EVOLVER BLOG Responce

[sidecross]

I could not even post this under the topic EVOLVER BLOG!

‘…We plan to pay out a certain proportion of daily advertising revenue to contributers (the percentage will depend on our overhead and marketing costs, etc.)…’

Fuck that whole idea!

I do not write here to make money!

Evolver is becoming part of the problem of advertising and making money.

[Humming]

sidecross, do you not use money in your daily life?

If you don't, please share the secret of your survival with me. Living without being tied to the economic system has been a dream of mine for a long time.

[sidecross]

If making money is of such importance why not make The Evolver Project part of a business school or other money making web site?

Yes, I use money and it has been a problem to obtain all of my life.

I am 62 and living on a union pension as a former truck and automobile mechanic. My partner (wife) of 41 years, justplaincross, also has a pension and both pensions together put us in the level of ‘poverty income’. I might add that ½ of our pensions go to pay for health insurance.

We have not eaten out at a restaurant or gone to a movie or any other paid for entertainment in years and have not suffered because of it.

Does this help answer your question?

[Thom]

There's a lot of penniless artisans out there Sidecross. Should they create for the joy of it and die of starvation?

Everybody gets paid for their actions, be it in money or birdshit.

When minstrels come to my palace i give them what i can and hope they'll come again!

[Isaiah Mpski]

I see that you are not in the USA.The problem,like Sidecross so spoke is that it is just getting too expensive to live a relative worry free existance here.
Too me,the worst thing is the cost of healthcare and borrowing money.
It is time to completely nationalize or socialize the healthcare system from cradle to grave under the guidance of the Sisters of Mercy not money.

[sidecross]

‘There's a lot of penniless artisans out there Sidecross..’

My work as a union mechanic was in spite of being an ‘artisan’. I did my art work the same way Emily Dickenson did her writing.

[Thom]

Didn't Emily Dickinson live with her dad though?

I was a union rep for a while and participated in several strikes. I come from a very small community - I'm sure you can imagine how nasty that was.

It seems to me we've actually a lot in common.

Isaiah, i've no pension fund, and no health insurance either. I work for cash on a fishing boat. If i get sick, i'm screwed. I'm comfortable with that and accept it. I'll get whats coming to me and i'll be grateful for it.

[sidecross]

‘Hi BOTHers,…’

Adding “er’ to Evolve is one thing, but adding ‘er’ to BOTH turns into a ‘bother’!

Are we, collectively, a bother daniel?

[craazyman]

Even Jungians make Freudian slips.

[Isaiah Mpski]

Thom,
I respect and admire your fatalistic attitude.I had it too until I hit 50 and then I began to understand that the world is basically a cold cruel dog eat dog place that you ultimately suffer in because of greed,loss of compassion and just plain animal-like behaviour.
God did not nor does not intend it to be that way.
You are always welcome to come and live on our farm in Oklahoma.Great fishing here too.
Your friend.

[sidecross]

Here is another modern day artist who lives with his father, whose concern for money is rock bottom.

The article is too long and would not supply the samples of his work.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/arts/design/19kenn.html

[ February 19, 2006, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: sidecross ]

[silentwolf]

I'm with Sidecross on that; it's why half the of the proceeds from my book are going to the THC Ministry.

Like I have said before, all Daniel Pinchbeck cares about is glory, money, and getting blasted. It's a curse that's been rolling down his family line for centuries, and will be hard for his descendents to shrug off...the child always inherits the demons of the parents.

[Thom]

That's some hatefull stuff there silentwolf - why post it??

You've written some good stuff on this board. What's up?

[sidecross]

I find that a harsh and undeserved comment about daniel.

I found his intention a noble one, but money has always been a square object to be put in a round container. Even in the 60’s in S.F. the ‘Diggers’ found their cause to land on the rocks.

The remark made about his lineage is way out of bounds; daniel is the only one to make comment on his family.

My comment at the beginning of this topic was meant to only separate money and the process of ‘Evolving’, BOTH, or other term one might use for understanding who we are.

Jesus had cause for turning over the money tables; I have not seen or heard of a method to replace it. Sadly, Jesus was not even successful.

[ February 19, 2006, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: sidecross ]

[silentwolf]

I'm not being hateful, I'm being honest. There's a lot more layers to a personality than one can put into words of course, but his course screams self-glory, financial success, and an absolute obsession with altered states as motivation. Is that a curse? Most definately. Look at the lines of power around him if you know how to see them; they are NOT the kind that promote healing. I tried to talk to him about that before and I was met with an even more brutal wave than he typically carries about himself.

Yes, I am being harsh, but I work for my magic. I do not mindlessly ingest plants and hope for a slimmer of enlightenment to grace my being, I force the currents until I am completely exhausted. I do not hope for some grand miracle to befall me and the world around me, I work for that power so I can change it myself.

