Matters of opinion

[DualSlayer]

It has become apparent to myself as well as many others on this forum as well as political figures, celebrities that write movies, for the sole purpose of unveiling layers of the collective unconscious, that 2012 is indeed the end date of this dream state we have been in for so very long. But, it is my belief that there must come a character of this time before things will begin to rapidly change for the better. This person, which i believe will be a young man, will be perceived as the antichrist to some, and 2nd coming of christ to induce the wave of christ consciousness to others. I have asked myself, where does this person reside, what is he doing at this moment, and why indeed does he wait. If this whole concept is not purely delusional, than what will happen if this character of sorts chooses to stay "asleep", or worse yet end his of her life. What will happen if the line of the luciferic god/archetype has been severed, what kind of ending will unfold.

I have taken into account ideas which have been presented in the book " Nothing in this book is true but its exactly the way things are". Such as The idea of the "Greys" which Mr. Pinchbeck touched on in his book, but did not take the whole concept seriously. Its my opinion that these beings are extra dimensional and are in fact running out of time, and are feeding off of the human spirit/love to try and regenerate. This is the whole reaon why these beings have not unveiled themselves to the world on a vast scale, or worst yet exterminate the human species. This would explain one side of the coin of our rapid technological advancements, within the past roughly 2 hundred years. Keep in mind this theory is indeed one sighted but when you draw the lines between the dots there is no longer conincidence only vision. I have left many aspects such as "UFOS", crop circles, pope john paul the 2nd sitting on a chair with an upside down cross on it, as well, bush representing the west's state of religious moral decay, etc. as several others which all have a place in theory. Id like to further discuss these among other subjects, depending on this forums members response. Id love to hear any ones ideas or criticisms constructive of not on the subject.

Peace Blaze one in the same

[Somantics]

People have had all kinds of instincts about the impending change, so much so that it’d be very hard to dismiss everyone of them as misplaced, delusional or idiotic (although some of them most assuredly are)! As for me I have no idea where to place my expectations. On the one hand no one could fail to see a massive acceleration in technological and cultural ‘progress’ ecological shutdown and rise in esoteric belief. Is the latter merely a reaction to the former – a way for man to try and reconnect to something lost? If that’s the case then the argument is circular because it seems to confirm that humans are more than we see in the everyday.

I have a sense about Mckenna, Pinchbeck, and Wilson et al all holding pieces of the puzzle but constantly need to warn myself away from escapist and /or utopian theories. I believe that something is coming and that we have to be ready. Repetitions of history are already happening, prophecies seem to be aligning and the climate is most assuredly changing but is it just disaster or is it the long discussed expansion of consciousness that I hope for?

In one sense the problem is that every assertion has another questions tagged onto it, but in another that’s an advantage because it may just be that we are learning, finally, to live in a world where we can accept that some truths carry no final analysis; UFO’s, crop circles and even the origin of life definitely fall in that category! Maybe our minds are made to contain the mystery without breaking it apart?

Anyway one things for sure – the time for choices is rapidly slipping away so the best thing to do, as far as I can see, is to live lightly, consume organically, care for life, short your cultural programming by acting outside of negative expectations and get fit and strong. That way you’ll be improving yours and everyone else’s life regardless of the challenges to come.

[DualSlayer]

Thanx for the reply, i like your attitude.Maybe our minds are made to contain the mystery without breaking it apart? I think perhaps on some subconscious level we already know. One idea i didnt mention is that perhaps afters 2012, if the polar shifts do occur. We will adopt the 13 month calender and realign ourselves within the cosmic scheme. This would make sense of the prophesy that after the 2nd coming apocolypse...... there will be a 1000 year rain of peace etc. (if my facts aren't that off). any comments

[DualSlayer]

Does'nt that make sense. 12 months in the year afters 2012, we may return to our true nature, embracing the feminine aspects of creation which have been repressed for so long. pure speculation but it makes sense to me.

[Somantics]

Do you believe in prophesy? Wouldn’t that mean that in one sense the future has already occurred and nothing now could avert the plan? Or maybe we are all part of a fabulously baroque mechanism – although this much we already sort of know. Personally I prefer to see the whol thing as a work in progress – a constant re-editing, redesigning and co-creation of circumstance and emotion. In this scenario we’re still free to choose inside our current options (which naturally all have cause and effect), and align ourselves with a positive wave to crash over the current negative slumber. Now more than ever sides are being chosen!

Anyway dual slayer how have you come to your ideas – are they informed by any thing in particular? Are your notions intuitive or knowledge based? If they’re anything like mine they’ve evolved from intuitive beginnings encouraged by daily corroboration through word of mouth, books and synchronicity. I have no idea if they’re right though

[DualSlayer]

Ive come to my ideas mainly through a feeling of intuition backed by knowledge from many different sources. As well I've been experiencing an increasing frequency of synchronicities within the past roughly 3 years. I like your notion of an ever evolving scheme through emotion and cause and effect, but i do think that humanity is predestined to a certain extent. I think that we have important choices to make as a whole community meaning the entire species, which has led us to where we are today and where we will be tomorrow. If only we would stop and listen to our "hearts", that intuition within us that can not necessarily be descerned through words, but is which i at least define as a sense of compassion, our true human nature. perhaps then we could set our compass in an other direction and break free from this curse.

