Bwiti tribe

Gideon · 06-09-2007, 06:14 PM

OK, here is my concern. after reading the part of the book "breaking open the head" about the Bwiti tribal leader being such an asshole, demanding money after the agreed upon price was reached, then wanting Mr. Pinchbeck to have great visions so that he can give him more money but not for the spiritual experience. Is this tribe really spiritually evolved after using iboga? With peyote and some indians they seem to be of a much more spiritual nature. I'm a bit ignorant since I have not used Iboga (as much as I would love to) because it is near impossible to obtain in Utah and my efforts to find a way only lead to the demand of thousands of dollars in rehab clinics in Canada, Mexico, and the Carribean.
So does anyone know if the Bwiti tribe has any significant spiritual knowledge to offer?

Caprinardo Delirio · 06-13-2007, 02:11 AM

excellent point gideon, i think that's where the notion of "spiritually evolved" start to show it's own fallacy. it definitely shows that having transpersonal experiences doesn't necessitate moral and social intelligence aka compassion and openness.

but then there's the notion of the radically different type of society we're talking about. can't really allow ourselves to translate or interpret too straightly on the motivations, right? probably they were poor, have enemies, have the whole mythic religious order to perpetuate..

but the real question is if spiritually evolved really goes very far beyond the realization of the self, which shouldn't be made as exclusive as it's been made to, especially in the west.

i don't believe for instance that spiritual practice in the form of yoga or meditation makes you more compassionate and more peaceful. i think you yourself do, just by deciding, however you came to that decision, to live a life of compassion and caring, loving, or whatever that may be, and gradually, hopefully, if the environment isn't against you, you will probably succeed.

still many peaceful, compassionate people, i wouldn't necessarily call spiritually evolved. maybe just spiritually sensitive. as opposed to spiritually ignorant. it's the whole "evolving" meme i guess i'm a bit fed up with inside spiritual systems of today.

a lot of people translate their quest for spirituality in materialistic meaning measured terms and methods that again and again prove fatal for your mental health. like the notion of enlightenment, where a lot of people have had their materialistic assumption of knowing and knowledge tried up to it in such way that they believe that enlightenment entails answers to all questions, which is of course preposterous to think that some experience of moksha or satori should enable you to answer questions of socio-political issues or something of that nature. it may influence thinking is all the ways that it needs, with a new understanding of the unity of the world, ending possibly catastrophic types of reasoning, but what is spiritual knowledge?

drew hempel · 06-24-2007, 06:17 PM

Gideon the Bwiti tribe relies on music to guide the trips of the iboga. In fact the same is true with other drugs. I did salvia while using "music" healing as well -- the FULL-LOTUS tetrahedron pyramid power.

I'm convinced that music is what makes reality "spiritual" -- by which I mean the principles of natural resonance.

Jeremy Narby's Cosmic Serpent takes this angle by emphasizing the spiral connection -- music works by the "spiral of fifths."

There are 12 music nodes along the outside of the body, just as there are 12 notes to the music scale, derived from the Yin (3/4) and Yang (2/3) of music found world wide!

All cultures use the 1-4-5 music intervals for healing but in the West the intervals are "contained" in irrational geometry, thereby greatly diminishing the spiritual power.

I have lots online about this music as spirituality stuff. There's no "higher" or "lower" just resonance from formless awareness into different levels of amplitude and frequency, although those are western terms.

The Tai-Chi symbol is the Cosmic Serpent symbol is the Pythagorean Tetrad is the Ohm.

We can listen to the formless awareness as the natural overtones that are the source of sound within out heads. The sound turns into ultrasound, creating heat that ionizes the electrochemicals (emotions) which then transforms into electromagnetic fields and finally into light-information.

We exist within the formless awareness which self-organizes by the principles of music.

This is from Daniel's SALON article on iboga:

"Sometimes the percussive music became deafening in the low-ceilinged temple. At other times the Bwiti's songs seemed awesome in their beauty. The rhythms seemed organic, as if the music was itself an emanation of the plant's essence."

Now if Daniel had gone for the Pygmie Initiation -- deeper into the jungle -- it probably would have totally music with no drugs. 90% of human history, going back to 80,000 BCE, the Bushmen used only music for healing-trance power (electromagnetic blissful heat!!)

Kiko · 06-30-2007, 06:31 PM

so where can u get this type of music. or learn to play it. any downloads?

