DMT A bit concerned!

[El Eternauta]

Well I finally got to experiment with freebase DMT, I did so far 4 explorations and I can say this stuff is very very strange.
I am a big fan of mushrooms and I was expecting something along that way, but it was not.
First I have to say that you can see things and think in almost your normal state of consciousness and I felt I was transported to another dimension, I did not experience what most people do (like the mantis elves's etc) but I whet to some very dark as devoided of light realm were I can see these things moving about with grate definition, I had the clear sensation that they were doing something to me, not sure what but made me feel uneasy.
And here my question to all of you.
If there is a remote possibility that that these thing we see are real, are they always acting on us or the become aware only when we brake into there world?
And what are they doing? I tried to communicate with it but I got no response.
Also I have done once an ayuasca brew thou I did not get a full effect it felt more holistic in nature kinda like mushrooms than in the freebase form.
What are your opinions? is it wise to enter these worlds?
From my part I will experiment a bit more but I am stepping in with a lot of cautiousness.

[daniel]

My sense is that, when they take DMT, people get "mapped onto" some territory that is part of some vast otherness (the astral plane? the bardo?). I know that most people do not see what I do, and then every now and then I talk to someone and I know they go to the exact same place as me. People seem to go back to the same spot again and again - even if their DMT trips are many years apart.

I have never seen anything remotely elf-like on DMT (though often on mushrooms). What I see is what I tried to describe in my book: A realm of sentience in some sort of hyperconscious, hyperorganic state - I tend to think of them as the beings who, through their continual meditation, are maintaining the illusion of our physical universe.

Is DMT good for you? Who knows? As I said in the book, I don;t think we are meant to do it too many times in the straight form. Last time I took iboga I felt a strong message not to take DMT again - to commune with the more humane teachers, ayahuasca and iboga. My sense was that the purpose of ayahuasca and iboga was to slow down the message that beings from the DMT realm wanted to get down to me, so I could actually take in the wisdom rather than just being overwhelmed by it.

I do think about my DMT (and 5-meo) trips often - nearly every day - and think the experiences were incredibly valuable, even if I don't feel like I need to do it many more times in my life.

I have also heard about some people who do DMT a lot becoming a bit spooky and strange. And yet I know others who consider it their ally and teacher.

[Nicole]

daniel, you said:

I have also heard about some people who do DMT a lot becoming a bit spooky and strange. What exactly do you mean by this? Can you elaborate?

[daniel]

Nicole,

I should make clear that I have never met anyone who seemed, in any way, to be psychically damaged or suffering from overuse of DMT. What I mentioned above was purely secondhand.

To say anything else is to sound a bit like those people who insist there are mental wards full of "acid casualties," which is a massive oversight to say the least.

What I heard was that one or two people who specialized in "holding space" for those taking DMT, and often took it themselves, had become a bit odd after years of doing this. But we are talking about people who may have taken it thousands of times, and in any case, as I did not meet them myself, the story has almost no validity.

Everyone I have met who has tried DMT - a few times or repeatedly - is only different to the extent that any experience of total otherness will give you a different perspective from which to think about our seeming "reality."

[Nicole]

Everyone I have met who has tried DMT - a few times or repeatedly - is only different to the extent that any experience of total otherness will give you a different perspective from which to think about our seeming "reality." Yeah, it's a bit difficult to say whether "mental illness" is biological, cultural, or perhaps a bit of both. (Or neither?) I think that if members of the general populace stumbled onto this website or flipped through your book, they might find many of the ideas "a bit odd," to say the least.

Perhaps some people have visited the DMT space so often that they find it difficult to function in our everyday reality? I don't know.

If you do come across anything, I would be curious to find out more about such people - their experiences and perspectives.

[David Orange]

for what it's worth...

in the 'ORFEO dialogues' between terence mckenna and robert hunter, hunter remarks that he took dmt "a thousand times before receiving my emphatic cutoff notice"...he also mentions that all of this use was between 1967 and 1969.

i am not particularly a dead fan, and have never met robert hunter in person, but judging by his writing in the dialogues i would say that he is if anything, more together than the average person.

the dialogues are recommended reading, if you've not checked them out before. they should still be easy to find on the various mckenna websites. if anyone has trouble locating it, let me know. hunter's articulateness and insights regarding the dmt experience are wonderful and must-reads.

he also elaborates more on his receiving his 'cut-off notice'...wow.

