Ayahuasca and enlightenment

[Nishanth]

hi, i was just wondering on this subject
since enlightenment is outside of the realms of time
not dependent on time at all
and Ayahuasca can take one outside of the "normal" time prison
can Ayahuasca be used as a tool for enlightenment? Or more properly,
can Ayahuasca itself take one directly to the state of enlightenment? If it is used properly? And if so, why do some people keep drinking it over and over again?

[Nishanth]

does the top of the head break open and you fly up towards light and truth?
a few times my head felt like it was going to be broken open but i resisted it

[Isaiah Mpski]

They must be ayahuascaoholics or have an unconscious desire to become a pigmy.
Same thing for lsd addicts- I thinkthey have an unconsciuos desire to become dumpster divers.
Screw you KJ,the Lord willing,for Ko'ing my posts.

[Thom]

Originally Posted by Nishanth

hi, i was just wondering on this subject
since enlightenment is outside of the realms of time
not dependent on time at all
and Ayahuasca can take one outside of the "normal" time prison
can Ayahuasca be used as a tool for enlightenment? Or more properly,
can Ayahuasca itself take one directly to the state of enlightenment? If it is used properly? And if so, why do some people keep drinking it over and over again?

Hello there. As I understand it, most ayahuasca healers (usually called curanderos) are not "enlightened" in the eastern sense. They seem to use the vine as a shamanic guide, or a tool, and they drink the tea repeatedly because it helps them to heal people, be they fellow tribe members or paying customers. They are not monks or boddhisatvas - just normal men and women. Just like the girl next door might be a respected poet, but there'd be no obvious differences about her, and you'd never know about her poetry unless you were into attending local poetry readings.

Some people in the west feel that ayahuasca is a useful ally - but they tend to use it for personal healing, or for enhancing creativity, or as a cleansing purgative, as far as I can tell.

Enlightenment may occur along the way, or it may not. I've heard that it is something that can't be grasped at. Perhaps even an enlightened boddhisattva would have recourse to ayahuasca, but what her reasons might be, who could say?

Fair fortune be yours,
Thom

[Nishanth]

i believe that ayahuasca can be used as a way to begin the awakening process for those that are asleep like me; is that a possibility? i hope it is
p.s. i believed in karma and reincarnation and i messed myself up with psychedelic drugs so i don't know what to believe anymore
i feel stuck this way

[Isaiah Mpski]

Yes you need to start taking a bunch of vitamins.IV if you can find a qualified doctor to do that.
I understand your position will pray for you for the next three days.
It will bring you out of the fog.

Dr John D. Son

[Nishanth]

and so enlightenment can happen thru ayahuasca?
thank you for praying for me
i wanna wake up i was supposed to be totally awake i used to meditate deeply as a child and knew the mysteries of the universe then people started giving m e drugs and ruin my life completely
im so afraid now of everything i can't do anything i have no life
and was told that ayahuasca can free my soul, free me from bondage

[Caprinardo Delirio]

the word "enlightenment" could really need some of it's own luminance if ever to be more than a brilliant joke. i see this word used so horrendously often that i sometimes literally read "prison".

did people just give you drugs without any engagement from yourself? that sounds a bit irresponsible.. you might also need to take better care of yourself.

i don't think what you need is some doctrine of "enlightenment" but if you're afraid, paralyzed etc, then ayahuasca could be helpful. remember that you must accept to be annihilated before you can be reborn. psychologically that is, suicide would be a gross misunderstanding!

i believe that you can and surely will "regain yourself" completely, if you crave it.

actually, i think that the best therapeutic method in the world these days is holotropic breathwork, which is a modern non-drug, but very powerful, shamanic method of self exploration and transformation of deep seeded traumas etc. look at www.holotropic.com and write or call them. i'm sure it will probably cost you as much as a trip to the amazon, but it's hard to find a decent shaman down there, and as far as i know you might still leave the amazon halfway transformed. that church you might hear about wont do it either. find a holotropic breathwork practitioner who lives not too far from where you are, and try that!

you can also try writing more about your problems, really state things as clearly and completely as you can, and i and the others here will do our best to understand and help you!