Dna · 06-30-2007, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gideon

Is this tribe really spiritually evolved after using iboga?

Psychedelics are an effective tool. That's all. We can do lots of different things with a tool like this, including leverage our own personal growth.

Dna.

drew hempel · 07-01-2007, 03:39 AM

Yeah get this C.D. -- http://www.springforestqigong.com/ec...cat=250&page=2

It's cheesy new age music but that's not the point -- qigong master Chunyi Lin has put really high harmonics on this c.d. which you can only hear once your "inner ear" channels open up.

How do they open up? Because the C.D. is actually the "small universe" practice -- the foundation of all chakra opening. There are 12 "notes" along the outside of the body:

1) stomach 2) bladder 3) bottom of torso 4) tip of tail bone 5) small of back 6) between the kidneys 7) top of spine 8) base of skull 9) top of skull 10) forehead 11) neck 12) heart.

This c.d. guides you through those 12 "notes" of the body -- and as you "play the music" of your body then you open up the energy channels. With each pass of the "body scale" your channels collect more and more energy.

Yin and Yang are actually 3/4 -- the Perfect 4th Music interval of Pythagorean music and 2/3 the Perfect 5th, thereby creating the 12 notes of the "body scale."

http://www.kheper.net/topics/Taoism/..._of_light.html

If $11 is too much for the C.D. -- you can get the SMALL UNIVERSE clearance tape -- for $3!!

http://www.springforestqigong.com/ec...cat=259&page=1

stelio · 09-10-2007, 08:40 AM

first i must apologise for my english,so,i would try to answer your question cos i use iboga since many years,and i know bwiti,and nganga from the bwiti.....
I've met many healers from many traditions...i 've drank ayahuasca many times,alone and with famous chamans...i followed a iboga initiation,thirty spoons of iboga rootbark...three days of travel across the hyperspace...i met my ancestors,crossed galaxies,had revelations about the origin of mankind....iboga is an organic technology,the most complex technology i've ever seen...but you must understand that bwiti have many path:
-dissumba path:the cosmic bwiti...i fell in the dissumba during my initiation
-missoko path:therapeutic bwiti:the one daniel knew..
-and another secret path...cos bwiti is really a secret thing,some years ago you should be killed by sorcery if you talked about it...but time change and the bwiti spirit choose to be open to the world....
Another thing,pygmie initiation is effective only for pygmies cos their way of life,(they're connected to the spirit world,maganga as they say in gabon) is different than ours...pygmies iboga initiation are often ineffective for white people...not enough iboga to open the spirit world(in fact the right side of the brain...the place where the spirit live)

drew hempel · 09-11-2007, 07:17 AM

Hey thanks -- http://www.lightmediation.com/blog/p...uary/bwiti.pdf

stelio · 09-11-2007, 09:50 AM

strange synchronicity...i've been initiated by the nganga which is on your pdf document...thank's.
his name is Mallendi,in fact not his name,his kombo(bwiti name)

jezebelle · 09-20-2007, 04:44 PM

"Yeah get this C.D." sayith drew I did, says jez

all so interesting especially the right brain stuff. and the sound tones and their connections real biwi. i hear you drew on that sound stuff.

I met a monk who insulted his caretakers and he asked for more brew, he woke up maybe days later eating clouds from the air and then seeing 2 tree spirits. (his story not mine) He says he'll be more patient, next time.

hugs, jezebelle

drew hempel · 09-22-2007, 06:47 AM

Rock on. I was sitting in full-lotus yesterday and a Tibetan Nun donated money to a street beggar Native Indian. haha.-

posypusher · 07-20-2008, 07:28 PM

enlightenment will be on a planetary scale and will only occur when we totally dissolve the illusion that we are all separate?

Isaiah Mpski · 09-12-2008, 03:43 PM

God only shines on half the world at a time.Long live the Monroe Doctrine.

suebee · 02-13-2009, 10:58 AM

[quote=Caprinardo Delirio
i don't believe for instance that spiritual practice in the form of yoga or meditation makes you more compassionate and more peaceful. i think you yourself do, just by deciding, however you came to that decision, to live a life of compassion and caring, loving, or whatever that may be, and gradually, hopefully, if the environment isn't against you, you will probably succeed. ....]

hey cap where are you? i just read this. imo you are dead wrong about meditation or yoga not leading to peace and/or compassion. it does it does it does.