[DualSlayer]

If we all stopped working there would be a stick cast into the spoke.
We are the silent masses
The ones who chose to be the witness
of this departing travesty
How we become so frail

So get a comfy seat in front of the window.
Soon this dream will come to end
We will all take flight, and begin to ascent
Into another one of mayas destinations
The next earths incarnation

Freedoms have all become lost
Turns out there never was a definition
Just one side of the coin, our loss
we should stand at all costs
we're all too busy fighting
I will no longer stay silent
Although no one seems to listen to the hollow

[lovemanifest]

I believe each octave of existence offers unique opportunities for the evolution of Consciousness. Although there are many others, my favorite teachers about this are the Maya. They left very specific information about these times--and how to join them--as we stand at the razor's edge of this cosmic spiral.

I embrace these times wholeheartedly. As I learn, explore, and live my purpose and dreams, my life just gets better. Each day I become lighter and more radiant, and I feel waves of ecstacy flutter through me. Tag, you're it!

[Damien]

Originally posted by DualSlayer:
It has become apparent to myself as well as many others on this forum as well as political figures, celebrities that write movies, for the sole purpose of unveiling layers of the collective unconscious, that 2012 is indeed the end date of this dream state we have been in for so very long. But, it is my belief that there must come a character of this time before things will begin to rapidly change for the better. This person, which i believe will be a young man, will be perceived as the antichrist to some, and 2nd coming of christ to induce the wave of christ consciousness to others. I have asked myself, where does this person reside, what is he doing at this moment, and why indeed does he wait. If this whole concept is not purely delusional, than what will happen if this character of sorts chooses to stay "asleep", or worse yet end his of her life. What will happen if the line of the luciferic god/archetype has been severed, what kind of ending will unfold.
Trust me, I am not asleep...very much awake. I am working on spreading the goodword as much as possible... smile.gif

[Zehn]

amen to that! we're the ones we've been waiting for...

[craazyman]

Each day I'm more and more amazed at what many people have to endure simply to be alive. As Isaiah said, faces with the scars of the saints, enduring the flagellation of the stations of the cross. And then you meet one who has suffered, and you feel a calm soul power and effortless affirmation so strong you're uplifted and miserably humbled at the same time. Where does this come from? Not Peru, or Lourdes or a Mayan pyramid or the top of Mount Shasta. It's around every corner of every street, right in front of you, and you can't see it and neither can I. I suppose you have to be pressed to the absolute wall to find it, or maybe that will kill you. It's a tough price of admission.

[Isaiah Mpski]

Lord CM,we're putting our trot lines out tonight.Wouldn't be surprised to have a couple of 30 pounders by the morning.
Yes live is cruel and heartless made worse by a mentality that seems to want to control the whole world.
I suffer with each and everyone and wish I had the power to change all their lives for the better.
Maybe in time,maybe when people hear my story and a movie is finally made like the Scientolgists promised(that is a story in itself).
For it has been an epic journey and I am blessed.

[DualSlayer]

I suggest you guys watch loose change second edition on youtube.com. It exposes the bush administration and the new world order for what they have done and what they are capable of doing. I believe that we as human beings play an integral part of what has and is unfolding in the universe. To use the metaphor of the celtice knot, our consciousness plays a major role in stabilizing reality and the cosmos into creation. In that sense we will decide the fate/destiny of the cosmos in a sense whether this is predetermined or not.

[albente]

If we come to a point where a message can be sent to the future than the future can communicate back to us, a short circuit within time so to say. A dimentional shift is the result.

Check out the video of Terrence McKenna and Rupert Sheldrake that I posted under Daniel's Buring Man 2K6 talk where Terrence presents this idea. Absolute mind boggeling and in itself conclusive!

[Zehn]

send a messege to the future?

that's simply so fucking crazy that it makes sense.. i'm unable to catch the video at the moment. please elaborate.

[albente]

Go to 'video.google.com' do a search on 'Sheldrake' and the first two videos listed (identical) are the talk that I refer to. You need a fast connection obviously.

Also interesting is to do a search on 'Pesce'.
The first result 'Alien Dimensions' also features Terrence McKenna.

This guy Mark Pesce is actually quite interesting and when you do a search under HYPERPEOPLE you can listen to the visual remix of a speech about Bit Torrent, a suppressed communications technology that might also lead to something like some sort of a fusion. Not that he developed it, but the fact that he puts such an emphasis on it leads me to suspect that he is onto something here.

[ September 13, 2006, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: albente ]

[Zehn]

Finally got it working! Thanks... very cool videos.

[gandydancer]

Here is a good site with recordings. I listened to a bit of the Mark Pesce, but was not much interested in that sort of thing.

I listened to all of Houston Smith and really liked it. In fact I'm going to listen again this morning while I can peaches.

