Ego Dissolution on MDMA?

[Paravati]

This is one of my first posts to this forum. I found it while researching Ego Dissolution and sort of fell into the gigantic web world on shamanism.

I am interested to hear anyone's perspective on Ego Death as it relates to MDMA. I had never heard of such before, and found myself quite surprised to be suddenly existing in that space I had only found before on large doses of LSD. Anyone have any insights? There's a lot I could probably use help with.

Thanks in advance,
Leslie

[Eagle Wing]

hi Paravati,

there's been a lot written about the MDMA experience. Much of it speaks of MDMA's powers an an "empathogen", rather than a true "hallucinogen", although I've heard stories of some really far-out experiences that people have had on MDMA alone. I think the experience of "ego death",as it's called, is an important part of it -- probably a prerequisite to accessing visionary levels through this substance.

I think there's something very important to remember about psychedelics that often gets overlooked, especially by folks like Leary and McKenna. That is -- we have to be sensitive to the full range of experience that these power molecules can elicit. I think it's dangerous to assume that our own experiences, psychologically and even physiologically, will be the same for everyone else. Also, people's sensitivity to dosages varies hugely. So, you have as much to share about your personal experiences with MDMA as anyone else who has done it, even if they've done it 50 more times than you have. I for one am very curious about your ego death experience.

If you'd like some first-rate literature on MDMA, go to an alternative bookstore and look for "Pihkal" by Alexander and Ann Shulgin, two of the most dedicated, well-rounded and honest researchers in this area.

[Paravati]

I'm having a hard time even thinking about the experience in terms that I can relate here. I will try, though, to do the best that I can in the hope (however vain) that it will provoke some sense of understanding, or even, help someone else.

I became aware of this Presence that I'd felt before. I hesitate to use the word "God" because there's a part of me that feels like it's not entirely a nice presence. Sometimes, it feels very cruel. This presence started talking to me, showing me things, about this man, and what we were doing. It was laughing at me for ever presuming that anything that beautiful could ever be about me. I was making assumptions and now needed to be rudely disabused of them. I felt like I was being laughed at, ridiculed.

He turned around and asked me what had happened, what was wrong. (All of this feeling, the fear, and then it turning into mad Panic probably only took a few seconds). I attempted to explain to him that I had become suddenly very afraid and he asked why. I stammered out that I'd started to think about God and Destiny and The Song and was hearing this voice laughing at me, and he looked at me very puzzled. Then, it occurred to me that if I could get him to explain what HE felt, perhaps it would give me a perspective on what *I* had felt. So I asked him, "Did you mean it? Was that real? Did you feel it, too?" And he told me that he had just been playing music, that it meant nothing more than that to him, that that's just what he did.

When I heard that, the voice suddenly started chattering at me again, telling me I had been wrong and it had been right, and how dare I assume that anything that beautiful would have ever been about me. I started coming face to face with my own self, envisioning all the times that I'd ever made any sort of assumptions and been wrong; watched myself make mistake after mistake again and again throughout my life. During all of this was this profound sense of unworthiness and horrible fear. My guy was perplexed; he was feeling NOTHING like this and we'd taken the same dose. He didn't know what to do.

We tried to go lay down in the bedroom, and we did. I was still going on this insufferable mind-trip, and was physically trembling and shaking as each new "revelation" came into my mind. He just laid there and held me, and talked to me softly. He kept saying, "I wish I knew what to tell you, what to do." I kept asking him what was real. Was he real? Was the love between us real? Was ANYTHING real? He would tell me that he thought so.

He went to sleep around 8 am, and I laid in the bed, shaking and quivering and crying, for another several hours. When we woke up later that afternoon, the feeling was still there - even worse. I had thought that once I went to sleep, it would go away. It didn't. I woke up to this stark feeling of complete unreality. I wanted to touch every surface of every object that I saw, in order to make sure that it was really there and that it would feel like what I thought it would feel like when I picked it up.

And all wrapped up in it are my feelings about God, and Destiny, and this person, and everything that I am. I know that it sounds like it was ABOUT HIM, but it really wasn't. He struck something in me, was some sort of catalyst, but everything that happened afterwards mainly dealt with my own fear and my own self, and the mistakes that I've made and need to not make any longer, and things like that. In attempting to explain it to him, though, and indeed to anyone else - I am sure that it sounds like it's about him. It's really not, though.

The feeling persisted until about 9:00 pm that evening. I felt this sudden surge of energy, and then everything around me shattered like glass. The buzzing and humming that I'd been hearing in my head shattered, too. It all shattered around me like a glass bubble disintegrating, and fell on the floor. I actually heard it tinkling as it hit the carpet. I felt suddenly very clean, as if I could see through myself, and exhausted. I went to sleep.

For the past while, I've been feeling this.. whatever it was... settling into me slowly, sinking into my very soul. It's affected everything - how I've talked to my friends, the work I've been doing for my job, and how I've talked to my guy while he's been out of town. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to take only positive things away from this experience and make myself a better person for it. But all I can seem to remember is the fear. I researched Ego Dissolution (because I remember things like this happening to me when I took LSD, years ago) and came across writings about The Dark Night, and others. They are all fairly accurate in the sense that they can somewhat describe my emotional state at the time.

I'm interested in your thoughts about my experience. I would like to integrate what has happened and work on the things that I saw about myself during that journey. I would also like to, if I can, make sure that my guy doesn't think I'm a total nutcase. I

Thanks in advance for anyone who reads it and responds with any advice.

[ June 22, 2006, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Paravati ]

[Eagle Wing]

wow, paravati thank you for sharing...
a really intense mind spin for sure -- the voices in the head can be a very serious thing. it happens a lot, in fact there's another post up on this board somewhere about the voices saying truthful and profound things...

it sounds like your voice was that old self-deprecation again, though. Whose voice did it sound like? Did it remind you of anyone? Was it your own? I know many people who feel like they are not worthy to receive something beautiful. Telling ourselves that is a way of protecting ourselves from the very real experience of surrendering to beauty -- and that can be a hard thing to do when you have spent much of your life being taught or told not to accept it.

as for your boyfriend -- i think you're right to say it wasn't about him. It seems to me like this trip reactivated some repressed or unintegrated material that came up during your LSD sessions years ago... yeah, that stuff has a way of coming back. At some point in your life, you have to face these questions that you have about God and the universe and your own "worthiness". Maybe now is a good time since it's all been made really urgent -- that's a great value to drugs, probably the best one, making our feelings urgent and present.
I don't think you should waste your time and energy trying to convince or dialogue about this with your boyfriend -- neither do i think you should worry about his reaction -- if your spiritual emergency serves to push him away, well, better that it happened sooner than later. If he sticks around then it shows his interest. But he's not going to figure this out for you.
Take some time and space to yourself, replay that voice and what it said, clarify your feelings, meditate on the voice that said you are unworthy -- that voice in your head may not be yours, and maybe you can develop a new relationship to your feelings where that voice doesn't have as much power over you. I think it's important for you to take some time and space to integrate your experience, don't stuff it under the rug and go on as if it didn't happen because it will inevitably force your attention again. I hope this helps.... be patient with yourself and the process...

[jezebelle]

Paravati
sounds like you became aware of "your chatter" as some call it, or I've heard it called the "parasite mind". "Stopping the mind" is another way I've heard it expressed.
But it sounds like you made it through the fire ok, awareness is biggest hurtle and the nugget of gold is being able to see through your personal bullshit.
As for the guy, if he's your horse he will come back to you . . . but just how long are you willing to wait.
congratulations on your adventure, jez