[daniel]

i thought perhaps i could try to do something good for everyone by giving them an option to actually get paid for what they are now doing for free?

Isn't it just possible that my motives are decent ones?

But of course I suppose it is much more fun to attack me and assume or insinuate I am trying to get away with something??

Also, thanks for all the low ratings, friends. I wonder how you rate yourselves?

[MidnightDreary]

Daniel,
Maybe Silentwolf knows you better than the rest of us, but for what it's worth I've never seen your motivation as "glory, money, and getting blasted". I would also like to extend to you an oft-neglected note of gratitude and appreciation not only for providing and maintaining this and the Evolver site, but also for contributing interesting and stimulating thoughts and ideas (and thanks to everyone else who takes the time to share their thoughts and ideas as well). I just wanted to make it clear that Silentwolf's point of view is not necessarily the predominant one.

Bryan

[silentwolf]

Baaaaaaaaa, follow the white fuzzies!

[sidecross]

‘Also, thanks for all the low ratings, friends. I wonder how you rate yourselves?’

Yes, as I wrote you, I gave you a 1 star rating after you used my name in a title of a thread that did not even express my view; you would not even edit the title to make the correction.

I do not believe in ratings; I suggest you might adopt the same view.

[Lowlight]

I think the whole rating thing is crap, it breeds resentment and hubris. I did rate people when i first joined up, but i thought thats was the norm on message boards (this is one of the first i ever joined up on - prob the first actually when i think about it). I long ago realised the folly of it as a system. The only thing that is needed is a system where the amount of time someone has invested in the site is visible, and we already have that here with the post numbers.

[okster]

Yeah, it would be great if the ratings feature could just be ripped out of here.

I for one find Daniel to be one of the most interesting and inspiring people on the planet. He seems to be actually trying to make sense of the predicament we are all in and actually trying to do something about it, while keeping a very open mind and a very positive outlook about the ever-closer "end o' the world".

As for "money, glory and getting blasted", let me practice a little wishcraft here and put out a wish for plenty of "money, glory and getting blasted" for Daniel, myself, everyone here and everyone on the planet. Yeah, lets live! (All things in balance of course - may we all be humble, content with what we have, and obtain mastery over our own god-given built-in chemistry).

As for the Evolver forum, I posted there and in a thread somewhere at BOTH a few months back that the forum was unusable to me due to a problem with the screen width. After quite a delay, this problem was fixed. But when I went back to check out Evolver a few weeks ago, the problem was back. I hit plenty of websites including discussion forums, and this is not something I would expect to see, it is something that needs to be fixed. It may not be a problem that shows up for most people, but I can tell you it does make the forum unusable for me. (secretly, I wish the discussion forum would just stay here, and the Evolver website would do whatever else and maybe just point here for discussion).

Peace. Let's get to work.

[willoweyes]

You all take the ratings way too seriously. I think the stars are a hoot!

It's as meaningless and arbitrary as all the other little labels and medals and gold stars we struggle for.

Laugh, and you will be free.

[sidecross]

I have had the same problem as okster when I visited the sight recently.

[silentwolf]

This society we live in is based on falsity, especially in the United States. It is said that we are free, but we are slaves to legislation and those who write them under threat of violence and caging. I support those who defy the strength of the technology that destroys this planet, which we have collectively created and supported.

Many of us feel that this is wrong, but more MUST be done than just "keeping a positive outlook." Many of us sort of want to see change, but do not dare to risk our way of life in order to bring about; so we hope for a miracle, beg for a miracle, something that will come about drastically of its own accord so we are not stirred into action.

Humans are tribal hunter-gatherers by nature. We came from this, we will return to this, and we still do this in a sense. The main problem with us is that we do not conform to the earth and nature; we create our own idea of a world and attempt to conform earth and nature to us. This will backlash, and is backlashing right now.

A simple, positive outlook and hope for a brighter future through some mystical change that we do not attempt to bring about by our own hands, as the destruction was brought about, will not work. Complacency with a smile and a light step while dancing on a corpse is an option, but it's a grim one indeed. It's a lovely little fable, but just as false as our society.

I have said before that the potential for great work lies here and with Daniel, but we all know that improperly used, or wasted, medicine is no better than a poison.

A positive outlook is not the answer, but part of it.

Entheogens are not the answer, but part of it.

Freedom is not the answer, but part of it.

The whole answer is absolute sensitivity, compassion, for everything around you, and the gall to act on that sensitivity and do what's right. Why do you think so many spiritual "masters" keep telling people to meditate? It's not just to mellow you out, or to make themselves look pretty. It's to let you see that you are a luminous being, not this crude flesh, as everything else around you is.