[Awareness?]

My opinion on the matter is that these visions you had were in this damention every thing you hear feel and see is in you psyche or soul and nothing more i feel psychedelics give you a deeper awareness of your self and your surroundings. reality doesn't fluxuate your perseption does you can dive deep into reality observe the worlds govorning dynamics from a whole new angle almost like escaping in to reality and your mind. I feel to psychedelics and logic go hand in hand and we need to keep this perspective in perspective. DMT is fast and takes alot of understanding and devlopment, thats why i think you so full of questions on the experence understand you self and you will understand psychedelics

[El Eternauta]

Awareness:

You maybe right in some cases, but trust me I think my psychic is incapable of conjuring up these visions.
For example the visions I get from mushrooms I do feel many of the part of the soul, but the ones I got with DMT... o well if you are right I am in some serious problem or my mother never told me my father was an alien from dimension X smile.gif

[Nicole]

Thanks DavidO - I'd never even heard of those. I just found them online, though - I'll check them out today.

[daniel]

Awareness,

I agree with El Eternauta. There is no way my psyche - unconscious, subconscious, or whatever - had a hand in constructing the DMT realm. It is too other and too fully realized. I will go further: This insistence that so many people have on your perspective is, to my mind, a joke. We wish we were in the position ti maintain some kind of control over those higher realities of sentience, and the fact is, I suspect, quite the opposite: They control us - or can if they want.

[Halfglass]

Daniel: Yes, I was getting that (the feeling that reality is being "run" by something). I was taken on a long guided tour once, being filled with vistas and strange knowledge and at the end (it must've been a hour) the peak came and I felt it go by, my ego bouncing off its seat, and my "guide" (some type of Other) said "You have to get off here now." Then as I looked it was "forming" my bedroom walls for me. It was saying, "We will place you here now, but it could be anywhere." (Anylife!) For an instant I had a flashby of all the people I know, the friendships etc. where I live and on, and it wasn't my life! It was just a plot of some sort. I came to myself and the Other was just about finished constucting the world when it kind of looked over The Wall (the edge of my world) like the old "Kilroy was here" picture and I sensed it wink.

[ July 30, 2003, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Halfglass ]

[Awareness?]

Are cochessness is young the more we build and devlop this gift the more we can control it and find understanding of it and the rest of existence, time in my opinion is infenite we dont control this infenite but we control are frame of mind and are perspective open or closed answers dont come without questions.

[forteanajones]

Originally posted by Awareness?:
Are cochessness is young the more we build and devlop this gift the more we can control it and find understanding of it and the rest of existence, time in my opinion is infenite we dont control this infenite but we control are frame of mind and are perspective open or closed answers dont come without questions.Even though I have yet to try DMT I think I almost understood this.

[Halfglass]

David Orange: Can you give me some places to find Rober Hunter stuff? Is "ORFEO dialogues" in book form?

[David Orange]

http://www.levity.com/orfeo/

halfglass, that is the url for the orfeo dialogues. i don't believe that they've been published in book form.

i don't know much about robert hunter other than that he wrote lyrics for the grateful dead (whose name, incidentally, has it's origins in a dmt trip). in the dialogues, he mentions something about writing descriptions of the different types of his dmt experiences in his journal and memoirs, but i don't know if any of that stuff has been published or will be...

as i mentioned i am not much of a deadhead, and don't know much about hunter other than what's mentioned of him in dennis mcnally's recent bio of the band, but reading the dialogues he strikes me as being one amazing guy and a fantastic writer.

[Cosmic Rider]

quote:
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Originally posted by Awareness?:
Are cochessness is young the more we build and devlop this gift the more we can control it and find understanding of it and the rest of existence, time in my opinion is infenite we dont control this infenite but we control are frame of mind and are perspective open or closed answers dont come without questions.
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are minds are so limited at this stage of excitence but understanding are surroundings is as much of a key as are own mind this connection must have purpose as anything does i feel understanding is the tool or method of operation we must use to utilize are potential with out understanding it would be like being born in this world without a nessary part of your body like your hands for enstance your held back for but you still survive, ignorence is a disability and can be overcome to gain control by diving into are govorning dynamics.