I also listened to Margaret Ferguson, not so much for information since it turned out that it was recorded way back in the 80's when she came out with her book "The Aguarian Conspiracy", which was my "Bible" for so many years. Many times I have wondered how it happened that I found that book since information was not so freely passed around as it is today.

http://www.futurehi.net/media.html

[albente]

Accurate description of the content of this post. It is less the specific data transfer but rather the medium that is at work, isn't it?

I myself am just picking up more media stream from Terrence McKenna, who I did not know much about so far, but once the guy hits, he hits you staight.

Keep the transmission going!!!!!!!

[ September 18, 2006, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: albente ]

[Zehn]

I know what you mean... I first got turned on to Mckenna a couple of years back while reading some of his written work. But when I found deoxy.org and heard the spoken word, he blew me to pieces!

I would just like to thank everyone on the forum for all the great work you're doing.. It's great having resources like BOTH to come to and share ideas, etc.

[DualSlayer]

the extra dimensionsl beings who are in postion of control are begining to lose form, cnn told me so

[drew hempel]

" Nothing in this book is true but its exactly the way things are". is a book that just promotes the CIA Stargate Conspiracy via Drunvalo Melchizadek, etc.

[DualSlayer]

i think you are a smart person as far as being intelectual goes drew... the cia is a gear in the system as we all are even weather u will admit it or not... there are some valid points in that book... i sugest u read " the intellects advatage" as far as the cia goes perhaps u are under their control, think about that... telepathy is a gift and pretty soon it will be, i only mean the truth. good bye

[galactic spiral]

Do you believe in prophesy? Wouldn’t that mean that in one sense the future has already occurred and nothing now could avert the plan? Or maybe we are all part of a fabulously baroque mechanism – although this much we already sort of know. Personally I prefer to see the whol thing as a work in progress – a constant re-editing, redesigning and co-creation of circumstance and emotion. In this scenario we’re still free to choose inside our current options (which naturally all have cause and effect), and align ourselves with a positive wave to crash over the current negative slumber. Now more than ever sides are being chosen!


interesting. The idea of predetermination and free will has been a topic of discussion for a long time. If there is free will, then can predetermination really exist? Well, for me this is one of those paradoxes that HAS to exist. meaning, I beleive that we have both free will AND predetermination. How? Well, obviously right now I couldn't tell you, but I do know that in higher states of conciousness the concept was the only thing that could possibly make sense.

Think about it this way, our wills exist in time and space, and within time and space we make decisions, which alter our time and space. Thus, we have free will. However, from the standpoint of eternity, everything that has happened and is about to happen, is already in existance NOW. Thus, it is already predetermined.

How can these two things logically make sense together? Well, they can't, because Eternity exists outside of our logic.


And, since we are on the topic of 2012. My views are thus: 2012 is about 5 years away from now. That is a good goal to try and improve on my spiritual growth and prepare myself for the infinite. If nothing happens, fine. I'm better for it. If something does happen, I'm ready.

[Isaiah Mpski]

What you need to understand that the road to heaven can be made in 3 steps or 7 steps or lives.
That is the purpose of the soul,to serve as the super-ego or the Budha so that our trip in heaven is comfortable as possible.
Eternity exists outside of our logic as do the boundries of space.
I wonder sometimes at my God.

[Caprinardo Delirio]

one way or another i'm looking forward to the year 2013 much more than 2012.

[suebee]

QUOTE: galactic spiral:
"interesting. The idea of predetermination and free will has been a topic of discussion for a long time. If there is free will, then can predetermination really exist? Well, for me this is one of those paradoxes that HAS to exist. meaning, I beleive that we have both free will AND predetermination. How? Well, obviously right now I couldn't tell you, but I do know that in higher states of conciousness the concept was the only thing that could possibly make sense."




maybe its like quantum physics. everything already exists and we chose what we see.

[Caprinardo Delirio]

then how come i'm not playing a jessica alba shaped playstation 10? :D

[suebee]

i should have said: 'everything already exists and our expectations choose what we see.'

i dont get any of this stuff anyway. the more i read the less i know. the more i experience the less i remember.

[ielectric]

the effort to envision the changes awaited by all should be apparent in the questions we ask.

when we find ourselves claiming an affinity for a particular author while rejecting another, we overlook the fact that the mere process of judging speaks entirely of our own misunderstanding of the self.

in seeking any kind of authority outside our self, we surrender our self to outside authority.

it then follows that we feel diminished by that authority and others, pretending to forget that we sought that authority to begin with.

as cited earlier in this thread, daniel's conclusion to 2012, "we are the ones we have been waiting for" points out the inability to comprehend the self as the time and space in which all change is located.

calendars are tools for material fools.

the end of the calendar indicates an acknowledgment of the immaterial, whereby time and space lose all significance.

while convenient for the sake of "modern" discussion, the tendency to blame someone or something for our perception of evil -- bush or christianity or the left or islam or money, etc. -- is nothing more than primitive idol worship, the investment of totems with authority.