When the vegetation has once again swallowed our great cities, the centers of despair for our planet, my work is through. Until that time, I will be relentless in chasing that end by discovering the secrets of thought that create existence, and applying them as I am able.

Human bodies make fantastic fertilizer, and the planet will be lush again.

[okster]

silentwolf -
I'm not sure that I (or most here) would disagree with most or any of your last post. Except for one thing - you seem to imply that Daniel is about let's take drugs, have a good attitude and hope for the best. If you read a bit more here you will find that he is all about WE actually have to DO something. WE have to either work to prevent the terrible tragedies coming at us, or at least we need to be BUILDING something to take the place of everything that is now about to fall (or maybe we just need to prepare ourselves spiritually to be ready for whatever comes next). Those who can see will need to be examples and help to find a way. And I can't speak for Daniel, but he seems to be very open to any possibilities. He has helped and inspired me a lot with that attitude. The building we need to be doing may be to actually build new communities, farms, tribes, etc, or it may be more about building something in our bodies, hearts, minds, and souls. No doubt, dark times are ahead, all the more reason why we must have a positive outlook and an open mind. There may be actions we should be taking in the material world. It is certainly just as important to work with our minds (figuring things out and sharing ideas and information far and wide - I can't wait for Daniel's next book). And we must stay in touch with our hearts and our spirits. Let us all pray for guidance.

[MidnightDreary]

"A positive outlook is not the answer, but part of it.

Entheogens are not the answer, but part of it.

Freedom is not the answer, but part of it."

I think most if not all of us realize this. The problem is you've always come across with the attitude that you have all the answers and nobody else does. "I'm already there, dude" I remember you saying sometime before you last started berating people and disappeared. I always suspected you might have vanished because response to the book you were trying to sell was less than you had expected, but what do I know. All I know is suddenly you reappear and pick up right where you left off, lambasting Daniel. Seems like you should take your own advice concerning sensitivity and compassion.

"Baaaaaaaaa, follow the white fuzzies!"

This just sounds like patent Michael Savage. Take that as you will.

[silentwolf]

I am pained; this is the only proper response I can give.

[Isaiah Mpski]

I hate to remind everybody but us Native Americans had it pretty well together before all you blacks and whites showed up.

[sidecross]

Caucasians did ruin, by genocide, a good thing; African-Americans did not have a choice.

[sidecross]

I might add that the horse was extinct in the Americas for over 20,000 years before coming to the Americas as a potent instrument of war by Spain in the 15th century.

[Isaiah Mpski]

Yes the horse made the Comanches the Lords of the plains.
I wonder if there is an analogy between the horse and the nuclear weapon.

[daniel]

thanks, okster. That was nice to hear.

[Agent Smith]

nevermind

[ February 26, 2006, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: Agent Smith ]

[postmodernennui]

I think that a lot of people around here, myself included, seem to forget that despite having had some fascinating mystical experiences, above all, Daniel is a human being.

Granted, he has to my mind at least, an amazing way with words, such a way in fact that even three years after BOTH affected me so deeply, I still re-read passages from time to time.

I will admit that I often tend to view Daniel as an author photo, words on a page, an mp3 of a lecture to download and a website. Not too long ago I even met someone who knew him well who was telling an innocous story that involved them doing some very normal activity that any two friends or acquantinces might do together and I almost was unable to listen, such was the conception in my mind of DANIEL PINCHBECK, visionary author, as opposed to Daniel Pinchbeck, real human being. I suppose what I am saying in such a convaluted way is that I think a lot of the unwarranted vehemence directed towards him around here as of late is carried out by people who don't seem to recognize that despite being talented and gifted, he still has to log on to this website and see people trashing projects that he has obviously worked hard to create, a feeling that no matter how many transmissions one has had from Quetzalacoatl, still can't feel very good.

[sidecross]

Not another disappointment, daniel does not walk on water and his eye and mind do not see the future? Please don’t say he really sells snake oil out of the trunk of his car!

As for my complaint about Evolver and money, my main complaint had to do with and I quote:

‘…We plan to pay out a certain proportion of daily advertising revenue to contributors (the percentage will depend on our overhead and marketing costs, etc.)…’

Sorry, I would not want to be paid on revenues from unspecified revenues and I would have hoped others would have felt the same. If making a dollar from selling who knows what New Age widget appeals to those on BOTH let them make their money on Evolver Project, but I would hope never to see advertising on BOTH.

It is my understanding that the cost of providing the BOTH site is not a high one, and if contribution were needed to keep BOTH up and running, I am sure with the number of people participating donations in small funds for that purpose would come in.

This is my main complaint I tried to make.