06-09-2007, 06:14 PM	#1
Gideon Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 11	Bwiti tribe OK, here is my concern. after reading the part of the book "breaking open the head" about the Bwiti tribal leader being such an asshole, demanding money after the agreed upon price was reached, then wanting Mr. Pinchbeck to have great visions so that he can give him more money but not for the spiritual experience. Is this tribe really spiritually evolved after using iboga? With peyote and some indians they seem to be of a much more spiritual nature. I'm a bit ignorant since I have not used Iboga (as much as I would love to) because it is near impossible to obtain in Utah and my efforts to find a way only lead to the demand of thousands of dollars in rehab clinics in Canada, Mexico, and the Carribean. So does anyone know if the Bwiti tribe has any significant spiritual knowledge to offer? __________________ Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth. ~Albert Einstein

06-24-2007, 06:17 PM	#3
drew hempel Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: minneapolis Posts: 1,618	Gideon the Bwiti tribe relies on music to guide the trips of the iboga. In fact the same is true with other drugs. I did salvia while using "music" healing as well -- the FULL-LOTUS tetrahedron pyramid power. I'm convinced that music is what makes reality "spiritual" -- by which I mean the principles of natural resonance. Jeremy Narby's Cosmic Serpent takes this angle by emphasizing the spiral connection -- music works by the "spiral of fifths." There are 12 music nodes along the outside of the body, just as there are 12 notes to the music scale, derived from the Yin (3/4) and Yang (2/3) of music found world wide! All cultures use the 1-4-5 music intervals for healing but in the West the intervals are "contained" in irrational geometry, thereby greatly diminishing the spiritual power. I have lots online about this music as spirituality stuff. There's no "higher" or "lower" just resonance from formless awareness into different levels of amplitude and frequency, although those are western terms. The Tai-Chi symbol is the Cosmic Serpent symbol is the Pythagorean Tetrad is the Ohm. We can listen to the formless awareness as the natural overtones that are the source of sound within out heads. The sound turns into ultrasound, creating heat that ionizes the electrochemicals (emotions) which then transforms into electromagnetic fields and finally into light-information. We exist within the formless awareness which self-organizes by the principles of music. This is from Daniel's SALON article on iboga: "Sometimes the percussive music became deafening in the low-ceilinged temple. At other times the Bwiti's songs seemed awesome in their beauty. The rhythms seemed organic, as if the music was itself an emanation of the plant's essence." Now if Daniel had gone for the Pygmie Initiation -- deeper into the jungle -- it probably would have totally music with no drugs. 90% of human history, going back to 80,000 BCE, the Bushmen used only music for healing-trance power (electromagnetic blissful heat!!) Last edited by drew hempel; 06-24-2007 at 06:27 PM.

09-12-2008, 03:43 PM	#13
Isaiah Mpski Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Eufaula,Oklahoma Posts: 3,563	reality God only shines on half the world at a time.Long live the Monroe Doctrine.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

06-13-2007, 02:11 AM	#2
Caprinardo Delirio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 822	excellent point gideon, i think that's where the notion of "spiritually evolved" start to show it's own fallacy. it definitely shows that having transpersonal experiences doesn't necessitate moral and social intelligence aka compassion and openness. but then there's the notion of the radically different type of society we're talking about. can't really allow ourselves to translate or interpret too straightly on the motivations, right? probably they were poor, have enemies, have the whole mythic religious order to perpetuate.. but the real question is if spiritually evolved really goes very far beyond the realization of the self, which shouldn't be made as exclusive as it's been made to, especially in the west. i don't believe for instance that spiritual practice in the form of yoga or meditation makes you more compassionate and more peaceful. i think you yourself do, just by deciding, however you came to that decision, to live a life of compassion and caring, loving, or whatever that may be, and gradually, hopefully, if the environment isn't against you, you will probably succeed. still many peaceful, compassionate people, i wouldn't necessarily call spiritually evolved. maybe just spiritually sensitive. as opposed to spiritually ignorant. it's the whole "evolving" meme i guess i'm a bit fed up with inside spiritual systems of today. a lot of people translate their quest for spirituality in materialistic meaning measured terms and methods that again and again prove fatal for your mental health. like the notion of enlightenment, where a lot of people have had their materialistic assumption of knowing and knowledge tried up to it in such way that they believe that enlightenment entails answers to all questions, which is of course preposterous to think that some experience of moksha or satori should enable you to answer questions of socio-political issues or something of that nature. it may influence thinking is all the ways that it needs, with a new understanding of the unity of the world, ending possibly catastrophic types of reasoning, but what is spiritual knowledge?