the gadget-love which colors the age of technology retains all the superstitious trappings of the so-called "dark ages," although the shapes of our talismans and amulets, altars and totems have shifted.

the deification of things -- of movie stars and philosophers, of the rich and the famous, of ideas and ideologies, of consumer items like computers and yoga mats, etcetera -- reveals a pervasive lack of confidence in the self as integral to the harmony of the infinite and holistic oneness that is All.

simply by opposing evil, we validate and engender our belief in its existence.

to heal the self is to heal the All.

to do this, one must see that neither the self, nor evil, nor the All needs healing.

only the self can heal.

the self heals by recognizing that nothing needs healing, that all is heal-thy and wholly holistic.

any real change will arise 1st in the imagination -- the recognition that good and evil are outmoded tools for entities damaged by the terrorism of an egotistical fear we have nurtured and nourished from the dawn of history until now -- and the material evidence for real change will not only appear in a fleeting instant, it will be unnecessary.

ecology (the language of home) makes economy (the naming of the home) obsolete.

naming is the accursed magic of economy: name your product, name your price, name a need you never had before you needed naming.

to name a thing is to seek power; to seek power is to lose the self; the naming of things continues the impossible task of self-destruction, a frustrating enterprise that further corrupts the self by attempting the destruction of what is always nameless and indestructible.

to learn the language of the universe (our home) we must listen deeply.

the material plane loses its gravity, its solidity.

the ground going out under our feet feels welcome, uplifts us.

the need to crown the victors and mourn the victims becomes unnecessary.

the words to describe the reversal of survival so that "life is the only thing worth living for" hold no meaning.

we will play as we cannot imagine through the blind ditch of quaking egos that have taken us nowhere, for we have never ever needed any other place to go, being beings in outer space as always we have been.

we will play with the energy of countless nodes of the self knowing no rules or roles, no winners or losers, no beginning and no end.

there is no accounting, for there remains nothing of a world in which the only problem is the invention of problems that are not.

the end of this world is the end of everything we see wrong with it:
and the end of sickness is healing,
and the end of war is peace,
and the end of hatred is love,
and the end of greed is sharing,
and the end of fear is courage,
and the end of separation is togetherness,
and the end of enmity is amity,
and the end of discord is harmony,
and the end of economy is ecology,
and the end of death is life,
and the end of space is utopia,
and the end of time is eternity,
and the end of the materialist stranglehold we maintain by judging each body feeble and in need of protection and shelter is our release to rejoin the self we still hide from in each other.

this may not be right, but it isn't wrong.

dance
sing
play

peace...

[Isaiah Mpski]

...well I've never been to England,but I've been to Oklahoma....

[Isaiah Mpski]

Yesterday,about six o'clock I read a post(which) I cannot find now) about some dude from NYC who looked for Drew on a trip back home.No luck.
My first response,as is with most madmen,was to make fun of it all by replying,
"...did you look under all the bridges and crackhouses..."

Glad I didn't.


....every knee shall bow...

[DualSlayer]

Who Called it?

[DualSlayer]

"You call us devils, demons, once were saints and sages, crucified at birth, burned at the stake and forced to cross from the right to let, this hand will always speak, there will be no vengance but a new world without your order, Dualslayer is a force of one, we are everything, 1984, was a preminition of things to come, lets stoke the fires and wipe the slate, before its too late." Dualslayer

[DualSlayer]

Nevermind the guns, sharpen ur blades, code of arms swords, the blood stays on... ur all a bunch of tools, i digress? no I reinstate the fact that ur all a buch of wannabees playing shamans when most of you are brain dead from bad acid. I'll be laughin while you burn.

[Isaiah Mpski]

Speaking of opinions,I think valuable pieces of California are going to wash into the Pacific.
Sixty mph winds at your place SB.I hope you aren't on a hillside.
Raining here too.Has been for a month.That is good for my garden.
Going to eat some real organic chili made from tender venison.
Started my de-partisitation program,hope I can make myself IV chelate soon.

Dual slyer,I have been working on that perfect little property from which Heaven will begin.McIntosh County,Creek Nation,Lake Eufaula,Okie Dokey land 74426 and 74432.
Would you like a fellowship with a TRUE evil fighting Shaman(MD) like your's truly.
Maybe seeing a quack might git rid of some of your disappointment.Have you saved any money or are your post just expressions of futility in your life?
I hope your posts will bring more members into this important discussion.
What is "real' life about.

In actually,I believe I am the only active member of this board who openly professes Shamanistic abilities.

[bopes]

the rest of us are in the closet about it. :)

[suebee]

isaiah we had the highest winds of the bay area yesterday - 97 mph! the trees out my windows looked like mad egg beaters on a bad acid trip. although i never had any bad acid so i really cant say that.

my latest shamanic adventure is reading robert thurman's infinite life. its great for slaying those late night demons of my own design.

[Isaiah Mpski]

You devil you.