[Nishanth]

you mean if i just surrender totally i can be reborn completely? like past the who am i level of meditation into a way higher state? if i get past the visions and the colors and keep going really deep?

i tried ayahuasca and i liked it but i was afraid of what was going to happen next
i heard on a podcast that ayahuasca can take one to the highest state if you totally surrender
im so afraid of everything my heart has developed a knot
i heard on a starseed awakening video that i am a powerful cosmic being
surrender to being annihilated sounds scary what happens when you do that im afraid of what will happen to my body when i do that what if i stall in the middle of 'being annihilated' will my body go thru fire that sounds horrible
i made such horrible choices now i'm left here
i used to be in tune with the higher good now i'm not

[Isaiah Mpski]

You need some ect's.Only about 1k per treatment.
Doesn't hurt at all.Insurance will pay.
Imagine,waking up and not knowing who you are.
Could be enlightening.

[Caprinardo Delirio]

i don't understand all this questing for higher states.. aren't you looking for a way out of trouble?

higer states are just states.. it's more a matter of what you do with them when you get back down. living is still mostly done in ordinary consciousness, you know.

remember that you cannot ever truly get out of tune with the higher good, you can only think or feel that it is so. but part of you is "enlightened" and you can never escape this.

it might just be that you need to focus on living soundly.

like some zen pun goes: Someone asked a Zen Master, "How do you practice Zen?"

The master said, "When you are hungry, eat; when you are tired, sleep."

"Isn't that what everyone does anyway?"

The master replied, "No, No. Most people entertains a thousand desires when they eat and scheme over a thousand plans when they sleep."

there is alot of weirding out cosmic new age nonsense that can sidetrack you and make you forget just as essential sides of yourself as the fact that you are god in disguise.

how and why are you afraid and miserable?

a lot of people set out to find god because they just don't want to do the dishes or to make the slightest mistake...

[cbeech]

Hello everyone,

I just returned from Brazil where I did ayahuasca 5 times. In the final session I had the breakthrough experience which could be likened to enlightenment. I was completely dissolved. I was like the drop of the ocean that becomes the entire ocean. The top of my head did feel broken open.


It is impossible to describe but I can relate some of what I saw. While in that state "I" was just a part of the kaleidoscope of god's mind, oneness. Saying that "I" had an experience sounds selfish or self aggrandizement. It is truly humbling. What I call "I" is just one of millions of jumping off points into the oneness. While in that place their was the realization that we are always there - a cosmic "duh". It is hard to fathom from this perspective. It is hard to adequately describe. It is a matter of focus of consciousness.

As far as what to do with that realization in this dimension of reality - I don't know for sure. So maybe the "enlightenment" is not complete. I certainly don't worry about things as much. I am more patient. I am more loving. Physical death is nothing but of course I still have an aversion to the pain immediately preceding it. I am still subject to physical laws but it is part of the game - nothing wrong with that. We are there now. It is all there is. Our world is just one facet of the cosmic game or Lila.

I hope what I have written at least makes a little bit of sense.


Chris in Boise

[drew hempel]

Try sitting in full-lotus. If you have permanent connection to pure consciousness then you should be able to sit in full-lotus fairly easily and for as long as you like. Just sit in half lotus for maybe 20 minutes then try full-lotus.

You should be able to feel a magnetic bliss in your pineal gland and you should be able to flex your pineal at will, causing your vagus nerve to pulsate and you to shoot electrochemical and electromagnetic energy out of the pineal gland.

Let me know and thanks for the report back -- sounds awesome.

[ayahuascakhan]

Ayahuasca is a sacred medicine that gives you access to the spirit realm. You can be shown these spirits and become them, because you are apart of them. This sacred medicine also is apart of a much larger picture. Partaking in ceremonies you heal on 3 levels: 1) psychologically 2) biologically 3) Spiritually. You explore your subconscious and truly are presented with your most deep seeded traumatic events. Emotional scars that have been hidden deep within can be healed. It physically purges out the negative energy and toxic buildup. Shamans open the spiritual realm and their icaros mixed with this ayahuasca in your being, heals on many specific different levels. Ayahuasca is the mother and her plant children are amazonian herbs and healing plants that combined in a family, will cure anything. Una de gato, Noni, and there are several other plants that when fused all together can heal you tremendously.

