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Risky Business
10-03-2002, 06:14 AM
I bought B.O.T.H. on Amazon, received it today, and just finished it. I
thought it was fantastic and crystalized many of the thoughts I have had
about psychedelics and society since 1986, when I first took mushrooms while lying in a tent in the middle of nowhere in Alaska. Up until that time, I had been a typical frat-boy beer drinker, and very occasional pot
smoker...so one mushroom experience changed me quite a bit.

In the ensuing years, I graduated from a top-10 university, got an Ivy
League MBA, worked at an investment bank, and became a successful asset
manager. It was alternately frustrating and fascinating to bust my butt
working and succeeding at these "mainstream" endeavors, while all the while
instinctively "knowing" that it was all part of a false and absurd constuct. Ironically, I really think my psychedelic experiences (I only took mushrooms twice, but these experiences were extremely important to me) actually
enabled me to succeed in this "absurd" mainstream path, because post-psychedlics I was able to, somewhat like Tom Cruise's character in "Risky Business", essentially say "what the fuck." I found that once I realized that the path I was pursuing in life was not nearly as important to me or to the world as I had grown up believing, I was essentially "freed"
into saying "what the fuck" and doing things...ANYTHING...balls out, without
the fear of failure. As much as the realization that it was perfectly fine to fail at something that was ultimately not that "important", part of the reason for this newfound freedom was a belief in the sanctity and supreme value of life, sensation, and experience that psychedelics imparted to me; the instinctive notion that whatever you do is worth doing well, since you only go around once--and briefly--in this life form.

I've often wondered how many others there are like me; people who've seen the other side and thus see absurdity in mainstream society every day, yet are able to utilize that experience as a psychic catalyst to succeed at
endeavors and function within societal constructs that one realizes are absurd and antithetical to typically spiritual pursuits. Or how many simply shunt their psychedelic experiences into the recesses of their minds, and for the rest of their lives quietly go about their mundane business, never to revisit that moment of awakening again until perhaps the moment of their death? Or others who are so profoundly changed by the experience that they could never again live a typically "straight" life, and spend the rest of their lives in typically spiritual pursuits such as the arts, religion, etc. And still others who are so changed that they move into a cabin in the middle of nowhere...both literally and figuratively?

There are some of the ideas I've been thinking about for the past 16 years, and I found your book both interesting and educational.

As an aside: I just saw the film "The Matrix" for the first time, and I was totally stunned. Much like your book, it crystalized many of the thoughts I've had for the past 16 years. If you have seen this, I would be interested to know what you thought of it.

djharry
10-08-2002, 06:10 PM
hey RB:
i was just about to e-mail daniel, with the subject line of "damn you". mainly because i feel i have no recourse but to continue this adventure which i had fooled myself into thinking i had already started, albeit from my safe 'sideline' position.

i can relate to your conundrum of whether there's any purpose to pursuing a 'normal' life, void of meaning.

with the preface of not having read many of the previous books on the subject, i will say that danny's book is a very important one.

oh i've read the requisite 'celestine prophecy', 'conversations with god', 'seat of the soul', 'alchemist', 'seven laws for spiritual success', etc. but i feel that they've been setting the stage for the next phase in my life.

i recently read 'secrets in the fields' about crop circles, by freddy silva, and i read it in one night. it also touches upon theories that the circles themselves are earth's response (or message) to humans. a friend also lent me the movie 'waking life', while another one told me i should watch 'donnie darko'.

i finished B.O.T.H. on my flight home last night and when i get to work today, on my desk is a gift from my younger cousin. a black obelisk with egyptian symbols all over it.

these signs simultaneously freak me out and excite me. having studied buddhism, i am a big believer in karma and things happening for a reason.

sorry for the long post, but i too am troubled by the thought of living diametrically opposed existences. (reminds me, you should also check out the movie 'existenz')

having only experienced pot, x (and k), hash and mild mushrooms, i feel the need to take the next step in my progression, though i am somewhat confused about where to start.

daniel
10-09-2002, 06:41 AM
Thanks, Risky Business and djharry, for these great posts. Here is a long-winded answer to some of the issues you raise.

My personal obsession lately is the fact that we are at a critical moment of history – really it is even beyond what we normally understand by "history," it is a critical juncture in the evolution of the human species. Not only because of the degenerate warmongering and extraordinary technologies of destruction now in the hands of the powerful - the ecological situation is also much worse than we generally let ourselves acknowledge. Arable land is turning to desert at the rate of 220,000 kilometers per year, global warming is accelerating, fossil fuels are quickly running out (the real impetus for the Iraq invasion). Our technologies are beginning to backfire on us – witness the rise of antibiotic-resistant "superbugs," etc. This is all because of a basic flaw in our thinking. Gregory Bateson recognized this in the 1960s and called it an "ecology of bad ideas" with the ability to propagate itself.

If I am correct that there is a spiritual reality, then we should be thinking about our situation in a much longer-term way. My perspective right now is very Anthroposophical, so when Risky Business writes:

"Once I realized that the path I was pursuing in life was not nearly as important to me or to the world as I had grown up believing, I was essentially "freed"
into saying "what the fuck" and doing things...ANYTHING...balls out, without
the fear of failure. As much as the realization that it was perfectly fine to fail at something that was ultimately not that "important", part of the reason for this newfound freedom was a belief in the sanctity and supreme value of life, sensation, and experience that psychedelics imparted to me; the instinctive notion that whatever you do is worth doing well, since you only go around once--and briefly--in this life form."

I find myself strongly disagreeing with his conclusions. First of all, it is quite possible that we incarnate on the Earth again and again, as Steiner suggests, so our actions in this realm influence not only our children’s world but our own future existences. Life is not just freedom – it is a kind of debt that must be paid, and there is work that must be done out of love. Another way of saying this is that recognition of freedom should become recognition of responsibility on a higher level. It is definitely not enough just to "protect your turf" and make $$ for your family. "Globalization" makes clear that the human world is one larger organism. A decision that a stockbroker makes at his terminal can lead to riots or famines in South East Asia just a few days later. As US citizens, we are responsible for the suffering that our policies cause around the world.

I went to this Central Park anti-war rally last week, and I was sad to discover it was organized by the Revolutionary Communist Party. The harsh voices of the old RCP are just not going to do the trick. We need people who have "made it" within the mainstream system to become fully aware of the horrors of the world situation, and invest their talents into working to save this planet, right now. They should realize they have to do it for their own karma, their own soul-development. Gurdjieff said that a soul was not something you simply had – it was something you had to work to acquire. When you realize that this must be the case, it takes precedence over any materialist goals.

Djharry writes: " i too am troubled by the thought of living diametrically opposed existences."

Shamanic experiences and psychedelic experiences can be great, but I think the better path right now would be a Yogic or Tantric approach to social transformation. That is the only way to link the opposing sides. We are clearly in a situation now where no real retreat or escape is possible. Therefore, we need to force a real and accelerated evolution in human consciousness.