[Isaiah Mpski]

Bopes,lol.
Have you ever heard of Monrovia? :)

[DualSlayer]

Yeah all right, strong winds blah blah... the mayans didn't make a long count calender to map the underworlds for no reason, this is a trangresion of sorts, there is currently 12 dimension in the mutiverse that is "God" as we shift our consciousness and align with the cosmic "center" meaning the energy field that expands and is infinity there will be 13 :) cracked? my no, broken lol

[Isaiah Mpski]

Yes there are 13.And each 13 has 13 for a total of 26.
John 14:26
John 15:26
John16:13
Earthquake coming out your way SB.
You best sell out and rent a lot from me.At least get a motorhome for your constant yearning to travel.

The "Doc"

[suebee]

new book - god is not dead by amit goswami (physics professor) - is pretty provocative.

[DualSlayer]

I think the main thing is to have faith in urself no matter what is going on in the world. The news can consume the masses as long as we stay blind,
I believe in Jesus and that he lives in you and I. We have been given the gift of free will and the option to make our own choices It is so beutiful

[Isaiah Mpski]

What do you believe about Jesus?
That his Mother got pregnant without having sex?
That's he's coming back out of the clouds?

The only clouds he's coming out of are in my head after smoking pot for 40 years,like unto Moses.

The "story" of Jesus is used and has been to manipulate and control the masses for a long time.You included,as it gives you a bit of "hope" for your future.
You best believe in karma,morality,ethics and James Monroe and of course the WORDS of Jesus.

Willow,I can't believe you would condone the indiscriminate use of "L" by your children.

[willoweyes]

"Willow,I can't believe you would condone the indiscriminate use of "L" by your children."

Isaiah, the only L i condone using indiscriminately is LOVE. There is truly no substitute, and unlike salt or sugar, the taste only becomes more beguiling the more you pile it on.

[Isaiah Mpski]

Willow,I agree with you.I have made several mistakes with my own daughter by,at times,giving her too many material things and letting her get away with actions that turned out to hurt her and me as well.
I have never though,let her think that changing her consciousness by using mind altering drugs or drink,is a way to have a happy succesful life.
I would kill somebody if they gave her LSD.
I have no right to criticze(sp) or judge anything you do or say.I can only say from personal experience that LSD is a harmful way to approach reality as a consciousness expanding experience,other than if continued on a regular basis it can lead to insanity or dumpster diving.
I think your son saw first hand at the rainbow gathering what I'm talking about.The only thing I can say is to bring that-what he saw,and remind him- he could be in the same condition if he is not careful.
You are a very intelligent woman and you and DC have apparently done well for yourselves and I'm sure you want the same for your children.
I learned a long time ago,that our children are going to do what they please irregardless of what we tell them.
Thus you are right.We have to love them first and be there for them as they mature into adults,and hope and pray for the best.
I have a step son who has Hep C.Not a week goes by that he doesn't call with some tragic story about how somebody has screwed him over and he needs more money or he and his family-two young children will be out on the street,but he does nothing to change his ways.
I can't even begin to tell you how many times I have gotten him out of jail or paid hot checks so forth and so on.All because of drugs and a Mother who "loved" him too much to try and change his ways.
Your friend,John D.

[willoweyes]

Love means caring enough to exert the enormous energy necessary to hand over to our offspring the tools to carry on without us.

Like the puppy pampered too much to housebreak, spoiling love leaves its victims numbered days at the pound--too soon the hammer comes down.

[DualSlayer]

when I say I believe in Jesus, I mean, I believe in compassion and what he stood for. Jesus was burned at the stake, as was his mother, as was every saint that had a deep connection with the "Earth". Our conception of evolution and how we came to be in false. "We are spirits in a material world". In this sense our spirits came first, as did "God" or rather what that label represents as the devine spirit which IS US ALL!
happy halloween

[Isaiah Mpski]

Does electricity count as fire?

[DualSlayer]

yes it is a FOR, my best friends brother who was an inspiration was electricueted fried, his head was a conduit and I was supposed to be doing the plumbing that day, he gave me advice when I was thinking of leaving twice.

[suebee]

such maternal (paternal) poetry. beautiful.

[DualSlayer]

Yes I suppose if you choose the word "poetry" yet he went with the hum of the hydro and I will always stand with his soul in the dead of night no matter what faith demands, synchronicities calle us first, Obama is a tool, do not be fooled, there will be a time to stand, for your children and all those you love, be ONE not the concept nor the number be US that stand for PEACE
I love all of you
it is up to you to find your strength

[DualSlayer]

All this is madness, ensued by pent up grief and turmoil, im moving my home town never to return again, good bye

[Isaiah Mpski]

This letter is to be seen only by the eyes of SB and Willow(and Nanouk if she pay a visit again)
Terrible news dears.
Our arch enemy Greg Stidham sisters boy did away with himself wednesday apparently by gun.Anyway they are a tight knit family with ties all the way to the White House.Greg took him away from his sister several years ago.
The same day I set MFSJ on Docket.
Can you imagine gittin beat by a brain damaged,paranoid schizophrenic,pro se Advocate?
hehehehehehehehe.He haw.