06-30-2007, 06:31 PM	#4
Kiko Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37	so where can u get this type of music. or learn to play it. any downloads?

07-01-2007, 03:39 AM	#6
drew hempel Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: minneapolis Posts: 1,618	Yeah get this C.D. -- http://www.springforestqigong.com/ec...cat=250&page=2 It's cheesy new age music but that's not the point -- qigong master Chunyi Lin has put really high harmonics on this c.d. which you can only hear once your "inner ear" channels open up. How do they open up? Because the C.D. is actually the "small universe" practice -- the foundation of all chakra opening. There are 12 "notes" along the outside of the body: 1) stomach 2) bladder 3) bottom of torso 4) tip of tail bone 5) small of back 6) between the kidneys 7) top of spine 8) base of skull 9) top of skull 10) forehead 11) neck 12) heart. This c.d. guides you through those 12 "notes" of the body -- and as you "play the music" of your body then you open up the energy channels. With each pass of the "body scale" your channels collect more and more energy. Yin and Yang are actually 3/4 -- the Perfect 4th Music interval of Pythagorean music and 2/3 the Perfect 5th, thereby creating the 12 notes of the "body scale." http://www.kheper.net/topics/Taoism/..._of_light.html If $11 is too much for the C.D. -- you can get the SMALL UNIVERSE clearance tape -- for $3!! http://www.springforestqigong.com/ec...cat=259&page=1

09-10-2007, 08:40 AM	#7
stelio Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2	first i must apologise for my english,so,i would try to answer your question cos i use iboga since many years,and i know bwiti,and nganga from the bwiti..... I've met many healers from many traditions...i 've drank ayahuasca many times,alone and with famous chamans...i followed a iboga initiation,thirty spoons of iboga rootbark...three days of travel across the hyperspace...i met my ancestors,crossed galaxies,had revelations about the origin of mankind....iboga is an organic technology,the most complex technology i've ever seen...but you must understand that bwiti have many path: -dissumba path:the cosmic bwiti...i fell in the dissumba during my initiation -missoko path:therapeutic bwiti:the one daniel knew.. -and another secret path...cos bwiti is really a secret thing,some years ago you should be killed by sorcery if you talked about it...but time change and the bwiti spirit choose to be open to the world.... Another thing,pygmie initiation is effective only for pygmies cos their way of life,(they're connected to the spirit world,maganga as they say in gabon) is different than ours...pygmies iboga initiation are often ineffective for white people...not enough iboga to open the spirit world(in fact the right side of the brain...the place where the spirit live)

09-11-2007, 07:17 AM	#8
drew hempel Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: minneapolis Posts: 1,618	Hey thanks -- http://www.lightmediation.com/blog/p...uary/bwiti.pdf

09-11-2007, 09:50 AM	#9
stelio Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2	strange synchronicity...i've been initiated by the nganga which is on your pdf document...thank's. his name is Mallendi,in fact not his name,his kombo(bwiti name)

09-20-2007, 04:44 PM	#10
jezebelle Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 366	"Yeah get this C.D." sayith drew I did, says jez all so interesting especially the right brain stuff. and the sound tones and their connections real biwi. i hear you drew on that sound stuff. I met a monk who insulted his caretakers and he asked for more brew, he woke up maybe days later eating clouds from the air and then seeing 2 tree spirits. (his story not mine) He says he'll be more patient, next time. hugs, jezebelle

09-22-2007, 06:47 AM	#11
drew hempel Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: minneapolis Posts: 1,618	Rock on. I was sitting in full-lotus yesterday and a Tibetan Nun donated money to a street beggar Native Indian. haha.-

07-20-2008, 07:28 PM	#12
posypusher Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Washington State Posts: 13	enlightenment will be on a planetary scale and will only occur when we totally dissolve the illusion that we are all separate?

02-13-2009, 10:58 AM	#14
suebee Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,361	[quote=Caprinardo Delirio i don't believe for instance that spiritual practice in the form of yoga or meditation makes you more compassionate and more peaceful. i think you yourself do, just by deciding, however you came to that decision, to live a life of compassion and caring, loving, or whatever that may be, and gradually, hopefully, if the environment isn't against you, you will probably succeed. ....] hey cap where are you? i just read this. imo you are dead wrong about meditation or yoga not leading to peace and/or compassion. it does it does it does.