuited.

>Dissed?! That'll get you nowhere in the search >for truth.

Yes, Daniels and others disses will get me no where in my search fro truth. I do think they are both childish and funny, whether or not your willing to admit to either.

>Of course I suspect you won't see it that way.

I'm not sure exactically what you are talking about.

>I understand Daniel's point about making >assumptions,

but you are unable to grasp my points? I smell favoritism.

>and whether or not a crop circle is made by a >man or by an ET is way beyond the point of your >counterattack!

At least you finally admit I was attacked first.

>Why take things so personally...??

I'm not, despite the personal nature of things said. I dont think the others need you to explain there position to them.

[daniel]

Can't go too deep into this again right now... it will be in my next book.

The entire crop circle phenomenon, taken as a whole, is a profound teaching on the nature of reality, geared specifically for the Western mind. It has many different aspects to it. It revives awareness of the Neolithic culture, and their deep awareness of the relationship of our Gaian Ark to its fellow travelers in the cosmosphere. It also carefully and repeatedly utilizes images from the Western mystery traditions such as the "Squared Circle," symbolizing the union or integration of Heaven (Circle) and Earth (Square). It points toward the necessity of integration between shamanic and modern scientific ways of knowing and being. When you go deep into investigating the phenomenon, you realize it is not possibly in any way simply a "hoax." If it was only a vast collective and anonymous coordination, it would be the greatest collective aesthetic manifestation on the planet. But is much more than than. You have to go deep into the particulars to appreciate the subtlety of the teachings.

One aspect of the teaching is about tricksterism, indeterminacy, learning how to embrace paradox and inbetweenness without collapsing the quantum event back to a wave or particle. This goes entirely against the modern Western mindset, which demands clarity and unambiguous answers. The indeterminacy goes very deep into this phenomenon - it is literally insoluble. Intentionally so.

"2012" is definitely a subtheme, subtly hinted at. There are many formations using ropes, cord, Moebious Strips, etc., and these I take to be hints about the nature of time being something entirely different than we currently think.

One lesson is to avoid generalities and abstractions and go deep into particularities. Once again, check out Voices of the First Day. Two quotes:

"Aboriginals do not separate qualities from the physical or living entites that express, embody, or carry those qualities. Their thought patterns are consistent with the reality of the physcial world in which there is no quality that is not generated by a substance or thing."

"Our language has induced in us the belief that qualities are separable from their physical expression in a living world."

Certain Aboriginal tribes have more than 50 words to describe the shape of leaves. The magic of reality lies in the particular, not the generalization. It is generalizations with which the media and our government try to murder us or banalize everything.

[Magnus_Grey]

>Can't go too deep into this again right now... >it will be in my next book.

Well, I don't see how discussing has anything to do with that, but it's good you have plans.

>The entire crop circle phenomenon, taken as a >whole, is a profound teaching on the nature of >reality, geared specifically for the Western >mind.

Really, sounds interesting. I wish you could be more specific.

> It has many different aspects to it. It revives >awareness of the Neolithic culture, and their >deep awareness of the relationship of our Gaian >Ark to its fellow travelers in the cosmosphere.

How does it do this. I admit that pranks which temporaroly get others to believe in the impossable can be healing for them. But just as many people seem to think the crop circle were made by Nazi spies as aliens.

>It also carefully and repeatedly utilizes images >from the Western mystery traditions such as >the "Squared Circle," symbolizing the union or >integration of Heaven (Circle) and Earth >(Square).

This may be true. Many such symbols are simple geometrically and visualy pleasing to the eye. Do you really think magick can be infused into symbols?

> It points toward the necessity of integration >between shamanic and modern scientific ways of >knowing and being.

Really. The circles prove that integration is nesesary? What led you to this interpertation, I am genually curious?

>When you go deep into investigating the >phenomenon, you realize it is not possibly in >any way simply a "hoax." If it was only a vast >collective and anonymous coordination, it would >be the greatest collective aesthetic >manifestation on the planet.

It's not only a hoax. And I think that building houses and cathedrals and freways are a porfound manifestation of a "collective aesthetic" and I doubt that there cooperation is ananomous, I am sure that many of them do in fact know each other. Are you suggesting that man could not have made these markings?

>But is much more than than. You have to go deep >into the particulars to appreciate the subtlety >of the teachings.

Ok.

>One aspect of the teaching is about >tricksterism, indeterminacy, learning how to >embrace paradox and inbetweenness without >collapsing the quantum event back to a wave or >particle.

I'm not entirly sure what you just said. But tricksterism sounds like it requires a "hoax".

> This goes entirely against the modern Western >mindset, which demands clarity and unambiguous >answers.

You are obviously not terrably familier with quantum physics and wave mechanics.

> The indeterminacy goes very deep into this >phenomenon - it is literally insoluble. >Intentionally so.

Intentional, sure. Unsouluable, I dount that. Although that is an easy position to claim, when you admitedly dont know the answers.

>"2012" is definitely a subtheme, subtly hinted >at. T

What specificlally about the lines and cicles translates to 2012?

>There are many formations using ropes, cord, >Moebious Strips, etc., and these I take to be >hints about the nature of time being something >entirely different than we currently think.

As all of the concepts you just mentioned are human, I dont see where the alien logic comes into play myself.

>One lesson is to avoid generalities and >abstractions and go deep into particularities. >Once again, check out Voices of the First Day. >Two quotes:

I wish you would avoid generalities and abstractions a little more skillfully. No offence intended.

>"Aboriginals do not separate qualities from the >physical or living entites that express, embody, >or carry those qualities. Their thought patterns >are consistent with the reality of the physcial >world in which there is no quality that is not >generated by a substance or thing."

Good for them. What does this have to do with rural farmers?

>"Our language has induced in us the belief that >qualities are separable from their physical >expression in a living world."

I agree with this statement. I do not think it dirrectly applies in any sense.

>Certain Aboriginal tribes have more than 50 >words to describe the shape of leaves.

Eskimo's have over 50 words to describe snow, I know over 50 words to describe the shape of automobiles. I would say that language is relative to environment, would'nt you?

>The magic of reality lies in the particular, not >the generalization.

That is ironically a fairly general thing to say.

>It is generalizations with which the media and >our government try to murder us or banalize >everything.

Ok. Personally I still dont see the evidance for aliens. Maybe it's just me.

[daniel]

did i mention aliens?

[Magnus_Grey]

I'm not just talking about yout viwes Daniel, I'm talking to the group. But since you mention it, do you personally think the crop circels are human, alien, or other in origin? Also I brought up a lot of other points which you seem to have missed addressing.

[ September 29, 2003, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Magnus_Grey ]