[Isaiah Mpski]

My previous post in no way was meant to be celebratory for Evan Schuering's suicide.
The lawyers opposing me in MFSJ were the targets about getting beat pro se.Daniel Sullivan and Mark Hardin.

Don't forget my brother commited suicide when he was 17 and I 18.
There is no way I would jest of such tragedies.

[Isaiah Mpski]

No my Post was directed to Willow(associate of famous Law Firm :p in N. Texas) and SB :cool:,a former lawyer out in LaLa land and the daughter of a noted Federal Judge.:mad:

:hmm:

And SB.The picture with Patsy,Sunni,and Elizabeth Taylor is real.She fell for me like a Rock.Larry didn't like it one bit but bit his tongue and we went our seperate ways.
Same thing for Lady Bird Johnson.She really loves and cares for me.

but the message is all the same from the lawyers I visit with,
"Physician heal thyself"

[DualSlayer]

you guys are off ur kilter, switch leaves, be the change, not some lame ass poster, or a corporate slogan, jesus talked to me last night, i tried to fight him but he just hovered above my head and laughed, don't you get the fairy tale yet, my god lol, if you are all this literal we deserve a hells fate, regardless, what it comes down to is that we will choose health and a better future for our children over greed and selfishness
later
dualslayer

[DualSlayer]

well that was a little harsh i suppose...... merry xmas

[DualSlayer]

What a joyous occasion, the wind blows, birds sing, my heart has opened and now it's spring! No more churches for the blind, it's available on your back shelf. Love is in the season, giants are waking up and this is beyond reason :)

[DualSlayer]

Where did everybody go? lol

[DualSlayer]

I have an interest in awakening this thread to further a discussion on a range of different topics that are relevant today, from the occupation movement and it's remefications, to peoples current view of what and where we are headed as a species on a global level. If any of the members who have previously posted are still around, or if any new members are please feel free to get it going :)

[sidecross]

The species of Homo sapiens is headed towards a bottleneck where if it survives a current population of seven billion people will have to be drastically reduced.

Whether we survive this process is an open question.

[sidecross]

OWS: To Change the Country, We Just Might Have to Change Ourselves

By Don Hazen, AlterNet

Posted on November 21, 2011

The emergence of what we know as Occupy Wall Street, or the 99 Percent Movement, has taken nearly everyone by surprise, producing a transformation of public consciousness. There is little doubt that something striking has taken place, far from our normal range of expectations. As a result, many thousands of progressives, excited that the logjam in American politics has been psychologically broken up, are still wondering exactly what has happened and why. Suddenly the style and conventional wisdom of traditional progressive models for social change have been pushed aside in favor of "horizontalism," general assemblies, culture jamming, and many other unconventional ways of doing politics.

The Antecedents of OWS

The DNA strands of some of these alternative approaches can be traced to Europe's Situationist International movement of the '50s and '60s, which combined radical politics with avant-garde art, and helped lead to a general strike in France in 1968. There are echoes, too, of American progressive movements that rose in response to the inequality, corporate excesses and corruption of the Gilded Age and the Roaring '20s. There are also reverberations from early in the labor movement of the large-scale industrial strikes of the 1930s, and also of the civil rights movement, and the women's movement's model of consciousness raising. Powerful acknowledgement must be given to the Arab Spring, for igniting the world's imagination. In Egypt, power that seemed incontestable was contested; protesters didn't have the answers beyond the end of Mubarak -- still they came and stayed.

Strong antecedents can also be found in the student-led antiwar movement of the late 1960s, which was also a fight against the dehumanizing effects of corporate power. Then, many young men faced being drafted to fight in a destructive and despised war. These young people and their families pushed back, saying, "Hell no, we won't go!" Many of today's millennials are also fighting back against circumstances that affect them directly. Student debt is more than $1 trillion, while unemployment for young people is at Depression-era levels. Declaring bankruptcy does not erase student loans; those crushing debts will follow them forever. Many of these young adults see their futures at stake. Not surprisingly, they want a solution -- either the jobs that would enable them to pay off their loans, or forgiveness of debt incurred under false pretenses.

Nevertheless, the movement that has burst out of a small park in Lower Manhattan feels like a new manifestation of the will for ordinary people to challenge dangerous and daunting forces that have come to dominate their lives. With its global reach and advanced technological and media tools, OWS may well usher in a new political and cultural era. Still, no one can say just where this thing will go and what the future will bring. And therein lies much of the power of OWS, and for some, the frustration. Pundits and organizers across the ideological spectrum have tried to understand the phenomenon, and explain it by fitting it into what we already know about how the system works, because not knowing is a source of great anxiety in our society, in the media, in the establishment, and even among progressives.

As Eve Ensler, global activist and author of The Vagina Monologues says, "What is happening cannot be defined. It is happening. It is a spontaneous uprising that has been building for years in our collective unconscious. It is a gorgeous, mischievous moment that has arrived and is spreading. It is a speaking out, coming out, dancing out. It is an experiment and a disruption."