Ayahuasca enables you to transcend your body and be taken into another realm/dimension. Shamans are not like normal people in the sense that they truly know how the universe functions. The natives knew that by being at one with the spirit of the planet, that you could be shown and transported into higher dimensions. I feel that you can become "enlightened" in the sense that you are awaken to your God head. If you combine all the ancient techniques and beliefs; sitting still in the yogi position and breathing deep, can naturally take you there to awaken your divine self. It's all what you do with the message and what you have taken from your "enlightenment". Doing something to change the world and keeping our mother earth alive. I believe in re-incarnation, and I know that if you are in tune with the universe and transcend in this life; than your next life will be in the cosmos at one with everything. However, I feel if you haven't figured out or lived to your fullest than you are re-incarnated back on earth.

Ayahuasca and enlightenment are two different things, but they go hand in hand. Just like any other ancient healing method. I feel holotropic breathwork can also give you access to different realms and deep deep within yourself. In my core I know that our sun gave our prophets messages. The sun is God. We are rays of the sun vibrating at different frequencies, but made of the same cloth in the fabric of time. Ayahuasca can awaken you to your true potential.

I feel it is possible to function in this society and still be completely in your God state that can constantly enlighten you and show you messages if you can pick up on them. Slowing down time by watching your breathe and always breathing deep. I know being in this state constantly can have it's consequences, unless you can master it. You breathe in lots of different energies and I know by breathing out your intentions people will feel you. Not passing thoughts into people, but just breathing out positive intentions and energy. Surpassing our former stage by being in tune with breathe. I know now that heaven and hell is on earth and so is dark and light within each of us. It's how we wish to create our world and the bible, torah, quran, many ancient texts all point that this will play out. Choices. Each moment each breathe there is a choice. If we resist a certain thought or emotion/energy than it can overcome you by fear. Fear of having that impulse. Fear is our demon and by acknowledging we all fear death than I feel we can truly transcend and live life like each moment means more than what it may seem. So I know that enlightenment is choice. This choice whether you see it or not is accessible.

[drew hempel]

Yeah I recently read harvard Dr. Mark Plotkin's book on Shamanic herbs as medicines -- he describes his ayahuasca trip near the end of the book. It was definitely a powerful experience for him --

I encourage you to study the Bushmen culture where 90% of the healers were men that didn't use drugs and the Bushmen culture represents 90% of modern human culture (from 10,000 BCE to 80,000 BCE).

The drugs are electrochemical while the healing relies on electromagnetic energy.

[craazyman]

Yes, I read that book last year. Very good. It especially struck me that certain diseases seem to be tribal or cultural specific. Curious that shamanic methods were successful at treating certain of these culture-specific ailments, which we westerners don't suffer from or even recognize and may not even be able to measure with our laboratory equipment, blood analysis, microbe detection, etc. Likewise, the shamans admitted that western medicines treated other diseases which they couldn't cure.

All this goes to the holy road to the secret gate of knowledge. It's like when people with split personality disorder have a situation where one personality suffers from a disease, like diabetes, whereas the other personality does not. When the personalities change, the disease either appears or goes away.

We are only scratching the very surface of this ocean, but I suspect it will be where the next great leaps in consciousness are.

[drew hempel]

http://dailygrail.com/node/6599

[craazyman]

Interesting interview. Good job by Reality Sandwich.

I also happened upon a text interview on that same web sight of Jacques Vallee, one of the very, very few truly sane people studying the UFO phenomenon. He is the "Voltaire" of the phenomenon. LOL.

I have read Narby's books and found them interesting to be sure. But I am not sure where he is going with all this stuff and I find his self-proclaimed "Marxism" a little light weight (although maybe it was a youthful indiscretion). Even as a college kid I was never that naive. He seems a little sentimental still, even though I applaud very much his admonition about the "dark" side of all it all. Yes, in Peru it's the serpents and in Russia its the Gulag. Anyway, a few minor irrelevancies are these. He's a very smart guy doing interesting cutting edge work and thoroughly engaged in it. Maybe I'm just a little jealous.

[drew hempel]

http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/vallee-ufos/

[drew hempel]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0313345422?...89&camp=211189

[Isaiah Mpski]

CM,I suspect all the hell going on in California is the result of a conspiracy of Scientolgists who have captured a 'spaceman' and he is quoting my manuscript(The Scientology Messiah) to them.
What is next?Hell of a Winter back east beore the Great Juan cometheth to California.