Of course, nothing concrete has changed, yet. But the possibility of change -- really, the necessity of change -- is now in the middle of our nation's politics and public discourse. This alone is an incredible achievement because a few short months ago, many millions of us essentially had no hope.

Why Has the Tried-and-True Failed Us, and OWS Succeeded?

We may well ask why so much progressive organizing and billions of dollars of investments in social change over the past 20 to 30 years has failed to slow down the right-wing, corporate-dominated juggernaut or catch the public's imagination. And how is it that, remarkably, what is succeeding in front of our eyes breaks what we thought were the hard and fast rules of political relevance? We had come to believe we needed the development of charismatic leaders operating within vertical organizational models, with heavy emphasis on fundraising and electoral politics. But that is changing. Reality is undergoing an adjustment.

Micah Sifry, writing on the Web site Tech President, wondered, "Did OWS succeed simply because it was non-hierarchical in method, had smart framing in tune with public anger about the economy and Wall Street, and made really effective use of social media?" If so, he asked, "Why didn't a very similar effort, called 'the Other 98 Percent' take off last year? Why didn't the US Uncut movement, a spinoff of an ongoing street protest movement in England, take off here this past winter? Why didn't Van Jones' new Rebuild the Dream movement, which was launched this summer with the backing of MoveOn, labor and the progressive netroots, take off?"

Longtime organizer Andrew Boyd described a few key elements to Sifry. One is the powerful tactic of occupation itself, with the personal commitment and determination of people on the ground to see it through. "Continuous occupation creates a human drama" and a demonstration of dedication that matters. "People await the next episode. Will the cops kick them out? Will they outlast the weather? Will they participate in the elections?" Another reason is the lack of demands. As Boyd says, it puts OWS in the morally potent "right vs wrong box," instead of in the "political calculation" box.

Still another is the authenticity of OWS. As Sifry notes,

"Occupy Wall Street isn't slick. It isn't focus-grouped. It isn't something professional activists would do…As the authors of the Cluetrain Manifesto wrote more than a decade ago, we instinctively know the difference between a human voice and a corporate voice. I know it may sound strange to say this, but could the reason so many progressive social change projects fail to connect with ordinary people and move them to action be because they seem too corporate in style? Think of all those hand-scrawled signs on scraps of cardboard vs. a thousand professionally printed signs from a union shop--which is more authentic?"

But there is something simultaneously much harder to grasp and incredibly easy to digest if one is able to suspend disbelief, to stop thinking in all the ways we have been taught and trained to respond in American politics. And get ready for a wild ride.

A Generational Shift

Even though OWS involves people of a wide range of ages, there has been a fundamental generational shift. Millennials have a different view of how to do things, with values and knowledge gained from leaders across the world. They have absorbed quite naturally the fundamental approach of horizontalism -- perhaps better labeled participatory democracy -- field-tested in places like Argentina, Spain and Greece.

As Marina Sitrin, a veteran of political organizing in Argentina 10 years ago and an early OWS participant explains:

"2011 has been a year of revolutions -- uprisings -- and massive social movements -- all against an economic crisis and crisis of representation. Most all of these new movements have taken directly democratic forms, and are doing so in public spaces, from Tahrir Square in Egypt, to the plazas and parks of Spain, Greece, and increasingly the United States. The words horizontal, horizontalidad and horizontalism are being used to describe the form the movements are taking. Horizontal, as it sounds, is a level space for decision making, a place where one can look directly at the other person across from you….Horizontalism is more than just being against hierarchy...it is about creating something new together in our relationships. The means are a part of the ends. The forms of organizing manifest what we desire; it is not a question of demands, but rather a manifestation of an alternative way of being and relating."

On a practical level, what this means is that Gen Xers and Boomers have much to learn from the different approaches to politics OWS represents. Instead of focusing on traditional power structures, the OWS operation seems like the "wisdom of crowds" combined with a fundamental sense that top-down power can't really ever change anything, because it will always, by its nature, reproduce the system it is trying to change.

For decades, we progressive Boomers (I am one) and Gen Xers have continued doing things the way we always have, believing that if we only organized a little better, raised more money, were a little smarter, tweaked the message just so, success would be ours. But we could not discover how to make a dent in the political hegemony of banks and corporations, in the political corruption, in unjust laws that protect the powerful. Life in the social and economic realms has declined over the past decades -- for the working class, poor people, people of color, students, and increasingly the middle class. Meanwhile, more and more corporate money is invested to game the system. The Supreme Court's decision in Citizens United was the last nail in the coffin, giving yet more influence over our "democracy" to the 1 percent.

OWS represents a challenge to many established orders. It challenges a large professional class of highly educated progressives who learned to work the funding system and to create a broad, comfortable and self-reinforcing progressive establishment. While millions suffer with joblessness, underwater mortgages and student debt, many in the progressive establishment are well-paid and thriving, fighting a battle on many fronts that it seems we are doomed to continue to lose. Why? Perhaps it is because our system and way of doing things mirrors the oppressive system in many ways. There is nothing revolutionary about movement professionals trying to negotiate with the Obama administration to tweak one policy or another. Or spending time convincing Americans to sign another petition or offer financial support -- things I personally promote, so I do not write this from a place of any superiority, nor do I have an immediate clear idea of how to change it, except that we must try.

Building on What We Have Done

Our old ways of doing things are going to be challenged and questioned every day. We have to be bold enough to resist running for establishment cover and use this teachable moment to take a hard look at what we have wrought. If we believe in our values, we have to adapt and change. At the same time, and this is crucial, we have to take stock of what we have built, which is significant. There are infrastructures in place that will help the OWS movement go forward. We must be creative and gutsy in imagining how to weave together the new with old, and not throw the baby out with the bathwater. We Boomers must remember that our early efforts of crossing many dividing lines -- of race, gender, class and sexual orientation -- provide the historical backbone of what the OWS movement is building on, 40 years later. It just may be that this generation is doing a better job than we did.

Moving forward, we have to distribute resources more broadly. We must bring people into productive roles who have been left out. None of this will be easy. But it could be amazing, and even more importantly, essential. Because if we are going to catch this tidal wave, if we are going to contribute to this huge fight against unbridled global capitalism, we must accept the anxiety and uncertainty of doing things differently. And many of us will. Already, many of us do sense that this is the best chance we will have in our lifetimes to reinvigorate our democracy, create a livable world for ourselves and future generations, and help millions, young and old, pull themselves from the grinding everyday pain of poverty and powerlessness.

We Are the Change

Joining the change will require reassessing both our habits and our organizations. And a fair question is, just what does that mean? I don't pretend to have the answers. But there are places to start. We can examine our privileges, share power, insist that resources be spread much further than they are now. We can think about relating better to all, not just to those in our political and social circles. As a daily practice, we can better value the people on whose work we depend, those who collect our garbage, deliver our food, clean our offices, do our laundry. And for the future of the earth -- we can challenge and change some of our greedy habits and remind ourselves of how easy it is to abuse the environment when we are privileged.

Many of us have been toiling for years, struggling for social change, for inspirational and accurate media coverage, for fairness and equality. We have been doing it the way we thought was right, and we should give ourselves credit for persistence, for not giving up. But we do find ourselves at a crossroads. Embracing the new has risks, and feels confusing, perhaps even threatening.

Eve Ensler has a way of artfully articulating the elements of key moments. She writes:

"If we are not afraid, if we open ourselves, we all know everything has to change. We need places to announce and actualize this change. Places are crucial. The ingredients involve stepping out of your comfort zone, giving up more than your share, telling your story and listening to others, not thinking in an obvious linear way, trusting the collective imagination to be more empowered and visionary than your own, refusing to participate in the violent destruction of anything. That includes taking anything that isn't yours, taking more than you need, and believing you have a right to dismiss or ignore or belittle anyone with less power or money or education. Believers...will be beaten with batons and pepper sprayed and dragged off. But no one can evict or silence what is emerging in Zuccotti Park."

Or what is emerging from the thousands of sister and brother occupations in the U.S. and across the globe.

It's clear. The movement that is OWS can't do it alone. They, and millions of us, need to be willing to step up, and change ourselves and change the world in the process.


Don Hazen is the executive editor of AlterNet.

© 2011 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/153165/

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/153165

[suebee]

my offerings have pretty much been about the future of homo idiotens since i started posting here. i have some hope in OWS as a means to change things, but its going to be a hugely LONG haul and people better be ready to tough it out. some kind of means to keep living while protesting (an away place to sleep at night and food) is needed to be able to keep occupying power centers during the day. long term is the only way this will work and as
more people fall into the non employed non assets nothing left to do but protest category, a means to keep people fed will be important. this is not exactly expressed in my usual articulate style...:p

[suebee]

on Occupy San Fran facebook postings today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9OLLbC7zFs&feature=share

[Van Gogh]

Right on SB.Establish large farms on gov land.Lake Eufaula started out with 150 soldiers running it.They are now down to less than 10.Lake has 10,000 acres of fertile delta land and timber. Lake Eufaula,McIntosh and Pittsburg counties of Oklahoma.:hmm::hmm:
Good time to work with local Federal and local govs.Spoken by a true Indian.Message me if you want to get to work or buy 5 acre lakefront farm.

[willoweyes]

I fell on my head so Im a little off. Not like the John Waters Movie. feel too old and achy-breaky to milk the goats. Im not sure if im the one to be any sort of a light unto homo idiocracy.

here is something I read about Matt Simmons today, written by James Howard Kunstler:

"Most of all, he was a good man who cared about the destiny of the human project. "

an eulogy we could all strive for.

[suebee]

matt simmons believed in the club of rome's predictions - heres one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Limits_to_Growth

preaching to the choir, i know...

[suebee]

heres some good stuff i just heard about:

http://www.abundancethebook.com/download/
first chapter free, authors very cool...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31510813/#46632845
one author's interview with dylan ratigan